MBB: St. Louis Intercollegiate Athletic Conference

[hs_pg_qb]

There had been some discussion several days ago about Westminster's chances of either hosting an NCAA tourney game, or making the tourney as an at large team should they be upset in the conference tourney.   I responded that those chances were highly unlikely due to the exremely low OWP that Westminster carries- that is Opponent's winning %....  

In the Multiregion area, Pool C room, 'Knightslappy' has put in updated data through Sunday for all kinds of ratings stats  -  he has rated 8 to 10 teams in each region, trying to match the manner in which the NCAA does regional ratings.  

Wesstminster has the LOWEST OWP of any team he lists - primarily it shows that because so much of Westmin's schedule is conference games, and because SLIAC conference teams fare poorly when they play NCAA D3 non conference teams, that performance hurts Westmin when and if they rack up a 16-0 record vs SLIAC schools.

I note  Medaille in the Eastern region is in exactly the same position - and they've lost only once all year!!

Knightslappy's numbers have Westminster rated 9th in the region, even though they have the second best W-L regord in regional games  -  it is all in the OWP  -  It is highly likely that The regional rankings that start up soon from the NCAA will have a similar outcome, and in the long run, the selection commitee uses those ranking to make their picks.....

I know there had been huge discussions previously, particularly with fcnews about pre-conference scheduling.  My question is whether or not the strength of the non-conference teams comes into account or is it strictly OWP?  If just OWP, wouldn't it be better to try to pad your non-conference games aginst the weakest D3 schools?

Of course, when your conference is considered to be the "weak" D3 in the region, it could be difficult to get these types of games. 

[Into_the_Blue]

Happy Birthday Mr Cheeks

[hopefan]

 hsqb....  OWP (opponents winning percentage) is ALL regional opponents winning percentages, conference and nonconference.  Non Region D3 and any non D3 do not count for anything.......
if you want a great regional record, then pad yor schedule against the weakest D3 teams in your region.

however, if you pad against weak teams, ie you not only play in a weak conference, but play weak out of conference teams, your OWP is very low, and your regional record impact will be diminished.   In the SLIAC, without looking, I know for instance, that Mac has an outstanding non conference schedule and a high OWP  -  unfortunately, they didn't WIN any of those games, so it's of no help.  Westminster on the other hand played a marginal D3 non conference schedule, and will get little help to counter the dismal OWP from the SLIAC schedule...

there is also, in the ultimate decision making, an oowp taken into consideration...  an opponent's opponent's winning percentage, that takes into account if two teams have similar regional records, and the teams thay have played have similar winning percentages, how good were the teams their opponents played....

[Into_the_Blue]

WC is 15-2 against D-3 opponents (not sure regional record).

Their losses came @ Rhodes vs Hendrix (3-8 SCAC, 6-11 overall) and @ Illinois College (5-4 MWC, 9-7 overall).  Not particularly good losses.  The committee wont care what time of year they happened (EARLY), since then WC has been Gellin'.

Non conference wins @ Crown (3-5 UMAC, 3-15 overall), @ Neb Wesleyan (5-7 GPAC, 7-12 overall), @ Elmhurst (0-8 CCIW, 5-14 overall), @ Concordia (Ill) (7-4 NAC, 10-9 overall). 

Not a great non-conference resume in the eyes of the committee Im sure.  And not even sure how many of these would be considered "regional." 

[hs_pg_qb]

Hope-

I get it.  Thanks for the explanation

[hopefan]

Knight Slappy lists Westmin's regional record as 12-1 which would indicate that the loss to Illinois college and the wins over Elmhurst and concordia along with 10 conference games are Westmin's regional games.....

[Into_the_Blue]

I have a hard time taking someone named knight slappy serious but i guess ill have to

[hopefan]

just for the uniniated...  there are several definitions of regional games....  I'll explain, though I don't have details in front of me..

The NCAA has 8 regions....  they are Atlantic, Northeast, East, Mid Atlantic, Midwest, Great Lakes, south, and West.....   These regions are identified on the Front page of D3hoops, and the list of schools that are in each region is listed if you hit a region.  Playing a school in your region is a regional game.

Most Conferences have all schools within the same region..... however there are several that do not... ie the UAA, the AMCC.... any game against a conference foe is a regional game whether you are in the same defined region or not.

In the last couple of years, the NCAA has also split the states by the map into regions that do not exactly match the 8 regions previously explained.  There are definitely different splits.. so if you are in the same geographic region, it's a regional game  -  I have those state splits at home, not with me, or I would list them.   An example MIGHT be   -  and this is hypothetical  --  Consider Missouri and Iowa.   The SLIAC in Missouri and WASH U are in the Midwest Region.   The IIAC (Iowa Conference) is in the West Region.   In the past, if teams played each other, it would not have been a regional game.  However, with this Geographic region, if Missouri and Iowa are in the same geographic region, it is a regional game, even if they are not in the same NCAA region.


Finally there is the 200 mile rule..  in a few cases, despite both the NCAA regions and the Geographic regions, neighboring schools playing each other does not qualify as a regional game.  If 2 schools are within 200 miles of each other, as established by a particular mapping agency the NCAA uses, it is a regional game.  the most 'famous' of this occurence is the Hope or Calvin vs Wheaton situation.   Hope and Calvin are Great Lakes, Wheaton midwest;    Michigan and Illinois are also in different Geographic areas.   BUT, the Map says Hope and Wheaton are within 200 miles of each other, while Calvin and Wheaton are not  (Hope and Calvin are about 25 miles apart).     Hope-Wheaton is a regional game, Calvin Wheaton is not.


Trying my best to educate!!

[ec_fan14]

But, with 3minutes to go. Best case Fontbonne makes 2 ft's. Did they make them? Possesion stays the same. Don't believe it effected the game. It seemed that the last team with the ball was going to win. 4-5 seconds is a long time.

Yes FU did make the free throws which put them up 1 after being down one and they already were getting the ball after Bell scored.  Those were 2 big points with less than 3 min to play especially with a game that was decided on a buzzer beater so i must disagree that the ft's didnt effect the outcome of the game.  I think Eureka got a stop on its next possession too.

My question was if you're up 3 with less than 30 sec left do you foul so you dont let them have the chance to tie?  or do you let them jack up a desperation 3 like what happened to EC vs Mac and Fontbonne and tie the game?

[hopefan]

I wouldn't foul that early  -  too much time left, but get it down to about 5 seconds, I say foul....  I'm inclined to think it's a heck of a lot harder to get the 3 in any manner from the foul line with only a few seconds left than hitting a 3, even hitting it against good defense.

[hopefan]

I see our old buddy frostbite lurking often lately - but nary a post?   Frosty, you are our inside info on Westmin - let us hear from you!!

[I_HAD_GAME]

Considering the whole Landon Kurz PED scandal  , I'm suprised that there is even a Frostbite to post. If he did post how much creditability could you give it.

The whole regional ranking thing. The SLIAC champs will be a 16 seed untilfurther notice. Webster was regionally ranked and maybe could of got a little break in the draw, the year they went undefeated through the SLIAC. But, they lost their first round conference tourney game. So I guess we'll never know.

Westminster may have achance to travel south or north to Iowa. Mac and EC would both be in a position to be placed several places. Webster will probably be sent down Big Bend. In any case, our chances for a first rd. win don't look any better this year.

Just my HO.

[hopefan]

GAME   unfortunately, Agreed.....  but we can always 'Hope'   -   somewhere some day, a Coppin State will beat a Duke, too......

[hopefan]

you know, I haven't ben formally monitoring, but the SLIAC room has been getting a lot of traffic the last month....   I quite often see 5,6,,7 8 guests and 3 or 4 registereds in the room  -  I'd say a big increase from years gone by.....   THE WORD is spreading!!!!

[Into_the_Blue]

But, with 3minutes to go. Best case Fontbonne makes 2 ft's. Did they make them? Possesion stays the same. Don't believe it effected the game. It seemed that the last team with the ball was going to win. 4-5 seconds is a long time.

Yes FU did make the free throws which put them up 1 after being down one and they already were getting the ball after Bell scored.  Those were 2 big points with less than 3 min to play especially with a game that was decided on a buzzer beater so i must disagree that the ft's didnt effect the outcome of the game.  I think Eureka got a stop on its next possession too.

My question was if you're up 3 with less than 30 sec left do you foul so you dont let them have the chance to tie?  or do you let them jack up a desperation 3 like what happened to EC vs Mac and Fontbonne and tie the game?

Is the team you want to foul in the bonus?