MBB: St. Louis Intercollegiate Athletic Conference

[JAdaPrince]

I also look up the rule. Just didn't get to a computer in time. The call could of only been a 10 second backcourt call.

Well, the ball was rolling awfully slowly up the court, but I don't think 10 seconds had transpired, though I could be wrong. I don't know how the refs are supposed to signal a 10 second backcourt violation. The signal I saw was one hand in the air with the fingers spread apart, which led me to believe he was calling a five second in-bounds violation. Also, doesn't the 10 second backcourt count start once a player in bounds has touched the ball? Which would suggest that it couldn't have been a backcourt violation in this case since the ball had not been touched in bounds before the whistle was blown.

Of course this question is not important regarding Saturday's game as the outcome was not close enough for it to have made any difference. But I do think it is important from the standpoint of coaches making sure their players know the rules, and even more important for officials to make the right call. Hopefully some coaches, players, and officials have read this exchange and will give themselves a refresher course.

Thanks to everyone who responded to my question.

Just to add my two cents to the matter as I was thoroughly confused when the play was called ... Could it have been the five second call similar to the five-second closely guarded play?  I do know five second transpired off the clock and the referee even pointed to the clock as I was right in front of the referee who made the call.

[fcnews]

Ok, now this Mac call has reached the twilight zone. 1.) If the clock was running why was Coleman letting it roll up the floor? That's the purpose of this tatic, to save time on the clock. 2.) If it was a dead ball with the clock stopped (or under a minute to play after a basket) then Coleman had to of touched the ball to start the clock. 3.) If he didn't touch it, he didn't have possesion so the closely guard rule is out.

So something is not right about the description of the play in question.


"IF" FU wins tonite. And, if MU can beat WC on Wednesday. Then a FU win on Saturday against MU would make the EC game collapse alot easier to swallow.

Although, If "If and buts" were chips and nuts we'd have a hellva party.

[y_jack_lok]

So something is not right about the description of the play in question.

I don't think there is anything wrong with the description of the play, at least as I initially posted it. But the ensuing discussion has muddied the waters. The game clock had to be stopped, or there would be no sense in utilizing the "roll the ball down the court" tactic. JAdaPrince, did you really see the game clock running?

DukeDevil's post about the rule is accurate. I have gone to the NCAA rule book and below is the rule copied and pasted from said book. Article 4, which I have put in bold face type, seems to me to be the operative article. (I have also bolded one word in article 3.) That being the case, the official made a mistake when he blew his whistle and called a five second in-bounds violation, which I am now certain is what happened.

Section 6. Throw-in
Art. 1. The throw-in shall start and the throw-in team shall have team control
when the ball is placed at the disposal of a player entitled to the throw-in.
Art. 2. A throw-in shall end when a passed ball touches or is legally touched
by an inbounds player or when a player, who is located on the playing court,
touches and causes the ball to be out of bounds or when the throw-in team
commits a throw-in violation.
Art. 3. The thrower-in shall release the ball within five seconds so that
the pass goes directly into the playing court, except as provided in Rule
7-5.6.b.
Art. 4. The throw-in count shall end when the ball is released by the
thrower-in so that the ball goes directly onto the playing court.

[HCACBBALL]

Pat,

I would tell you that the donors and alums at Hastings would want to know if they could compete in D3.  They have been very successful at the NAIA Div II Level and have many donors.  So, I am not sure it is just a coach problem.

[theoneandonly]

I am not usually one to complain about officials, but the officials in last nights bc lincoln christan game were TERRIBLE

[fcnews]

Yjak - I was not doubting your description of the play, at all. It was the accompaning description that muddled the story. The clock running made no sense.

As you can tell by the boxscore FU had little trouble with PC after the first 10 minutes. FU held PB to just 19 second half points. FU had an unusually rough shooting nite. Boy those rims are tight.

I was extremely dissapointed in the continued cheap shots by PC. Maybe frustration, but there were some very unsportsman like blows thrown. PC's #3 is very lucky that the FU coaching staff kept thier players from retaliating. McCoy had his nose bloody and Forrest and Fogerty took some serious blows, away from the ball. PC's #35 did show GREAT sportsmanship when he leveled McCoy on a legal pick. He came the length of the floor to check on Patrick who was out on his feet.

Alot of FU players saw time and everybody left with body parts in place.

[fcnews]

Hopefan - I will be traveling down the highway tonite, Again. Can you include me on the text update list. Thanks in advance.

[hopefan]

FC will include you - hope youll be back for Saturday!!??

[pantherpride06]

Only score not reported currently is the Greenville / MacMurray game.... surprise... no.

36-19 Greenville with 6:00 to go in the 1st Half.

[pantherpride06]

Update from Greenville, Ill.

Greenville 52, MacMurray 26

Ky Millner (MC) 5
Farrid Coleman (MC) 9

LaPhonso Ellis (GC) 8
Ben Cochran (GC) 8
AJ Brooks (GC) 9

[pantherpride06]

What a ending to the SLIAC Season we have upon us...

Given what has happened tonight...

Greenville, Fontbonne, and Westminster are all tied for first.  Greenville host both Fontbonne and Westminster in their next three games.  If Greenville can take care of business, they not only get in, but could host the tournament. 

I know the kids at Greenville are super excited!  And they don't know it yet because they are still playing...

Currently leading by 30ish with less than 5 to play.

[hopefan]

Ugly game at Maryville last night vs Westmin  -  Both teams played hard as expected, but the game left an overwhelming memory of missed foulshots and turnovers from Maryville, and crucial missed shots by Westmin, along with one horrendous call by officials that curtailed Westmin's momentum.  I don't EVER 'complain' about officials, but there were some querky calls in this one - and they all seemed to go against Westminster.  The real momentum changer was when Westmin's Stan Crawford stole the ball at mid court and rushed to the hoop one on one vs Maryville's Tyler Saxton - He blew by Saxton for the layup (noticed I said blew by, not through or over) Saxton did a flop, and the ref called an offensive foul - this one should have been on Tyler.....

The game was close at 15 minutes left, but Westmin shot poorly all night, and Maryville pulled away to a 15 point lead with 6 minutes left.  From that point on though, they played giveaway with tunovers and missed foul shots... Westmin cut it to 6 several times and had good shots to get closer, but they repeatedly missed key shots until the end was inevitable.

For Maryville, it was offensive streaks by various guys that won the game.... Grunewald, Winters, Baker, and Simmons all had times in the game where they were clearly the go to guys, and each ended up in double figures.  Jarred MCCoy had a terrific floor game, handling the ball most of the time and getting a number of key lose balls and rebounds to help keep Westmin at bay.  Simmons is just plain tough for a freshman - probably the best Frosh big man I've seen in the Conference - tough rebounder, and a good offensive player with a nice touch and surprising moves for a frosh at this level.  If Maryville remained D3, watching him for 3 more years would really be something to look forward to...  his performance at D2 level remains to be seen.

Good to see Jason Warnicke back in the Westmin lineup, but he was clearly rusty, and in a tight game, played many more minutes than Coach Mitchell probably would have liked.   He, Vislay, and Kovach all had tough shooting nights, 9 fo 32 between them - just too many misses for Westminster to recover from.

So the league goes to a four way tie at 3 losses, Webster one back at four losses, and Eureka, winning the must win game vs Webster, two back at 5 losses.  The four way tie will quickly revert to a two way tie on Saturday, with Maryville playing Fontbonne and Westmin playing Greenville. Webster plays non conf Spalding, and Eureka plays Prin....

[hopefan]

Other reflections

Greenville crushes Mac - Starters play only about half the minutes and would appear to be in great shape for Saturday's CRITICAL matchup vs Westmin-  Poor Mac is clearly out of gas.....

Looking forward to hearing from Eureka SID - though I imagine there is a writeup by now on the Eureka College site regarding the Eureka win over Webster.

Lots of people to talk to in the stands last night ... Maryville AD Tony Duckworth (his suggestion is I start up D2Hoops.Com next season), Former SLIACCommish Rich Meckfessel, up from South Carolina to see a plethera of games this long weekend - SLIAC, Wash U, UMSL;  Westmin Asst AD Terry Logue; Former Maryville Asst Gene Myers, Fontbonne Coach Lee McKinney -  fun to chat briefly with each..   ALSO noted that just about the whole Fontbonne team was in attendance - big games coming up with both Maryville and Westmin -

[Ralph Turner]

"D2Hoops.com" actually exists.   http://www.d2basketball.com/

It is just not as professionally done as the d3sports.com platform.

Pat Coleman's journalistic acumen is seen on these pages.

I really believe that he has created his version of the next journalistic/media vehicle.

This has been a "ground-up", "open access" vehicle for D3 to get some footing in the media world.  I have heard coaches call this their "ESPN".

Please!  Encourage your SID to submit game stories and keep their links up-to-date on these sites.

The technological analogy is the fax machine.  One fax machine doesn't do any good, but every new fax machine connected to the others adds more value.   

[fcnews]

Hopefan- Did you get your intro to Will Wolper last nite? I heard it was old home week in the stands. With founding SLIAC members Coach McKinney and Terry Logue (former WC coach and now SID) sittting together with former commish Coach McFessel and new commish Will Wolper and joined by SLIAC referee assigner Ron Zetcher.

Huge disparity in free throw attempts MU 27 and WC 7. Webster and EC combined to shoot just 13 ft's.

Saturday should be interesting.