MBB: St. Louis Intercollegiate Athletic Conference

[allamericanredhead]

the first year MO high schools went to allowing second place district teams into the statefootball  playoffs, three of the six who won state titles were district runner ups and the previous year would not have even made the playoffs. Point: you play the hand delt you.

[metaljacket]

to try to attempt the answer GC panther raised earlier on why the CCIW is so much better then the SLIAC...

Money! The SLIAC simply does not have any money. Many schools in the SLIAC cannot afford full time coaches, while teams in the CCIW have full time assistants. Obviously not all but some do. Most have full time SID's, not sure how many the SLIAC has but I would assume 1 or 2 if any. From what I could gather at Spalding, the coaches in the SLIAC also have other jobs to fill like SID, compliance, facilities, etc...

To go along with the money issue, if you were to look at the facilites it would be very apparent. I have been to some campuses in both leagues but not all. Take IWU for example which was brought up earlier. Their rec center is better then ANYTHING I have seen in the SLIAC. I believe Webster baseball plays at a minor league stadium but after that, the worst field I have been to in the CCIW is better than all the baseball feilds I have seen in the SLIAC.

Kids will go where the resources are and the CCIW has the resources. Also as someone mentioned earlier, reputation plays a big role in this. I bet most people on this board never even heard of Spalding before they joined the conference. But all of you have heard of North Park, Carthage, IWU, North Central...etc....

Money, reputation, and resources are why the CCIW is so superior

[allamericanredhead]

u hit right on the head. it is all about money. look at wash u. other than scholarships, they are running d1 level program, with di resoueces. noway to compete with that. always thought that fc had a bit of a conference  advantage there. lee controled the purse strings and fc men always seem to have the better equipment, travel budget ect ....than most sliac schools.

to try to attempt the answer GC panther raised earlier on why the CCIW is so much better then the SLIAC...

Money! The SLIAC simply does not have any money. Many schools in the SLIAC cannot afford full time coaches, while teams in the CCIW have full time assistants. Obviously not all but some do. Most have full time SID's, not sure how many the SLIAC has but I would assume 1 or 2 if any. From what I could gather at Spalding, the coaches in the SLIAC also have other jobs to fill like SID, compliance, facilities, etc...

To go along with the money issue, if you were to look at the facilites it would be very apparent. I have been to some campuses in both leagues but not all. Take IWU for example which was brought up earlier. Their rec center is better then ANYTHING I have seen in the SLIAC. I believe Webster baseball plays at a minor league stadium but after that, the worst field I have been to in the CCIW is better than all the baseball feilds I have seen in the SLIAC.

Kids will go where the resources are and the CCIW has the resources. Also as someone mentioned earlier, reputation plays a big role in this. I bet most people on this board never even heard of Spalding before they joined the conference. But all of you have heard of North Park, Carthage, IWU, North Central...etc....

Money, reputation, and resources are why the CCIW is so superior

[Denny McKinney]

It's called "Fundraising". And he learned from the best. Dr. Dunham and Dad raised enough money that the DSAC was paid for before the first tip - off.

On the gym wall you see Mabee gymnasium. There are two Mabee Gymnasiums one on the campus of FU and Oral Roberts. A retired nun. Now president of a small catholic college. Flew to Tulsa, Ok. Spent 45 mins on the Oral Roberts campus. Left with a six figure check to breakground. A catholic asking the Mabee Foundation for money. I love that story.

You have the Red Scheondiest golf tourney and the Coach's Classic golf tourney. Those aren't bake sales. Steve Lohr of AB Lorh Distributing, returned to school and was the oldest D3 player in the country. Besides Red's wife you have the wives of some pretty big business men. All Wash U grads.

Fundraising helps teams travel and pay for facilities and such. FU Has the DSAC for Men and Women's Basketball. Men and Women's volleybal. All other fields are leased and have to be paid for.

Every team at FU has the equal chance to fundraise. Some do travel better. It's the ones that do the best, that travel the best.

But it doesn't change the fact FU is a bottom feeder when it comes to endowment. FU has gone the longest time with most all partime coaches. That's changing slowly.

Hey this all started just in 89 when FC had 303 students

[hopefan]

On the gym wall you see Mabee gymnasium. There are two Mabee Gymnasiums one on the campus of FU and Oral Roberts. A retired nun. Now president of a small catholic college. Flew to Tulsa, Ok. Spent 45 mins on the Oral Roberts campus. Left with a six figure check to breakground. A catholic asking the Mabee Foundation for money. I love that story.

FYI... My daughter attended William Jewel over in Independance... their athletic complex was the 'Mabee Center'.

[hopefan]

Mac defeats Prin, 93-75.... no boxscore yet... but that sews it up for Greenville claiming the 4th spot in the tourney....  and if Webster beats Westmin tonite, it pretty well sews up the matchups...

Unfortunately family took precedence over hoops last night, and I did not go to see the Prin-Mac game....   off to Fulton tonite though.....

[Into_the_Blue]

On the gym wall you see Mabee gymnasium. There are two Mabee Gymnasiums one on the campus of FU and Oral Roberts. A retired nun. Now president of a small catholic college. Flew to Tulsa, Ok. Spent 45 mins on the Oral Roberts campus. Left with a six figure check to breakground. A catholic asking the Mabee Foundation for money. I love that story.

FYI... My daughter attended William Jewel over in Independance... their athletic complex was the 'Mabee Center'.

Jewell is in Liberty.  I was going to say they had the Mabee center too until I saw your post, Hope.

As Hope said, not much on the line tonight in the other games, but Webster vs WC is huge.  WC has to win if it wants to host.  They should be ready. 

[allamericanredhead]

Mac defeats Prin, 93-75.... no boxscore yet... but that sews it up for Greenville claiming the 4th spot in the tourney....  and if Webster beats Westmin tonite, it pretty well sews up the matchups...

Unfortunately family took precedence over hoops last night, and I did not go to see the Prin-Mac game....   off to Fulton tonite though.....

math is not my stornger suit, but isn't Fontbonne still mathamatically in the race? They could go 7-9 and so could Prin. If GC strikes out in their last three, wouldn't that be a three way tie?

Hey, I'm not saying it will happen, but even the Cubs this time of the year have mathamatical hope.

[allamericanredhead]

I have always said McKinney could recruit, so give him his due. Take the years of 05-07 and the talent that went through FC is mind boggeling. Here are six that quit, Branch, Cortez Parker, Kirkpatrick and a big white kid from out of state. That kid I believe was Newcomer of the Year. I thought he should have been POY. Division I body who could score from anywhere. Potentially the best player I have ever seen in the SLIAC. Played one year. Kirkpatrick left FC after one year and had a decent JC year. Lost track of him after that. Cortez Parker might have been the biggest waste ever. Played parts of two seasons. Watched him play in high school and couldn't believe he ended up at FC. Also a DI level footballer. Branch made it through three years and plus. Great shooter. Had issues, but Lee Mac put up with him as long as they were winning. Take those four and anybody you find on the street (including Dennis ) and I would put those five up aganist any starting five ever in the SLIAC.

Now throw in Kinnard Davis and Antonio Holland, who both played a year in the same span. Both were DI retreads and "street free agents", who ended up under the guidance of Father Flannigan McKinney. Holland was a problem from the word go but Davis could play.

I have not even mentioned the big three who did make it through four years, McCoy, Sturandt and Foggerty. And the tourney MVP, Fourney.

What a 10 man roster. Rival any in DIII for on the hoof talent! Now if McKinney could have just gotten them to stay and play together.

[hopefan]

big white kid was White... not from out of state, but out-state... like Salem mo area? and he was VERY good... until he met up with Wash U in the tourney.......if just he had stayed, with him Fogerty and Storandt around the basket.... wow....

[Pat Coleman]

On the gym wall you see Mabee gymnasium. There are two Mabee Gymnasiums one on the campus of FU and Oral Roberts. A retired nun. Now president of a small catholic college. Flew to Tulsa, Ok. Spent 45 mins on the Oral Roberts campus. Left with a six figure check to breakground. A catholic asking the Mabee Foundation for money. I love that story.

FYI... My daughter attended William Jewel over in Independance... their athletic complex was the 'Mabee Center'.

Hardin-Simmons also.

[allamericanredhead]

holland might have been the only player i have ever seen who never passed the ball, and i mean NEVER! any assist he had was his first and probably an errant shot that didn't draw iron. That is one McKinney should have never taken.

[allamericanredhead]

On the gym wall you see Mabee gymnasium. There are two Mabee Gymnasiums one on the campus of FU and Oral Roberts. A retired nun. Now president of a small catholic college. Flew to Tulsa, Ok. Spent 45 mins on the Oral Roberts campus. Left with a six figure check to breakground. A catholic asking the Mabee Foundation for money. I love that story.

FYI... My daughter attended William Jewel over in Independance... their athletic complex was the 'Mabee Center'.

Hardin-Simmons also.

u guys are going to p1$$ dennis off!

[hopefan]

Allow me to open another can of worms.... 

Where has the SLIAC commissioner been this year?   

Now I know he was at Coach McKinney's program, while I was at a different game, but I've have been to a lot of games this year and have not seen him....

or is he avoiding me?   

He's a nice guy... hope all is OK

[Denny McKinney]

Not upset AARH. Good information to know. I have been under the impression there where two Mabee Gymnasiums, Maybe at that time. Maybe the Mabee folks fashioned those particular words in the presentation. So now I know there are two Mabee Centers.

Do the other two have any religious affiliations?

Cartez Parker... My Dad and Coach Porter did everything possible to help that young man. In the end... You can't make a kid like school. Cartez is a welcome and frequent site on campus. Still has jets.

Trevor White. Our Mountain Man from Salem. He told Dad the 2nd week he was going home. Home sickness at it's worst. See the now Mrs. White was 3 years younger. Married at 20. Happy and has grizzly adam's beard. Gets to a few games each year. You could never pick him out. Went to work at the hospital were his folks worked. He had a hellva Sliac Tourney.

Kennard Davis. Just saw at Brian Grasle's superbowl party. Still would of had one year left. GPA no proble
. $2300 a problem. They purge a man that close to diploma over that amount? Come on. How many thousands had they already received from state and federal. But he was treated like every student. If you have never met him your missing something. Great man. Good father. Still can play. Had 36 against our own STL Pioneers.

Antonio Holland. Hired an agent immediately after the season. Went off to seek his fortunes in pro ball. Never heard from again. Entertaining. But not from this planet. Nice kid. Felt like a drive by siting.

Josh Branch. A topic not up for discussion. More this story then you know. Closed.

A walk down memory lane.

AARH - Please. Coach McKinney or Lee McKinney are your two choices. I know he's earned that respect.