MBB: St. Louis Intercollegiate Athletic Conference

[augie_superfan]

Below is from the ODAC board:

Here is a new DIII basketball ranking system that makes some adjustments to Ken Massey's:

https://sites.google.com/site/d3basketballindex/

According to this system Principia has the 23rd toughest strength of schedule against D3 teams. They have played Girnnell, Rhodes, Wash U, Blackburn, and Eureka. Makes me think there is a flaw in the way these calculations are made. But I'm no statistician.

There is no flaw, usually bad teams will have higher SOS ratings over time because their losses push their opponents to a higher rating.  Here is the combined D3 record of those Principia opponents you've mentioned:  26-11...good for a 70% winning percentage.

Grinnell and Wash U themselves are highly ranked in my system (#8 & #17 respectively). Rhodes and Eureka are also ranked in the Top 150.

[y_jack_lok]

Interesting. How does your system differ from Massey, which has Principia at 170 SoS?

[augie_superfan]

Interesting. How does your system differ from Massey, which has Principia at 170 SoS?

Well the most meaningful difference between our two systems is that his includes ALL games whereas mine only includes D3 games.  For most teams, the system will be similar.  However, with Principia, they have played 5 D3 games and 5 other games.  So, if my system included their other 5 opponents, then I would assume a lower SOS rank also.  If you want to read about my system, here is the explanation page:

https://sites.google.com/site/d3basketballindex/explanation-of-ranking-system

[y_jack_lok]

Thanks. Impressive. I also like that you are not including Neb. Wes. & Maine PI. I wondered if Neb. Wes., playing only 6 games vs D3, would be included since I follow Webster and they played at Neb. Wes. a couple of weeks ago.

Keep up the good work.

[buncheriffic]

I get what you are saying, but dessert is dessert. I guess the top tier goes for those 0% trans fat cupcakes, and the SLIAC gets those jelly donuts and cream cheese crullers from Donut House on Morganford (open 24 hours btw). Both desserts taste great and add a notch in the win column.

Now, to continue the analogy, maybe the SLIAC has to work a little harder in the end to shed those lbs. So back to my original point - win in the tournament, and it doesn't matter how you got there. Embarrass yourself in the tournament, and it doesn't matter how good you look in the mirror.

The way I read this, there are two arguments:
1. SLIAC is a lower tier Division III Conference.
2. It is laughable for SLIAC teams to play inferior programs; this hurts their credibility.

No, not inferior programs ... programs that represent institutions that do not match the four-year undergraduate profile of NCAA schools, or whose rosters, scheduling, etc., do not match NCAA standards for four-year-undergraduate competition.

Concordia Seminary is not a four-year undergraduate institution. It's a graduate school.

Logan Chiropractic does offer four-year, bachelor's-degree programs in addition to graduate degrees. However, its basketball team clearly does not match the NCAA"s criteria for four-year-school competition with regard to its roster makeup, and hence it's considered to be a "competitive club program" by NCAA standards rather than a legitimate varsity program.

I will retract what I said about Bible schools. Many Bible schools are two-year institutions, but both St. Louis Christian College and Lincoln Christian University, the two Bible schools that are on SLIAC schedules this year, offer four-year programs that terminate in bachelor's degrees in addition to their traditional two-year Bible-school programs. Nothing wrong with playing them in terms of institutional profile; the problems with playing them are that, like St. Louis College of Pharmacy: a) they're not very good; and b) SLIAC schools should be seeking to play D3 schools whenever possible. But those are completely different matters.

[hopefan]

FWIW............. SLIAC teams are 10-30 against non conference D3 teams

of those 10 wins, only 2 are against a team with a winning record...
Greenville over Rhodes (7-3)
and one that shocked me  Fontbonne over Central (8-1)  yes Fontbonne's only win is Central's only loss!!!!

[hopefan]

last night's two SLIAC scores both merit comment

Blackburn loses 78-51 to a Monmouth squad that could only be described as 'average - at best'.... Blackburn has to be the most disappointing squad of the non conference season, as far as living up to expectations.  The BC I saw in exhibition against SIUE was well rounded, reasonably deep, and showed a major inside presence... all that changed with the loss of newcomer Steve White, who was that inside presence... but even without White, BC seemed to show enought talent to be competitive in the SLIAC, and against the likes of non conference opponents such as Monmouth..  despite the 2-0 start in conference, it's just not THERE yet.  This team should be scoring a lot more than that, and valuing each ball possession far more than they do....  that win over Fontbonne showed me far more wrong than right....

Very good win for Spalding over Thomas More...  T More had only lost to unbeaten Transy and unbeaten Bethany....  this could be the SLIAC's best win this year.  I'm hoping this is a sign that Spalding is learning to play without their departed seniors, and will play a prominent role in establishing who will earn the Conference tourney spots......

[y_jack_lok]

Westminster loses to Cornell 89-80 last night. Previously winless Millikin got it's first win of the season over Cornell just a few days ago. Sometimes it's hard to understand why some games turn out the way they do.

[hopefan]

Conference games start in a little over a week... how do I see things unfolding, give results of most non conference games and 2 nights of Conference?

Well... I see 5 teams vying for the four conference tourney spots.... that means eliminating 4 teams from the mix right off the bat...

Spalding...  not eligible until next year.... but let's ask the question for the first time NOW...  if the 4 year holding period for Conference Tourney eligibility is to graduate all possible scholarship players, then is Spalding going to be eligible next year if 5th year players DeWhon McAfee and Cody Cutsinger return... while I have no qualms about their staying that 5th year, I would find fault with the SLIAC if the conference allowed the spirit of the rule to be circumvented by the two players sitting out this year.  I don't know if NCAA rules play a part in it too.  Will Wolper has been very open to explaining rules to me... I'll be anxious to discuss this situation with him....

Prin is an obvious out... their shortage of manpower won't be overcome by good coaching or great nights by individuals.... Prin needs more guys that can play.

Fontbonne too, lacks the horses needed...  little or no presence on the boards, no go to guy on offense, poor perimeter shooting.....  a lot of fire from the coaches and the guys who are playing, but it will take a year or two to build the roster back up.  Still this team has shown it can be dangerous on any night with pressure defense, and will likely score a couple of wins during the conference season that will shake up the standings.

Blackburn just hasn't shown the consistency that makes me think they can play with the top 5 teams.  I simply don't believe this team can win relying on 3 point shooting, and the ball just isn't getting inside often enough to open up the perimeter.  This team has the talent to finish top 4, but unless there is a drastic turnaround, or unless transfer Steve White reappears in the second semester, this team won't make it....  and I thought this team was a 1st place contender when I saw them at SIUE in an exhibition game.

A little later... how will the top 5 finish......

[hopefan]

Commissioner Will Wolper responded ALREADY to me regarding my question regarding Spalding.. I'll directly post his response so I don't get anything wrng.. Spalding is totally in the clear and any speculation ends, which is fine... Cutsinger and McAfee are good players who make the SLIAC Better!!!!

"As a provisional member of the NCAA, Spalding is not eligible to compete in the NCAA Tournament. Because of that, the Conference has a rule that schools ineligible for NCAA play is ineligible for our Tournament. If such a team won our Tournament, we would lose our AQ. From our end, it has nothing (directly) to do with weeding out all scholarship players. That is a factor with the NCAA moving a school through the provisional process so indirectly factors in to our operations.

In fact, Spalding has been scholarship-free for two full years (this is the third basketball season without a scholarship player). SU was in its first provisional year when they applied to the SLIAC, were in year two when accepted and had to repeat a provisional year so by NCAA rule, would have had to be scholarship free by last year (an could have been a full NCAA member this year). The institution cut off awarding scholarships a year before required under NCAA exploratory/provisional membership rules thus it being scholarship-free for over two years."

[allamericanredhead]

FREE DENNIS!!!!

[hopefan]

I've ruled out Spalding Prin BC and the Font from the Conf Tourney

ok  so that leaves Eureka, Webster, Westminster, Greenville, and MacMurray... vying for four spots, and the all important home court hosting position... one thing in common, 5 veteran coaches who know what it takes to win. (allright, Creole hasn't been around the conference quite as long, but his team's accomplishments has quickly earned respect).. each of the teams were in the conference tourney last year except Eureka, but each lost most of the critical players from last year.. but through different manners, (use of last year's bench, jc transfers, and a couple of key frosh), these teams remain at the top of the SLIAC pack.

Let's take a look at each team..

Eureka.... this could be the turnaround of the year, not only in the SLIAC, but in all of D3... 4-21 last year, they could achieve something like 15 wins this year...  Eureka's season was a disaster last year with injury and defection.  Only one starter returned.. big man Mark Lessen, who averaged 11 ppg and 7 rpg... But Jordan Kindred a flashy point guard who can score, came back after a significant early season injury kept him out last year, and three JC transfers from Sauk Valley are doing more than anyone could have expected.  Strong point...solid and balanced starting 5....4 players averaging double figures... Transfer Fritsch leading the league in scoring and rebounding...  Bench not helping too much... Lessen has had a couple of huge games, but has disappeared in several others... Combo of Fritsch and Lessen should dominate in a SLIAC that has very little size.

Webster....  The Gorlocks have won only once, but it was a huge win, beating Westminster badly in their only league game.  That game appears to show us that once again Coach Bunch's theory of playing a tough nonconference schedule pays off when getting into SLIAC competition.  In the win Webster's athleticism and quickness was clearly superior to Westmin, and that may show against the rest of the conference too.  Stefon Whittingham has been tremendous around the basket and newcomer Roman Robinson has helped with scoring.  The troubles... Returning starters Cody Bradfisch and Jerrod Huskey have been disappointing..I think both flourished as supplemental players to Trimble Moore and Jones, but may not be 'go to' level just yet..... if these two pick it up Webster will be very tough to beat

Westminster looked really bad losing to Webster, but since then has shown renewed promise as Coach Matt Mitchell seems to be maneuvering his starting lineup for the better.  A starting lineup that includes Mookie Velandra helping on the boards and frosh Verdis Lee getting more minutes and scoring more seems to have helped, though a loss at Cornell is disappointing.  Joe James has stepped it up big with his scoring... but Skylar Tolson's year long shooting slump after leading the nation in 3 point shooting percent last year remains a mystery.  Not much size to this group, but they'll be able to stay on the boards with most SLIAC teams.

MacMurray took some big hits with graduation and 2 underclassmen not returning, but Mac's firey coach Todd Creole really has these guys playing well against D3 competition after taking lumps against Wash U and Illinois Wesleyan.  A big plus too is that they already beat Greenville at home, and won in Louisville vs Spalding.  The return of Brady Slagle has been huge.. he quietly may be pushing to an MVP year, and frosh Clayton Whitlock is starting to show major production around the hoop.  Coach Creole plays 10 guys, and those minutes have really helped the bench deliver.. note 41 points between Whitlock and Bishop in a close win over Dominican. I still look at Burton as the best athlete in the conference, though his numbers have been inconsistant and Clint Lee is a leader at point.

I haven't seen Greenville play yet, and they are off to an 0-2 start in conference... but the fact they played close at both Mac and Eureka is impressive.  They beat Rhodes and Hendrix badly after Rhodes beat Westminster.  Coach Barber uses lots of Bench and it seems to be a positive.... too many names that I'm unfamiliar with... assuming Greenville gets by Blackburn, the Jan 10 game at Westmin will be huge in telling us where this team fits into things....


So where do I place them... Mac in, Eureka in (but staying injury free is critical, depth is in question), Webster in (I think Bradfisch, Sooter, Huskey will step it up vs SLIAC), Greenville edges out Westmin for 4th, or... is it the other way around?


Mac gets to host.....Depth is critical in the long haul.....

[hopefan]

2 opportunities for SLIAC teams to pull off an upset on Friday....   MacMurray at Augustana, Nebraska Wesleyan at Westminster...   could either of these games be close?  Should Sliac Fans travel to see either?

[augie77]

2 opportunities for SLIAC teams to pull off an upset on Friday....   MacMurray at Augustana, Nebraska Wesleyan at Westminster...   could either of these games be close?  Should Sliac Fans travel to see either?

On paper the Augustana MacMurray game shouldn't be close, but Augustana has had an agonizing tendency to let weaker competition stay close.  For example, Augie squeaked by a two win Knox team 55-53, where Knox had a chance to win at the buzzer.  Fontbonne stayed close for a half, and four minutes into the second half was down just 5 points.   It should be pointed out that Bryant Voiles, Augustana's All American forward didn't play against Knox due to an injury.  I don't know his status.  Augie really needs him to stay healthy if the team is to match or surpass last year's success (final eight, lost to eventual national champion St Thomas in the regonal final).  Augustana can rebound like a D-1 team, but outside of Voiles doesn't have much of an outside presence.  Go to the game and give this Michigan exile a report  :-)  And make sure you go to Whiteys Ice Cream while your in the area (Moline, actually).  Best ice cream ever.

[hopefan]

Augie, when I went up last year to see Hope and Webster at Augie in the first two nights of the Tourney, seems to me I found a Casino along the river!!!!