MBB: St. Louis Intercollegiate Athletic Conference

[pantherpride06]

The Grinnell System:  I'm not sure if you can put basketball value on the student-athlete and if it makes them better players or not.  If they go to Grinnell, they know the system they are going to run.  Whether they want to become better basketball players or not.  It's like going to Indiana when Knight was coaching...  those student-athletes knew what they were getting into with Knight as coach.

I haven't seen it live but would love to.  I'd like to see Redlands as well (because they run something similar, or have in the past.) 

The from whoever regarding fcnews:  As much as fcnews stirs up on here, he's a great contributor to the site.  I also know he's dealing with some personal issues (family and such) as this moment.  Please, in good taste and sportsmanship, drop the crap on him please.

Tonight at HJ Long:  Greenville (3-0) welcomes Maryville (3-0) to see who's real and who's not.  I cannot fathom that Greenville will not come out and have a great showing at home.  Barber's boys will come out firing on all pistons.  I truly believe these boys are ready to get the monkey off their back and win the SLIAC or at least get into the tournament.  Still have a long road to go, but I think Greenville (fingers crossed) are headed in the right direction.

The team has two outstanding leaders in LaPhonso Ellis and Ben Cochran and a supporting cast of great guys from top to bottom.  Key for the Panthers...

Do not take your foot off the gas peddle!

[juniormint]

Good point Panther!  The kids who go to Grinnell know thats the style the want to play.  Im sure most of them could play other places in D3 as well, or elsewhere. 

I do wonder however about high school kids who have no choice and are in that system.  I guess its all relative to how hard the kid wants to improve himself on defense. 

Should be a good matchup between the Panthers and Saints.  Im sure the Panther crowd will be into it as always; tough place to play. 

[juniormint]

I do however think its early and have to disagree that tonight will show who's real and who's not.  Anyone can have an off night in the SLIAC and I don't think this game is an automatic "in" (in terms of team is for real and will be in the top 4 the whole way) to the tournament, but I do think it will be a big confidence booster for the winner. 

[Gregory Sager]

I haven't seen it live but would love to.  I'd like to see Redlands as well (because they run something similar, or have in the past.)

Redlands abandoned the System after the 2006-07 season. Grinnell is currently the only D3 men's team that uses it.

Good point Panther!  The kids who go to Grinnell know thats the style the want to play.  Im sure most of them could play other places in D3 as well, or elsewhere. 

Actually, the opposite is true. Aside from obvious objections (such as the three players hopefan mentioned: Bobby Long, John Grotberg, and David Arseneault), most of the Grinnell roster consists of marginal players, many of whom were no great shakes on their high school teams. A large percentage of them could not play at most other D3 schools. This is one of the reasons why Coach Arseneault designed the System in the first place.

Grinnell had a difficult time recruiting prior to his arrival, due to its stringent academic requirements and the school's rural location. What he did was to substitute quantity for quality in terms of the roster. The System requires 15-18 players rather than the usual 8-10 utilized by a typical team. All of those Grinnell players come in and out of the game in 45-second shifts of five, running pell-mell for all 45 seconds that they're on the floor, and they're specifically trained to focus on the aspects of the game upon which the System is based (three-point shooting, crashing the offensive boards, and trapping defense). This allows him to plug in marginal players who would never see the floor if they were at, say, St. Norbert or Lawrence or Carroll, and make use of them. It also helps with recruiting, since a prospect knows that he'll play at Grinnell even if he's not all that good.

One of the great things about the System is that it has made a virtue out of mass participation, something that you don't really see much in sports, and it has at least somewhat reduced the need to load up the Grinnell roster with blue chips.

[juniormint]

Good point Panther!  The kids who go to Grinnell know thats the style the want to play.  Im sure most of them could play other places in D3 as well, or elsewhere. 

Actually, the opposite is true. Aside from obvious objections (such as the three players hopefan mentioned: Bobby Long, John Grotberg, and David Arseneault), most of the Grinnell roster consists of marginal players, many of whom were no great shakes on their high school teams. A large percentage of them could not play at most other D3 schools. This is one of the reasons why Coach Arseneault designed the System in the first place.[/quote]

I did say "play" but I guess what I meant was most of them could probably be on a lot of D3 squads.  Not the elite teams in the nation but teams that are mid level D3 schools.  I've seen a lot of D3 teams with pretty marginal players who probably weren't stand outs in high school and may not have even played too much. 

All in all good point, I learn more about the "system" every day.  Thanks

Any news on any of the games tonight anyone?  Westminster beat Lincoln by 14. 

[pantherpride06]

I'm dying...  I'm trying to find a score for the Greenville/Maryville game... anyone have anything?

No one at Greenville answering the phone or updating websites.

[pantherpride06]

No Score from Greenville, but I know I'm told that Maryville won by 2.

[y_jack_lok]

Webster beats Fontbonne in 2 OTs. Final score was 87-83. Very exciting game. I'm sure hopefan will provide lots of details when he is able to.

[pantherpride06]

Just a little more coming in on the Maryville / Greenville game.  I'm told Greenville is up 2 points with under :30 to play and Maryville converts on the 4 point play to win by 2 ( reminiscent the Larry Johnson 4 pt play when the Knicks beat my Pacers at The Garden in the 98 Eastern Conference Finals...)

[Razor Back]

Has Fontbonne lost six straight?
If so, how could that happen?
I would expect them to bounce back and contend, but I'd like to know if this was just a series of tough games where they came up short - or if there are other issues involved, such as injuries, etc.

Razor

Back

[hopefan]

Razor, I'll write about the Webster game over lunch time - but injury, or missed games for other reasons, has not been a factor for Fontbonne- starters and reserves have remained the same - After playing great ball vs Wash U and losing in the last 3 minutes, they lost to Elmhurst, Rose Hulman, Greenville, Grinnell, and Webster  -  and they'll have to be at their best to beat Maryville on Saturday.  I don't put the blame on any player, that's for sure - there has been no let down, no discontent (at least visible to an outsider like me), the only new starter, Chris Forrest has become the most reliable player on the team, the bench, in limited minutes, has performed reasonably.  They simply haven't come up with enough big plays lately to win....

[y_jack_lok]

No injuries to Fontbonne that kept anyone from suiting up and all their top players were in the game. Several players who played against Grinnell on Monday did not see action against Webster. Perhaps the Fontbonne players could have been feeling some residsidual fatigue after the barn burner against Grinnell and its "system". However, I'm sure they wouldn't want to use that as an excuse, as we know these guys are very well conditioned.

And yes, after winning their first six Fontbonne has lost their last six.

[BLA]

WOW!!!! What a huge win that is for the Gorloks.  Congrats boys.  I didn't get to go and I'm still kicking myself for not making it so I'm hoping for a breakdown from any in attendance since the new SID over at Webster isn't as quick to get the boxscore up on the website. What's up with that???

Razor, in regards to your questions about Fontbonne...I believe the main guns are healthy but who knows they could be playing banged up.  They are all tough kids.  But I attribute this slump to one of the toughest stretch of games and travel that has ever been experienced by any SLIAC team.  

Fontbonne's "Hell week" and prolonged to present time.....

1) Was right there with former #1 team and defending national champs  up until the end. Played there guts out and came up short like so many have before against the Bears. As proof of how well they played they received  top 25 consideration.

2) Played tough against Elmhurst who was #10 at tip off.  Again coming up short.  Taking another emotional blow to the jaw.  

3) Probably came out flat and lost to Rose Hulman a couple days later.

4) Travelled to Hawaii and for players and people not used to travelling that in itself can knock some bounce out of your legs. Not good leading up to a few days before a tough Greenville team who has a knack for playing Fontbonne tough.

5) Then played in a game against Grinnell on Monday that must have been the most physically drainning game that those boys have experienced.

6) had to turn around from that game and play their biggest rival at Webster on Wednesday who needed this game to stay in the hunt.

7) let's not forget that they are the favorite to win the conference and conference tourney.  Night in night out they take everybody's best shot.

This team has to be mentally and physically drained.  But I'm more than confident that they will get their second wind and start playing like they did to begin the season.  

Looks like Westminster has emerged as the early leader. But they started out like this last year and faded at the end. Will history repeat itself???

I'm intrigued by this Greenville team. Looking forward to seeing them play.  

Sorry to hear about Mac's misfortunes.  I think they would have been a team to reckon with if they would have kept the pieces together.  

I'm not counting Eureka out just yet....

From what I heard about Blackburn they are way better that last year.  GOOD!!! I like when the conference gets a team deeper.

Maryville is playing well right now.  Look out.  

[fcnews]

Haven't been on the site in quite sometime. I don't see myself as a regular for the near future.

Couple of thoughts:
I echo almost all of BLA's statements. The Grinnell game was a like running a marathon. I know two players that had a hard time walking afterwords. The crowd really enjoyed the game and it received a bit of media attention. Was nice to see all the H.S. players and fans (that I've never seen at a SLIAC game before) enjoy the show. It's a shame another date could not of been available for the two teams.

Coach A, from Grinnell, said he had been wanting to bring his team to St. Louis for sometime but the other three DIII teams in town refused to play him. So for those who enjoyed it you have FU to thank.

On last nights game: I told Steve Hrdlicka I never wanted to see a player graduate more then him. Very tough kid and always has a great game against FU. This was the usual FU v. WU war and the fans were not dissapointed by the excitement of two overtime games.

One game note. Fouls were 29-12 in WU favor. Fontbonne never got into the one and one in regulation. FU was out scored by 15 points from the stripe. Hard to beleive the pounding under the FU goal did not result in Fogerty shooting more FT's. But, if that is the way the game was called Webster took advantage of what was available. FU had it's chances but came up short.
Kudos to Forrest and Lovette.


Six losses in a row is tough to swallow. But the sun came up today.

Yjak I really appreciated your kind comments last nite. You'll never know what a lift it was for me at the moment. Your a great man.

Good luck to all the teams down the stretch.

[hotshot_8617]

Fontbonne has the same problem they always have; no depth and they have no interest in playing any defense.

Lovette finally got to play some last night. I have never understood how he is used. Every time I have seen him play, he has looked like a world better. Wanta bet he never gets off the bench on Saturday? You can't play three kids 40 minutes a game and the other two 35 and think it will  not hurt you. There is some talent off the bench, you could see it aganist Grinnell. But then last night, they all sit and the same five play the whole game.

The officiating last night was fine. i didn't think that is a factor and FU needs to stay away from that angle.

Going to Hawaii without your whole club to play a scrimmage and then having a big conference game within 48 hours of the jet lagging trip back; was poor scheudling. Playing Grinnell in a non-conference game, with the style they play, smack in the middle of three tough conference game, was not smart. I think both of these factors are hurting Fontbonne right now, and both siturations could have been avoided.

I still Fontbonne is the best team in the SLIAC and will win the tournament. Are they a top 25 team as FC was preaching earlier in the year? No way. They may not even, right now, be a top team in the SLIAC, but I do think they have too much talent to not come out on top in the end.