MBB: St. Louis Intercollegiate Athletic Conference

[Into_the_Blue]

However Blue, I don't think you can accuse me of being totally statistical oriented, which the writings are beginning to point to....

I was going more for defending my own argument that making accusations toward anyone on this board.

If my accusations pointed to anyone it would be in reference to pgkevins post about coaches who sometimes see blown up individual stats over the kids who did it all every night. 

If anything I was trying to prove that we were on the same page in how we chose our teams.  The only difference we had was either that 5th spot for Millard or him falling into the 6-10 spots. 

[Into_the_Blue]

Although we are at this point simply talking about our conference picks 6 games into the season.

And as Ive stated many times, I havent even seen a game.


Im sure that choosing these conference rewards will be much more cut and dry at the end of the season..... 

[hopefan]

A couple of years ago - I debated that Chad Fornie of fontbonne merited consideration for first team All Conference -   And it was totally for defense, hustle, being the ultimate team player holding together a group of guys who badly needed a leader.....   he didn't even make honorable mention!  But ironically, got MVP of the conference tourney.....    and lo and behold, the next season, an all Defensive team was started.....

[Into_the_Blue]

Good point hope.

Do you think the coaches look more at stats (large amount of steals or mins played or charges taken, etc) or do you think they focus more on the intangibles since defense is more of an unglamourous category anyway?

For instance in what youve seen since the defensive team was started do coaches lean more towards the guy who leads the SLIAC in steals or the guy who held the other teams best player to 10 pts on a nightly basis?

[hopefan]

I think statistics are still prevalent - though I can't remember having a major beef with the selections last year with the exception of Justin Storandt receiving no mention....  When I look at last year's all conference 3 teams, there is nobody out there that would have made it strictly as a defensive hustler  -  I'd almost bet it's the top 15 scorers in the conference...    (not talking about the defensive team)

[watchdog]

On an unrelated subject, here are the most
recent Massey ratings (413 teams listed):

113 Westminster
190 Eureka
239 Webster
305 Spalding
333 MacMurray
358 Greenville
372 Fontbonne
398 Principia
405 Blackburn

Now, back to the previous discussion!

[hopefan]

FYI last year's teams

FIRST TEAM ALL-SLIAC      
NAME    SCHOOL
Michael Zasada    Eureka
Brian Fogerty    Fontbonne
Chris Forrest    Fontbonne
LaPhonso Ellis    Greenville
Ryan Turk    Webster
     
SECOND TEAM ALL-SLIAC    
NAME    SCHOOL
Rod Sykes    Blackburn
Patrick McCoy    Fontbonne
Kyle Winters    Maryville (Mo.)
Stanley Crawford    Westminster (Mo.)
Jason Warncke    Westminster (Mo.)
     
HONORABLE MENTION ALL-SLIAC    
NAME    SCHOOL
Kameron Bell    Eureka
Farrid Coleman    MacMurray
Ryan Sichting    MacMurray
Eric Gruenewald    Maryville (Mo.)
Todd Zimmerman    Principia
     
ALL-DEFENSIVE TEAM    
NAME    SCHOOL
Rod Sykes    Blackburn
Chris Hohm    Greenville
Steve Hrdlicka    Webster
Stanley Crawford    Westminster (Mo.)
Ky Millard    Westminster (Mo.)
     
PLAYER OF THE YEAR    
Brian Fogerty    Fontbonne
     
NEWCOMER OF THE YEAR    
Chris Forrest    Fontbonne

[theoneandonly]

Heart breaker for blackburn last night losing to Eureka in overtime. Blackburn overcame a 30 point deficit to tie it and go into OT, where they lost by 4 points to 2nd place Eureka.

[hopefan]

An incredible night of SLIAC hoops including OT games at Greenville and BC, and the further drop of Fontbonne into the abyss  (and Josh Branch sees no action - can anyone tell us why? it certainly can let the imagination wander)   I hope to do a detailed writeup on Greenville - Webster later today

[Into_the_Blue]

Was just looking at box scores.  Interested to hear your write up Hope.

Noticed Branch wasnt in the game too.  Wonder whats up.  Forrest had a rough shooting night it looks like.  Wonder if Millard guarded him....haha jk. 

Vislay had another good night

## Player                 FG FGA FG FGA FT FTA OF DE TOT PF  TP  A TO BLK S MIN

04 Vislay, Jake........ *  9 11   3   3    2     2   2   7    9    1   23  0  1    0  1   22

A lot of players saw quality minutes for WC last night.  Not a regular occurrence when youre playing Fontbonne. 

[hopefan]

Another interesting personnel issue  -  Jerry Strickland is no longer with the Webster program...  they definitely missed him against a team with the quickness of Greenville

[Into_the_Blue]

Yet another thing I found interesting.

Earlier in the SLIAC season FU was playing 5 or 6 guys most of the minutes.  In their last 2 or 3 games a lot of guys are seeing the floor much more. 

Any smart coach knows he needs to get his younger guys more minutes for the upcoming year(s).  How are the guys from FU who were playing all the minutes reacting to watching more lately? 

I guess we're all making a lot of FU's surprising start to the SLIAC, im not trying to sitr anything up or point any fingers, just curious as to how a team everyone expected to be in the top 3 of the league is reacting to their slow start. 

[hopefan]

I think the answer to your last question is showing up in the boxscores - I am just stunned by some of these results -

I also note Fred Fleming hasn't been playing   -  wonder if he is gone.....

[hopefan]

As I have referred to last year's Eureka at Fontbonne game as the game of the year, this year that title may very well be carried by the Webster at Greenville game (though I'm sure that anyone witnessing the eureka at Blackburn game may protest!!!)

Notes on Greenville vs Webster....

How regulation, OT and OT@ ended...

Regulation   -  Webster had extended their lead to 10 in the 2nd half, and it was at 5 with 4 minutes... Got to 63-61 with 2 minutes on an Ellis hoop, Jones hits 1 of 2 at 1:50  for 64-61, and Seaton gets a hoop at 1:30 for 64-63.  Trippett turns it over and fouls Seaton at 1:15, but Seaton misses the FT. Jones turns it over at 0:56, Greenville uses clock, but Agomo misses from underneath at 0:26.  Greenville has to rapid fire foul 3 times, as Webster is not yet shooting.  Jones makes two at 16 seconds to make it 66-63, but Ellis hits a 3 at 7.7 to tie it 66-66...   Trippet comes down and shoots from the top of the key, off the back of the rim, end of regulation

1st Ot....    Webster up 70-68, Trippett fouled at 1:24, makes 1 of 2, 71-68.  Greenville misses, but Agomo tips it in at 1:05, 71-70.   Bradfish fouled at 1:00, but misses both, Gville rebounds and calls TO.  Grove hits a drive to put greenville up, 72-71 at 30 seconds, but Webster inbounds long to Whitcombe for a layup and he's fouled at 26 seconds and he makes the free throw...  Webster up 74-72...  Greenville comes down and Andy Traeger hits from the key with about 5 seconds.  74-74...  Webster can't get a shot at the buzzer

2nd OT....    Webster up 79-78 at 2:30, Meeh misses a short jumper, Ellis fires a long 3 no good, Meeh fouled at 1:35, makes 1 of 2, 80-78.   Ellis fouled at 1:26, makes 2 for 80-80.   Whitcombe hits from short at 1:00 for 82-80, Ellis misses, but Hilliard scores on the put back at 31 seconds.  Webster uses clock, Whitcombe goes to hole but appears to slip and is called for the clear travelling..   Greenville inbounds to Seaton who gets it downcourt to ellis who swishes a 3 from the right wing..

BUT it's not over yet....  Time out, some conversation as to what the clock should read (it was at .6) and it is moved to a legitimate 1.2 seconds. During the time out, it is clear that Coach Barber must have told his kids to foul whoever caught the ball  -  if so, good decision  - The ball goes to Jones at half court,, he is hit by Seaton on the left side of his body and ALMOST in the same motion turns and throws the ball at the basket  -  bang  - bank, swish  ....  but he was clearly fouled before he turned and threw.....and the shot, and the potential 4 point play is no good.  He has to go to the line, and when he misses the first, it's all over.

Other notes

As mentioned before, Jerry Strickland is gone and is potentially missed more than any other member of the team would be....  No one with quick ball handling skills is left, nor is there anyone who can stay defensively with someone like Seaton.....

Coach Bunch must have decided he had to have some reasonable quickness on the floor vs Greenville - Ortwerth saw less minutes than normal, and Miller never got in, and Robbie Meeh played limited duty....

Well I've been talking about Nick jones all season -  my expectations, and his shortfall so far.... I never expected a game like last night  -  once he found it, he REALLY found IT  -  confident outside shooting, penetration to the basket, it was all there.   Unfortunately, in a way, this hurt the Webster offense, as the rest of the players seemed only interested in getting nick the ball - Moore and Restoff's game seemed to suffer significantly, and I attribute some of it to over reliance on Jones.

Funny site of the game - Jones gets a scalp wound at a critical time in OT and it's bleeding all over the place - the trainer is already treating Matt Trippett's ankle, and now has to deal with this...  A quick swab, a piece of cloth from who knows where (was it Bunch's Tie?) and jones gets back in the game wearing something like a Karate Kid head piece  -  hey it worked  -  no more blood visible!

Cody Bradfish had an excellent game off the bench and actually carried the team for a while in the 2nd half - a shame he missed 2 critical free throws that I know will stick with him for a long time...  

Despite a couple of missed free throws and turnovers - there were no goats  -  I viewed this more as Greenville winning the game than Webster losing it.

Great fans - the Webster lady's team - totally into the men's game  -  incidently, Some of the ladies have some GREAT moves to the music played during timeouts - one in particular.....

Greenville - geesh I though Ben Cocranes style of play probably drove Coach Barber nuts, Rashad Seaton has got to have him climbing the walls even higher  -  way out of control many many times   -  but just when you thought the kid was going to  lose the game, he would come up with a great drive to the hole for a hoop or an assist.

I called Yjak at half when Webster was up and voiced confidence that Webster would win easily   (WRONG)  -  in the first half, every possession by Greenville seemed to be marked by a turnover or a bad, forced shot.  Good coaches make adjustments, and coach Barber must have, because in the 2nd half Turnovers were reduced dramaticly and shots were generally more open, better looks.....

Andy Traeger may have had a career night... I don't know why he has the green light from 3 point land, but he was very effective from 15 feet in.....  with Ortwerth out, his height advantage enabled him to catch and shoot  pretty easily.  

Ellis had a streaky game...  missed 6 in a row from the field in the 2nd half, then hit 4 in a row including a tying 3, missed 5 in a row in the OT, 2nd OT, then hit the game winner.  I kinda liked him better with a little more weight playing in the pivot, where I remember him being unstoppable  -  he took some forced shots from the wings.....

Another good frosh I was unaware of   -  Jonas Mcbride  -  Needs to get a lot stronger, but is aggressive, good handle, nice shooter.

Stephen Groves seems to hold this club together.....

Agomo, Hilliard  -  great jumps....if they were only a couple inches taller.....

The prayer session that Greenville holds after the game is WONDERFUL   --  all of a sudden, it's not about who won or lost, but about giving thanks for the ability to compete and play ball.....

Just reviewed the box score and what I said about Greenville adjustments is shown in the stats.... shot less than 30% 1st half, 50% 2nd;  10 turnovers first half, 4 in the 2nd + ots.

One number that I disagree with  -  I was disappointed in the crowd, so counted  about 130  on the far side, about 40 on the bench side including the Webster ladies      the box score says 500!!

[Into_the_Blue]

Great write up Hope.  Greenville is a nice place to play.  Good atmosphere and great way to end the night.

Did Jones make the shot that got called off from half court or take a dribble? 

What an ending!