MBB: St. Louis Intercollegiate Athletic Conference

[hopefan]

Was reading in the CCIW room that Carthage had lost their best player as he is leaving to find a D1 school... lets see how the SLIAC's recent defections are doing...

Charlie Henderson left Westminster after his frosh year for the University of Arkansas... in his first year of eligibility at U of A, he has gotten into 3 of Ark's first thirteen games for a total of 7 minutes, with one basket... surprisingly a 3 pointer!!!!

Willie Trimble was Mr. Excitement at Webster for a year...  he is now at Cal State LA...he has started 5 of 10 games and is averaging 28 minutes per game, but he couldn't shoot at Webster (his real game was going to the basket), and he still can't at the upper level, shooting 28.7% from the field, 22.7% from 3's, averaging 7.1 ppg...on the positive, he's leading the team with 3.9 assists per game..

Stefon Whittingham was the SLIAC POY last year at Webster, and left for Lincoln U Philadelphia...he has appeared in 7 of Lincoln's 11 games 54 total minutes, and has score exactly 4 points thus far this season...

I hope each of these guys has found what they were looking for at their new institutions... 3 good kids... I wish they were here...

[y_jack_lok]

Was reading in the CCIW room that Carthage had lost their best player as he is leaving to find a D1 school... lets see how the SLIAC's recent defections are doing...

Charlie Henderson left Westminster after his frosh year for the University of Arkansas... in his first year of eligibility at U of A, he has gotten into 3 of Ark's first thirteen games for a total of 7 minutes, with one basket... surprisingly a 3 pointer!!!!

Willie Trimble was Mr. Excitement at Webster for a year...  he is now at Cal State LA...he has started 5 of 10 games and is averaging 28 minutes per game, but he couldn't shoot at Webster (his real game was going to the basket), and he still can't at the upper level, shooting 28.7% from the field, 22.7% from 3's, averaging 7.1 ppg...on the positive, he's leading the team with 3.9 assists per game..

Stefon Whittingham was the SLIAC POY last year at Webster, and left for Lincoln U Philadelphia...he has appeared in 7 of Lincoln's 11 games 54 total minutes, and has score exactly 4 points thus far this season...

I hope each of these guys has found what they were looking for at their new institutions... 3 good kids... I wish they were here...

In Whittingham's case, if he can get the athletic financial aid and leave college with less debt than if he hadn't transferred, and he doesn't care about playing time, then he has made the right choice. But if he transferred thinking that he was capable of doing at a higher level what he did at Webster, then he might be disappointed with his decision.

As for Trimble, he came to Webster from a community college, played a year for the Gorloks, was in school at Webster last year but didn't play. Now he is at yet another institution. College should be about getting a degree and most institutions require students to obtain the majority of their credits from their school in order to award them a degree. So I have to wonder what school will ultimately be awarding Willie Trimble his bachelors degree..

[hopefan]

In Whittinham's case, if he can get the athletic financial aid and leave college with less debt than if he hadn't transferred, and he doesn't care about playing time, then he has made the right choice. But if he transferred thinking that he was capable of doing at a higher level wheat he did at Webster, then he might be disappointed with his decision.

Somehow, I don't think Stefon went to Lincoln saying OK, I'm not going to play at a D1 school, but I'll go anyway for the money...I can't believe he's sitting on the bench thinking, "I don't care"....  IMHO   (Assuming he's getting Basketball money)   Now then, if Lincoln had $$$ from other scholarship sources, not tied to Basketball, and Stefon is on the team as a walkon for the positives of being a part of things, that's a different story... but everything I heard was that he was a recruited scholarship athlete...

[y_jack_lok]

In Whittinham's case, if he can get the athletic financial aid and leave college with less debt than if he hadn't transferred, and he doesn't care about playing time, then he has made the right choice. But if he transferred thinking that he was capable of doing at a higher level wheat he did at Webster, then he might be disappointed with his decision.

Somehow, I don't think Stefon went to Lincoln saying OK, I'm not going to play at a D1 school, but I'll go anyway for the money...I can't believe he's sitting on the bench thinking, "I don't care"....  IMHO   (Assuming he's getting Basketball money)   Now then, if Lincoln had $$$ from other scholarship sources, not tied to Basketball, and Stefon is on the team as a walkon for the positives of being a part of things, that's a different story... but everything I heard was that he was a recruited scholarship athlete...

Lincoln is D2, not D1.

[Gregory Sager]

Cal State-Los Angeles is D2, too, although hopefan didn't specifically state otherwise. Just thought I'd mention it in case there was any confusion.

[GC Panther 01]

GC at MAC Saturday Mac 94-GC 75.  Mac opened the game on a 8-0 run forcing the ball inside to Whitlock (who has gotten alot stronger in the last 2 years) and Slagle.  Whitlock picked up his second foul about 4 mins into the game and went to the bench for all but a couple more FH mins. At that point the guards for Mac aparently decided it was their turn and completely forgot about going inside. If it hadn't been for Bishop shooting lights out and dropping 16pts in the FH GC would have entered the half with a lead. (in a game they really should have been down by 12-14 at the half.  Good shooting by Smith and Metzler really kept it close to the half.  Mac lead 42-40 at the half.  Second half you could tell that Mac had gotten an earful from coach about pounding it inside and opened the half on another 8-0 run before GC stopped the bleeding with a TO.  Most of the rest of the way it stayed between 8-12 pt Mac lead until late in the game, with Mac getting it inside just enough to maintain the lead just not nearly as often as they really should have had the ball inside.  It never really broke open to the 20 pt final until about 4 to go when GC started taking and missing some quick 3's that led to some run out baskets by Mac to extend the lead.  On Mac's side it was all about Bishop, Whitlock, and Slagle who all played well, outside of that I didnt see anything impressive at all.  GC's side it was all Smith and Metzler running the show with a few flashes from a very athletic Jones.  They really need to find a way to get Jones the ball in the mid paint area alot more, he is athletic enough to make something happen to the rim at times and sees the floor very well to get open teamates the ball.  GC didnt play their only token inside guy Rollins as Coach Barber said he was a little beat up and gimpy.  Also said leading scorer Anderson was not with the team during break, his mother had called and said he was still ill.  Time will tell if this is an actual sickness or just a case of home sickness if/when he actual returns to campus (My opinion here).

[hopefan]

GC.. thanks for the writeup.... I had heard same thing regarding Anderson being ill... hoping your hypothesis regarding 'psychological' illness is off base... I've been surprised at Rollins' lack of playing time as he looked pretty good early on... Metzler has to stay out of foul trouble... the big question is, can Greenville improve rapidly enough to compete with the perceived top 4, or are they only capable of being a 500 team this year in conference.....

[GC Panther 01]

If they cannot find a way to defend the paint it will be .500 this year.

There was a touch of ugliness late in the game, with about 4 mins to go Mac's only Sr forward walked into Jones who had come across court to talk to a teamate during a dead ball. Instead of walking around he threw his hands in the air (usually a sure sign you are doing something you shouldn't be) and proceded to try to walk through Jones. Jones was still talking to his teamate and didnt give any ground and a Mac teammate had to come over and seperate the 2.  The kid was taken out of the game immediately and was given what appeared to be a lecture from Creal but had a smirk on his face the whole time.   Then after coming back in to finish the game later Mac was stalling and Rollins who had been put into the game stole a lazy pass intended for the Sr (can't think of his name). Rollins was headed for a layup and with 2 seconds to go the Mac player grabbed him and was whistled for an intentional foul on the layup with about 2 seconds remaining.  Seemed to me like a completly immature couple of gestures from the kid, especially given they had a 19pt lead on what should have just been a late game ending layup.   ...Maybe I'm just getting old!

[hopefan]

There was a touch of ugliness late in the game

I hate hearing that those kind of things happen...  I'm confident that the guilty party will hear about it full blast from Coach Creal....   

GC... see my PM to you

[hopefan]

BIG games tonight

Mac at Webster, Eureka at Fontbonne.....   I look at both these games the same way... the underdogs (Fontbonne and Webster) need to show they can win at home against one of the perceived top 4 teams in the conference....  if they can, they are in the conference race, if they can't, they'll have home losses to make up for with wins on the road, and I have pessimistic thoughts that they'll be able to....   These games are critical to Fontbonne's and Webster's chances to push into the top 4...

Spalding at Prin... I have great respect for Spalding coaches... they'll pull McAfee before he gets 40

Greenville at BC...   this game won't be close... will it?

[Denny McKinney]

Happy New Year All. Just finished reading about 10 pages. Interesting year going on. Been following box scores and a couple Live Stats. Haven't seen a game, but have a few thoughts.

First, Make your reservations now for Louisville. Spalding has been on this path for awhile. Coach has kept the program and players focused and McAfee and Cutsinger paid for this opportunity. With Cutsinger back in the starting line up that last piece is in place. Spalding is well coached and has the most explosive scorer this conference has seen. With Basher on a short leash and all that depth and talent it's time. Winning at Fulton was very impressive.

Webster has lost 3/5 of a Good NCAA Tourney team. Trimble, Whittingham and Griffin. Put them back in the mix with Robinson, Smith and Edwards, Coach Bunch would of had a Great group. Coach Wiley at EC has put together a good group of seniors. Built with experienced transfers. Some say not enough depth. I say you only need 6 or 7. Mac appears to be solid and has maybe the biggest home court advantage. Westminster will beat a lot of teams with their 4 guard game. They will also have trouble with teams with good Bigs.

Fontbonne freshmen are getting a good oppurtunity to get experience Now. Greenlee looks to be the real deal. A couple freshmen PG's getting a lot of time. I hear Colton Woods is avg. 25 on JV. Would like to see him an Greenlee on the court together more. FU needs to find a couple of shooters. Like the core of FU's big years (Fogerty, McCoy and Storandt) they took their lumps that first year and a half. then you can fill in some pieces. Good things down the road.

Finally. The Rant about Jordan Kindred playing football, went way past amusing. Two sport athletes should not be looked down at. This is Div.III, the Student Athletes deserve the best College experience they paid for. The SLIAC has been an option for the HS athlete that excells in two sports. Jordan had a heck of an experience at WR and had 1000 yds, I think. Was selected All Conference! There have been some great dual sport athletes come through the SLIAC. Two that immediatley come to mind are Jeff Reis of WU and Amy Hauschild of FU. Reis may be one of Websters best ever. A POY in BBall and a big part of a good Gorlok soccer team. Hauschild was the POY of two sports in the same year. Took Griffin Volleyball to NCAA Tourney and then was an All American in bball who led her team to the Sweet Sixteen.

Although I never saw a quote, it was implied that Coach punished Jordan for playing football. I seriously doubt that was the case with Coach Wiley.

See you at the GC @ Webster game. Now back to HS basketball.

[Pat Coleman]

Was there a rant about Kindred playing football? I sometimes skip over the long messages, so let me know if I missed it. I would hope that's not a problem, because Division III is one of the last places where a collegiate student-athlete can play two sports.

[Gregory Sager]

"Rant" might not be the right word, because his tone was never harsh and he didn't go on and on about it at length, but two or three times this autumn Hopefan did express his disappointment in this room that Jordan Kindred was jeopardizing his final basketball season -- and Eureka's shot at a really good year on the hardwood -- by risking his health on the football field for the Red Devils.

I can see it both ways. Football's not like other sports in terms of the risks it poses for two-sport athletes, because the injury rate for football is much higher than it is for any other sport. But Denny and Pat are absolutely correct that in the non-scholarship environment of D3 a student-athlete is entirely within his or her rights to participate in multiple sports, and that many of them have done so very successfully.

[hopefan]

The Comments I made regarding that expressed MY feelings that someone playing football would not be able to make the immediate transition to the baskeball court... No, there was not punishment from the Coach, but Kindred's time per game as well as his stats in eureka's games to date are markedly less (as I remember showing in a post) than what they had been ... that's what I was saying... clearly Jordan wasn't at the level he needed to be coming off the gridiron, and Coach did not play him in the same manner as in the past.... it's not 'Punishment'....

[Denny McKinney]

(i've heard enough about the football talk.  if you have seen him this year he is just as quick and has added about 10lbs of muscle) 

Out of curiosity, I compared Jordan's stats with last year.. I know, not fair because less minutes per game means less stats per game... but my point is that his stats are dropping BECAUSE he played football, and the coach has docked his time because of it  (in Coach's mind, Player B practiced all pre season as a starter and deserves to start)..   If JK hadn't played football, this situation likely would not exist.....
min per game 2011-12  31.4     2012-13   22.7
FG %            2011-12  39.2%     2012-13   40%
3 pt FG %     2011-12  30.6%    2012-13   20.8%
FT  %           2011-12  75.5%    2012-13   64.7%
points p game 2011-12  12.2     2012-13    9.1
Reb per game 2011-12  3.5     2012-13      2.4
asst per game 2011-12  5.2     2012-13     2.3
trnovr per game 2011-12  3.3     2012-13   3.1
asst to trnovr ratio  2011-2012 1.6    2012-13   .7

A pretty obvious contribution downturn, and you likely have that intangible too, of Kindred being frustrated while sitting, as well as with his performance  and with the downturn the team has experienced whatever the reason....  Like we all said, let's hope there is healing over the semester break and EC comes back at levels that meet high expectations.....

Sorry I miss understood the above Post. It sounded like "The Coach has docked his time because of it..........."

It doesn't mention injury or condition? Did I miss something here?