MBB: St. Louis Intercollegiate Athletic Conference

[hopefan]

Received word on my Question regarding games with Logan

"The NCAA did some research on the status of Logan's athletic programs and determined they operate as a " competitive club" which means they are not a countable opponent. The games do count towards teams' maximum permissible contests but the win/loss and stats do not count. The game, as you state, is viewed as an exhibition.

We (SLIAC, NCAA and our schools) are unsure whether Logan has changed the status of its athletics programs or whether the games have been incorrectly counted in the past."

A shame, as two wins come off the SLIAC docket, and some players lose some nice stats....

[hopefan]

Interesting game tonite    Eureka at Rose Hulman... Eureka has been playing very well... a real feather in the cap if they can compete with a very good Rose Hulman Team... Eureka good win last night beating Robert Morris Springfield, 96-90.... Mark Lessen 26 and 13, Fritsch 24 and 10, Kindred 9 boards and 6assists

[hopefan]

Another interesting stat line from the Eureka - Rob Morr Spring game is that of a Eureka Sub, DT Thornton..
He gets 7 minutes, goes 5 for 9 from the field, 1 for 2 from the line, 6 rebounds!!!   WOW... that is a lot of production for 7 minutes!!! 

This is the first I noticed him in a box score, though in review, he has gotten in to most games... but when i look on the Eureka roster.. DT is 6'6", 295, offensive lineman on the football team... obviously very mobile for that size.. a kid like this could be a force around the hoop if he could get say 15 to 20 minutes.... He too is a junior, jc transfer this year.....
Like I said, I'm very anxious to see Eureka!!!!

[Gregory Sager]

Received word on my Question regarding games with Logan

"The NCAA did some research on the status of Logan's athletic programs and determined they operate as a " competitive club" which means they are not a countable opponent. The games do count towards teams' maximum permissible contests but the win/loss and stats do not count. The game, as you state, is viewed as an exhibition.

We (SLIAC, NCAA and our schools) are unsure whether Logan has changed the status of its athletics programs or whether the games have been incorrectly counted in the past."

A shame, as two wins come off the SLIAC docket, and some players lose some nice stats....

Not a shame, Hopefan, but a blessing in disguise. Perhaps the NCAA's disallowing the wins and the stats will motivate the SLIAC coaches to finally stop scheduling Logan Chiropractic. It's ridiculous that SLIAC teams are still playing the back-crackers after all these years. The league struggles for respect, but it's never going to get any as long as it keeps playing Bible schools, Logan Chiropractic, Concordia Seminary, etc.

(Speaking of which, it'd be great if the NCAA would also disallow games played against Concordia Seminary, which is a graduate school.)

[allamericanredhead]

This is the 2nd game in a row I've seen Fontbonne come from far behind to make things close at the end.... makes for real crowd pleasers, though some disappointment that one or two turnovers or missed shots made the difference... Coach Shaefer has already instilled a new attitude with this team, no quit, really INTO the game, rather than the sad I only care about me attitude that prevailed last season....and that attitude has stretched even to the assistants, who seem MUCH more involved...

Here's the ultimate compliment... ALL America RED...whereever you are... check this team out.... inferior talent right now, but the kind of hustle we old guys like.... Fontbonne player,,, keep up the drive, after Christmas, and you will get some wins in conference....

thanks hope. i am still around and did see on FU game. I liked the hustle and hopefully the revolving door at FU has stopped. too many kids brought in to play bb and none seem to ever stay around to graduate. i have heard that the new coach has already cut some dead wieght. his true evaluation will be five years down the road when he gets his own kids in and see how many are four year players and get a degree from FU.

I hear that things are not good at FU. Lots of internal problems. Hope the new coach can stay above the sewer there.

[allamericanredhead]

FREE DENNIS!!!

Come back Dennis and so will I. Hopefan can't do it on his own. What do ya say?

[allamericanredhead]

how many posts do i need before i can't start giving myself negative karma points? i am down to only minus 18.

[John Gleich]

Received word on my Question regarding games with Logan

"The NCAA did some research on the status of Logan's athletic programs and determined they operate as a " competitive club" which means they are not a countable opponent. The games do count towards teams' maximum permissible contests but the win/loss and stats do not count. The game, as you state, is viewed as an exhibition.

We (SLIAC, NCAA and our schools) are unsure whether Logan has changed the status of its athletics programs or whether the games have been incorrectly counted in the past."

A shame, as two wins come off the SLIAC docket, and some players lose some nice stats....

Not a shame, Hopefan, but a blessing in disguise. Perhaps the NCAA's disallowing the wins and the stats will motivate the SLIAC coaches to finally stop scheduling Logan Chiropractic. It's ridiculous that SLIAC teams are still playing the back-crackers after all these years. The league struggles for respect, but it's never going to get any as long as it keeps playing Bible schools, Logan Chiropractic, Concordia Seminary, etc.

(Speaking of which, it'd be great if the NCAA would also disallow games played against Concordia Seminary, which is a graduate school.)

Concordia Seminary has a team?  I know Trinity International already has a team too... but do you think I'd get some more eligibility if I wrustled up some other TEDS guys and called up the SLIAC?  It'd be a bit of a haul from Deerfield (and I'm pretty out of shape...) but do ya think it would be worth a shot?!      

[hopefan]

Received word on my Question regarding games with Logan

"The NCAA did some research on the status of Logan's athletic programs and determined they operate as a " competitive club" which means they are not a countable opponent. The games do count towards teams' maximum permissible contests but the win/loss and stats do not count. The game, as you state, is viewed as an exhibition.

We (SLIAC, NCAA and our schools) are unsure whether Logan has changed the status of its athletics programs or whether the games have been incorrectly counted in the past."

A shame, as two wins come off the SLIAC docket, and some players lose some nice stats....

Not a shame, Hopefan, but a blessing in disguise. Perhaps the NCAA's disallowing the wins and the stats will motivate the SLIAC coaches to finally stop scheduling Logan Chiropractic. It's ridiculous that SLIAC teams are still playing the back-crackers after all these years. The league struggles for respect, but it's never going to get any as long as it keeps playing Bible schools, Logan Chiropractic, Concordia Seminary, etc.

(Speaking of which, it'd be great if the NCAA would also disallow games played against Concordia Seminary, which is a graduate school.)

Concordia Seminary has a team?  I know Trinity International already has a team too... but do you think I'd get some more eligibility if I wrustled up some other TEDS guys and called up the SLIAC?  It'd be a bit of a haul from Deerfield (and I'm pretty out of shape...) but do ya think it would be worth a shot?!      

Seriously Point, I heard Concordia Seminary had a guy playing several years ago that appeared to be in late 40s, early 50's...   It is laughable that some SLIAC schools play these guys and Logan and STl Christian and STL pharma  (mainly Greenville and Principia... Fontbonne use to, but has removed them over the last decade).. and I rant each year on it when i "rate" the SLIAC Schedules....  They did receive some amount of plus  print this year though when a pharma kid went for over 40 and they beat a half decent Greenville squad.

[buncheriffic]

The way I read this, there are two arguments:
1. SLIAC is a lower tier Division III Conference.
2. It is laughable for SLIAC teams to play inferior programs; this hurts their credibility.

If we accept these points, it would be laughable for a DI to play a lower tier team and especially a SLIAC Team. I'd love to hear the boards' thoughts on Loyola, Southern, Tulane (11-1), Michigan (Top 25), Baylor (Top 25), Murray State (Top 25), SLU, Western Illinois, etc. I am not going to spend the afternoon clicking through schedules to find more.

In addition to SLIAC schools playing these lower caliber bible/other schools, how about the scholarship programs in STL? Take a look at their schedules, and you'll find the same thing. Related, why shouldn't Blackburn play the STL Christian Colleges of the world? They are more similar (financially, enrollment, resources, etc) to them than they are to Washington University. If the SLIAC is so awful, why do the top conference schedule them. There are any number of reasons. Regionality? Pad their stats? The same reasons all teams evaluate when they schedule.

In my opinion, it doesn't matter who you play during the year. It matters how you do in the tournament. Until the SLIAC can win a game there, it doesn't matter who they beat in the regular season. We could argue about how to best succeed in the tournament, sure. I've voiced my opinion here before in support of the Bunch/Izzo mindset - tough teams prepare you for tough competition. Sometimes that works, sometimes it doesn't. A lot of teams like the cupcakes; Bosko's squad had theirs against Martin Luther - I like that, dessert first. Augustana had theirs in STL against Wisconsin Lutheran. Middlebury's games against Johnson State, Southern Vermont, and Johnson & Wales looked real tough - combined to beat them by 138 points.

Finally, let's forgo the agism. I'm not sure how a 40 year old player means a team has to be junk. If an athlete has eligibility, let him play. Take a look at Tim Frisby, a former wideout for South Carolina. That's a D1 program taking on a 40 year walk-on who couldn't play right out of high school because he became an Army Ranger instead. Can we get your age inspector to finally close the book on Albert Pujols's real age? How old is Danny Almonte? I'd hate for people to be guessing all of our ages!

[GC Panther 01]

 whatever happened to Rutger Neece who was on the GC roster last year?

[hopefan]

whatever happened to Rutger Neece who was on the GC roster last year?

I was told that Coach Barber cited 'Burnout' in the preseason coach's meeting...  a shame... good player....

[Gregory Sager]

Received word on my Question regarding games with Logan

"The NCAA did some research on the status of Logan's athletic programs and determined they operate as a " competitive club" which means they are not a countable opponent. The games do count towards teams' maximum permissible contests but the win/loss and stats do not count. The game, as you state, is viewed as an exhibition.

We (SLIAC, NCAA and our schools) are unsure whether Logan has changed the status of its athletics programs or whether the games have been incorrectly counted in the past."

A shame, as two wins come off the SLIAC docket, and some players lose some nice stats....

Not a shame, Hopefan, but a blessing in disguise. Perhaps the NCAA's disallowing the wins and the stats will motivate the SLIAC coaches to finally stop scheduling Logan Chiropractic. It's ridiculous that SLIAC teams are still playing the back-crackers after all these years. The league struggles for respect, but it's never going to get any as long as it keeps playing Bible schools, Logan Chiropractic, Concordia Seminary, etc.

(Speaking of which, it'd be great if the NCAA would also disallow games played against Concordia Seminary, which is a graduate school.)

Concordia Seminary has a team?  I know Trinity International already has a team too... but do you think I'd get some more eligibility if I wrustled up some other TEDS guys and called up the SLIAC?  It'd be a bit of a haul from Deerfield (and I'm pretty out of shape...) but do ya think it would be worth a shot?!      

I'll talk to my peeps at North Park Theological Seminary and see if NPTS will host a tourney that'll include Concordia (MO) and TEDS. That way, you won't have to travel so far.

Seriously Point, I heard Concordia Seminary had a guy playing several years ago that appeared to be in late 40s, early 50's...   It is laughable that some SLIAC schools play these guys and Logan and STl Christian and STL pharma  (mainly Greenville and Principia... Fontbonne use to, but has removed them over the last decade).. and I rant each year on it when i "rate" the SLIAC Schedules....  They did receive some amount of plus  print this year though when a pharma kid went for over 40 and they beat a half decent Greenville squad.

I have less of an issue with a SLIAC team playing St. Louis Pharmacy. Sure, the Eutectics are nobody's idea of a powerhouse, but at least SLCOP is a legit, bachelor's-degree-granting, four-year undergraduate institution and a member of both a respected national organization (the NAIA) and a long-established league of four-year schools (the KIAC).

The way I read this, there are two arguments:
1. SLIAC is a lower tier Division III Conference.
2. It is laughable for SLIAC teams to play inferior programs; this hurts their credibility.

No, not inferior programs ... programs that represent institutions that do not match the four-year undergraduate profile of NCAA schools, or whose rosters, scheduling, etc., do not match NCAA standards for four-year-undergraduate competition.

Concordia Seminary is not a four-year undergraduate institution. It's a graduate school.

Logan Chiropractic does offer four-year, bachelor's-degree programs in addition to graduate degrees. However, its basketball team clearly does not match the NCAA"s criteria for four-year-school competition with regard to its roster makeup, and hence it's considered to be a "competitive club program" by NCAA standards rather than a legitimate varsity program.

I will retract what I said about Bible schools. Many Bible schools are two-year institutions, but both St. Louis Christian College and Lincoln Christian University, the two Bible schools that are on SLIAC schedules this year, offer four-year programs that terminate in bachelor's degrees in addition to their traditional two-year Bible-school programs. Nothing wrong with playing them in terms of institutional profile; the problems with playing them are that, like St. Louis College of Pharmacy: a) they're not very good; and b) SLIAC schools should be seeking to play D3 schools whenever possible. But those are completely different matters.

[y_jack_lok]

That's interesting about SLCOP. I had no idea. Here is a link to their men's hoops page: http://www.stlcop.edu/campuslife/mbball.asp.

[y_jack_lok]

Below is from the ODAC board:

Here is a new DIII basketball ranking system that makes some adjustments to Ken Massey's:

https://sites.google.com/site/d3basketballindex/

According to this system Principia has the 23rd toughest strength of schedule against D3 teams. They have played Girnnell, Rhodes, Wash U, Blackburn, and Eureka. Makes me think there is a flaw in the way these calculations are made. But I'm no statistician.