MBB: St. Louis Intercollegiate Athletic Conference

[BLA]

Word, I agree that there isn't a problem with trips. It's always fun to change up scenery.  I was just stating that since FU just came off a rough week against two national powers that more time spent in the gym practicing and getting ready for conference would be better time spent than in airports and beaches. After reading posts by FC about the Wash U and Elmurst game, I was lead to believe that if one or two plays would have gone in favor of FU that they might have won both or at least a split against highly ranked teams.  I don't think teams can fix those things that may have cost them the game by flying to Hawaii and playing a meaningless  scrimmage game and hanging out on a beach.

I personally have never been a fan of trips. The focus wasn't there in regards to the teams that I played with.  Plus we played better teams than us and as a result came home with three losses in a week.  Wasn't good for team morale. I can't imagine the lack of focus on basketball in Hawaii for some of my teammates and myself with all the distractions. Plus how much can you expect them to focus on basketball when families are shelling out that kinda cash for their son to go.  But that is just my opinion.

But again I wouldn't pass up the Hawaii trip if I could afford to go.  It would be a great experience.

Well the REAL season will be in full swing after this weekend. Here's hoping that the Gorloks can get in a groove here.  Will not be easy. It all starts with Blackburn. Leave it all out there boys! 

[hopefan]

note Mac beaten badly by Benedictine - I know HCAC has his hopes up, but Mac continues to disappoint outside of conference play.  Still though, the playing field may level out with conference opponents.

All you 'youngsters' stay safe tonight - Chinese takeout and a DVD for Mr and Mrs Hopefan  -  really anxious for Saturday's games!!!!

[HCACBBALL]

Hope, I will keep my hopes up!!! If you look at the box score you will see that two or three key players played very few minutes.  Not going to say why but Coach Creal is a Coach that believes in doing the right thing and not just over looking things to win.  The team will be better for it. 

[distantobserver]

This is my first posting - however, I read the board alot.  I just want to put my 2 cents in concerning the FU trip.  TEAM is not only on the court but it is also something that needs to be "grown"  OFF the court.  yes, Hawaii is long way to go, however, if the young men really wanted to go it would happen - yes the fund raiser really does help and it is a matter of CHOICE those players did not go. 

I have witnessed first hand how FU benefits from a "group" trip...you know the saying  "what happens in Hawaii stays in Hawaii"   I especially think the trips are great for the freshmen.  I think that too much of the discussion is on that the players have to pay - this is DIII!  But there is nothing like getting to know your team mate when you and 2 other players share a hotel room!  BLA - honestly do you think that those games are not on their minds?  Perhaps your concentration was not soley on b-ball when you were playing...I know FU's is!

Get off FU and the trip - whatever they are doing seems to be working - they are producing some fine young people out of the university. 

Ok off my soap box.  I hope I have not offended anyone and wish everyone a Happy New Year and I look forward to seeing all the GREAT young men and women play some b-ball.  And of course I am counting on  - back to back to back!   

[hopefan]

While I am looking forward to the first round of conference games, I also am looking to Monday's Fontbonne - Grinnell game

Titan Q has a lengthy post in the CCIW room on Grinnell (they play Wheaton on Saturday)  -   I would encourage all to read it - for the uninitiated, we are in for a real treat as far as seeing something totally abnormal when compared to the normal pace of basketball.

  I have borrowed some of Grinnell's stats from Titan Q's post, and one or two comments....

- Avg FG attempts per game = 93 (Wheaton opponents avg = 53)

- Avg opponent FG attempts per game = 69 (Wheaton avg FGA = 54)

- Avg 3-pt attempts per game = 64 (Wheaton opponents avg - 16)

- Avg opponent 3-pt attempts per game = 9 (Wheaton avg = 13)

- Avg turnovers forced per game = 32 (Wheaton average = 12)

- Avg points per game = 127 (Wheaton opponents average = 54)

- Avg opponent points per game = 106 (Wheaton average = 80)

- Grinnell players who average over 5 minutes per game = 14

- Wheaton players who average 5 minutes per game or more, Wheaton = 8


When you play Grinnell, you are forced into a completely different style of game - it is absolutely nothing like you're used to playing, and there is really nothing you can do to prevent that from happening.  Even if you take care of the basketball (and keep turnovers under, say, 20), The System still creates a pace that is as fast as you'll ever see because at some point in a possession, Grinnell will just give you a free layup in order to get the ball back.  Unlike playing any other opponent, there really isn't much you can do to control the tempo vs Grinnell...they dictate everything in that regard.

I'm curious as to how Coach Mckinney and staff have prepared for this game - maybe running those hills in Hawaii will help!!!!

[y_jack_lok]

Ditto everything TitanQ/hopefan say about The System. When it says "Grinnell will just give you a free layup in order to get the ball back." it means they are planning on hitting enough three-pointers to overcome any advantage the opponent might get by making more two-pointers.

I saw The System played twice by Emory & Henry (coached at the time by hopefan's late friend Bob Johnson) against my alma mater, Randolph-Macon. The second of those games E&H was on fire from behind the arc in the first half and built a lead of nearly 30 points. The lead was in the low 20s by halftime, but it was too much to overcome in the 2nd half. In the first of those games R-MC won in part because they had a better team that year, and in part because the premise of The System (making a lot of 3 pointers) didn't work for E&H.

And when TitanQ/hopefan say "there really isn't much you can do to control the tempo vs Grinnell...they dictate everything in that reagard" it's because this is not just an offensive style of play. They also play high pressure, fast paced defense. No falling back into a normal half court defense. They hound you the entire length of the court from the moment you try to inbounds the ball until you either make a hoop, a turnover, or get fouled or commit a foul.

Having said that, I think Wheaton will beat them. As for Fontbonne, we know their guards can run and gun, and Chris Forrest can hit from outside. It will be intersting to see how Fogarty and Storandt fare. They could have the opportunity to get a lot of close range shots given the wide open nature this game is likely to take. FUs bench is going to have to be on the floor a lot more than usual in this game. Should be fun.

For anyone interested, I suggest you go to the CCIW room and read TitanQ's excellent and more detailed description of The System. After reading it, I'm not feeling so confident about my prediction that Wheaton will win. TitanQ knows the CCIW teams well and he has pinpointed areas of weakness for Wheaton in playing against  The System.

[Gregory Sager]

Having said that, I think Wheaton will beat them. As for Fontbonne, we know their guards can run and gun, and Chris Forrest can hit from outside.

Running and gunning, and Forrest's outside shooting, shouldn't matter. If you take outside shots rather than layups against Grinnell, you're playing right into the Pioneers' hands. In fact, there have been coaches that have told their players before playing Grinnell that anyone who attempts a three-pointer will be promptly taken out of the game and left on the bench to cool his heels and ponder his own stupidity (obvious exceptions, such as the end of a half, apply).

You beat Grinnell by taking exactly what the Pioneers give you: Layups, and lots of them. You also have to focus upon boxing out against the mass Pioneer pileup under your basket after a Grinnell miss and by protecting the ball. That means passing more than dribbling, and passing with both poise and purpose; i.e., not panicking against all of those traps and reach-ins.

For anyone interested, I suggest you go to the CCIW room and read TitanQ's excellent and more detailed description of The System. After reading it, I'm not feeling so confident about my prediction that Wheaton will win. TitanQ knows the CCIW teams well and he has pinpointed areas of weakness for Wheaton in playing against  The System.

Wheaton will win, even with star center Andy Wiele out with a stress fracture in his foot. Wheaton has excellent guards (All-American Kent Raymond among them), and it plays a smart and disciplined brand of ball. Grinnell's System allows the Pioneers to be competitive with two or three good players and a boxcar full of less-than-average players, but it's not a foolproof equalizer. If it was, Grinnell would be a Final Four team every year and coaches would be falling all over each other to install the System themselves. Grinnell will beat teams of equal or lesser talent every year, and the System allows them to upset more talented teams more often than would otherwise be the case, simply because the System is so alien (unless you're a MWC team that gets to see it twice a year) and is so hard for an opponent to prepare for in practice. But talent almost always wins out, just as it does in any other form of basketball, and Wheaton has considerably more of it than does Grinnell.

[y_jack_lok]

Thanks for those insights Sager. I have also understood that the team with the greater talent will usually prevail over teams (the few that do) which play the system. That is why I said initially that Wheaton would win. I saw Wheaton play at Webster on December 10th, and they are definitely a talented team. But Titan Q's observations had me second guessing my prediction. Not that he was predicting a Wheaton loss, he was just pointing out factors that might make this a challenging game for them.

[hopefan]

As I follow Maryville's box scores, I can only shake my head as to the diversity in minutes and lineups...    The good news is that several names that had been missing for a game or two have reappeared in the two games out west  - in the first night, Jake Baechle, Jarred McCoy, Eric Grunewald all reappeared after Missing the S. Indiana debacle.  On the other hand, Matt Baker, who had solid stats until the Southern Indiana game, gets 7 minutes vs Finlandia?   The next night, he gets 6 minutes vs John Jay despite going 3 for 3 from the field....

I think back to my playing days and I could not have played my best knowing that a subpar outing would virtually bench me until someone else screwed up, yet that seems to be the theory Coach Rogers uses.  I haven't seen all the new faces at Maryville - but am anxious to get over there on Saturday (I've been saving my change just in case FC is right about that $6 entry charge - wonder if they have a senior citizens rate?)

I'm surprised the room hasn't had more activity with the league games about ready to start ....  I guess not many really care..... it's a shame - this is a great place to exchange thoughts.

[hopefan]

Incidently, I just noticed that Grinnell LOST to Waldorf in Mid December  -  Fontbonne had beaten Waldorf up in the Bible tourney in Chicago.....

[y_jack_lok]

I'm surprised the room hasn't had more activity with the league games about ready to start ....  I guess not many really care..... it's a shame - this is a great place to exchange thoughts.

It's the economy, hopefan. Words are alot more expensive than they used to be. 

[HCACBBALL]

I see Mac lost to Wesmin, They must be the real deal.  What else happened in SLIAC action? 

[pantherpride06]

Panthers picked up a win against Fontbonne... what in the world???  Go Panthers!!

[y_jack_lok]

Webster wins at Blackburn 79-67. A 14-2 run by Webster to end the game broke a 65-65 tie with just under 3 minutes left. Some nice offensive play by Nick Jones and Tyler Tieman on the left block in the low post kept the Gorloks in the game in the latter stages of the 2nd half. Free throws by Ryan Turk plus good devensive rebounding in the final minutes sealed the win.

An earlier post by BLA suggesting that Webster was settling for too many jump shots seems to have been an valid observation. Getting the ball down low and finishing late in the game was a key part of this win.

[sully309]

Maryville zapped Eureka 77-72.  Maryville led by 16 (34-18) in the first half thanks to some great shooting by Kyle Winters, who made 5 treys in the 1st half and 6 total. Eureka rallied back to take the lead with still over 15 minutes to play and it was back-and-forth from there. This is exactly the kind of game Eureka has been losing all season.  There seems to be a 5-7 minute stetch in every game when the Red Devils forget to defend and it's been killing them. This time, it came at the start of the game.

Maryville led by 2, got a big shot from Jason Simmons, then benefitted from a huge charge called against Eureka with 1:21 left. Steinke pulled Maryville through in the 2nd half with 15 points to finish with 23. Winters also had 23.  Zasada had a great game for Eureka with 28 points and 9 rebs. Wildenradt (one of Hopefan's and my favorites) played very well again with 11 pts, 5 ast and 0 turnovers. He was a tad off with his three-point shot unfortunately. There seemed to be the same amount of fans there as last year despite the $6 charge, though the EC fans I talked to were none too pleased. Of course, most admitted afterwards, that the game was worth the price of admission despite the loss.

It's gut-check time for Eureka with a road game at Blackburn Wednesday. The loser will be 0-4 and...well...I don't need to go into the grimm details of a possible 0-4 start do I?