MBB: St. Louis Intercollegiate Athletic Conference

[hopefan]

Too bad the conference tournament isn't 6 teams.

The fact that an 11-5 team may not qualify for the league tournament this year may be also be a reason for at least opening a discussion for a bigger tournament.

An idea for eight teams: do the same thing you're doing now (final four teams at one location over 1-2 days), with the Tuesday before being the quarterfinal round at the site of the higher seed?

ECRD... I've been crabbing year after year that the SLIAC is one of only one or two conferences that cannot figure out how to end the regular season on Saturday, and go to the tournament the following weekend... They play games on that Tuesday that COULD determine host and pairings just two days later on Thursday.  If they can't schedule 9 teams to end by Saturday, they will have that many more problems scheduling 10 teams to finish by Saturday (allowing for Tuesday-Fri-Sat)..

Former commish will hollar at me, but I LOVED the way the SCAC did it... faced with a wide geographic distribution, they took top 8 men's top 8 women's all to central location (Rhodes college in Memphis)  (think SLIAC St Louis) put the first round in two gyms (SLIAC think Fontbonne and Webster), semis and finals at Rhodes (SLIAC - Fontbonne) ...  yes, Fontbonne with the homecourt, but with a beautiful place like that, who cares?)...  Regular season champ gets the benefit of the draw, but not the homecourt...  And I know most of the coaches don't agree... this is strictly my thought...  but most of the D1's do it this way, albeit on a totally neu
tral court..

ECRD.. your methodolgy is the way many D3's do it, though most D3's are not as widely geographicly distributed...    I would be more in favor of 6 teams, having 3-6 and 4-5 games either at campuses or as part of long one site weekend, then move to weekend semis and finals. In many cases the 3-6 and 4-5 games could be very competitive.

[Dutch32]

Think of this year's brewing situation of the women's tournament potentially being in Fulton, Mo. and the men's tournament potentially being in Louisville, Ky.  That's almost a 6-hour drive, one way!  There are a handful of people -- ADs, SIDs, athletic trainers, fans -- that would like to be (or even required to be) at both tournaments if both of their teams are participating in the tournament. 

Would you really ask that group of people to log as many as 18 hours on the road in a 48-hour window if both teams are playing in the championship game on Saturday?  Or do they just have to pick one of the tournaments and neglect the other one completely?  Doesn't seem like that far-fetched of a scenario this season, and Eureka, Westminster, Spalding and Webster could all be in that boat.

Really makes the neutral site idea in St. Louis sound like a pretty good idea, especially when there are two league campuses and the league headquarters right there in town.

[hopefan]

ALL RIGHT ECRD.. you and I, Vice Chairman!!!!   

[ecreddevils]

Neutral site is a great idea, but where?  I think you'd have a real attendance problem off-campus (although do students attend the tournament games even now with the current configuration?).  Having it at a Fontbonne isn't a horrible idea, but you are robbing the other schools of the possibility of hosting a huge event on their home campus as a reward for winning the conference.  If that were to happen at a place like EC, it would be huge.  I just don't think there would be enough interested generated at a pure neutral site.

[y_jack_lok]

Looks like I stirred up a hornets nest. Personally, I think some conferences allow too many teams into their post-season tournament. I think six is an ideal number for a 10 team conference, maybe 8 for a 12 team conference. If a conference has 8 or fewer teams then 4 is the right number. If there is an odd number of teams in the conference you can choose the higher or lower number or split the difference (i.e. a 9 team conference can go with 4 or 5 or 6 teams in its tournament, so with 4 teams there are no play-in games, with 5 teams there is one play-in game, with 6 teams there are 2 play-in games). I might be mistaken about this, but I think this season the ODAC is letting all 12 teams into both the men's and women's tournaments. The top 4 teams will get first round byes, the other 8 teams have to play an extra game if they are going to make it to the finals and will wind up playing four games in less than a week if they make it to the championship. That's insane in my opinion.

[Dutch32]

Neutral site is a great idea, but where?

My mistake -- I was referring to the host site being Webster, Fontbonne or a combination of both.  Not a true netral site.

The attendance problem issue lies more with campus administrators than fans.  I don't think the league should have a scenario setup where a college/university president is fortunate enough to have two programs in a league championship game on the same day, but has to skip one of them altogether due to geography.  It usually works out -- last season is a perfect example with Westminster winning the men's title in St. Louis at 1 p.m. before winning the women's title in Fulton at 7 p.m.  But this season's likely scenario is the polar opposite of that -- and probably the worst-case scenario.

As far as the fans go, I would say the Eureka student attendance has been below average in each of their last two championship game appearances because the game's been almost five hours away!  Although Eureka's band did travel to the 2010 men's championship game. 

If the tournament is in St. Louis, and the students know for many weeks in advance it will be in St. Louis, I would imagine the attendance and support would be stronger.  MacMurray is known for its student support -- I wonder how strong it will be if the Highlanders are playing in Louisville next month?

And if the coaches and administrators just absolutely cannot agree on the Fontbonne/Webster/St. Louis idea or deem something similar unfair, why not find a true neutral site somewhere in the area?  SLIAC baseball has found a nice, neutral facility for its tournament in Highland, Ill.  And the 2013 softball tournament has a pre-determined site as well at Principia.

[ecreddevils]

Weekend Preds:

FU @ Prin:  Fool me twice...FU 69 Prin 48

BC @ Spalding  SU 91 BC 53

GC @ Web  Greenville doesn't have the horses to stop Web:  WU 83 GC 65

EC @ WC game of the day...EC finally puts together another defensive performance, keying on Prophet and Lee...this will be all about Lessen, won in the paint:  EC 71 WC 66

[hopefan]

Tiebreaker thoughts

Beating a team twice is a biggie.. if we assume Spalding runs away with things and doesn't lose again, who has a shot at having beaten one of the other contenders 2 times?

IF Eureka wins at Westmin, they will have beaten them twice

Westminster beat Mac twice

IF Mac beats Eureka at Home, they will have beaten eureka twice

Webster has already split with each of the other 2 thru 5 contenders

The other obvious tiebreaker that could come into play is the fact that Eureka holds a win over Spalding.. that could be a one-up on everyone....

[hopefan]

Anybody notice all the names missing from lineups the last game or two?

1)  Mookie Velandra out for Westmin with a broken foot...

2) Four JC transfers that had been playing for Greenville have been gone from the box scores the last week... only Dan Anderson is still playing... at least 2 Frosh have been getting a chance, and have put up some nice numbers...   George Barber is the last guy that deserves this kind of mess...

3) Dylan Burton of Mac reinjured his ankle in practice... length of absence is indefinite... Frosh point guard got a chance, played 30 minutes, led his team to a win..

4) Niko Riviera who appeared to get some kind of injury  (perhaps head, but I'm not sure) in action under the hoop at Webster last Saturday did not play on Wednesday...

[ecreddevils]

Anybody notice all the names missing from lineups the last game or two?


2) Four JC transfers that had been playing for Greenville have been gone from the box scores the last week... only Dan Anderson is still playing... at least 2 Frosh have been getting a chance, and have put up some nice numbers...   George Barber is the last guy that deserves this kind of mess...

They did not look very good against EC the other night.  One exception is Brian Ehresman, a nice player who prepped at El Paso/Gridley, just 15 minutes down the road from EC, would have been a great get for the program.

[ecreddevils]

Neutral site is a great idea, but where?

And if the coaches and administrators just absolutely cannot agree on the Fontbonne/Webster/St. Louis idea or deem something similar unfair, why not find a true neutral site somewhere in the area?  SLIAC baseball has found a nice, neutral facility for its tournament in Highland, Ill.  And the 2013 softball tournament has a pre-determined site as well at Principia.

How about this idea:  a neutral site like an SIU-E (pretty decent geographic location) and hold the Men's and Women's tournaments on the same site over the same weekend.  Four semi-final games (alternating schedule?) on Friday and championship games on Saturday afternoon/evening.

[hopefan]

Neutral site is a great idea, but where?

And if the coaches and administrators just absolutely cannot agree on the Fontbonne/Webster/St. Louis idea or deem something similar unfair, why not find a true neutral site somewhere in the area?  SLIAC baseball has found a nice, neutral facility for its tournament in Highland, Ill.  And the 2013 softball tournament has a pre-determined site as well at Principia.

How about this idea:  a neutral site like an SIU-E (pretty decent geographic location) and hold the Men's and Women's tournaments on the same site over the same weekend.  Four semi-final games (alternating schedule?) on Friday and championship games on Saturday afternoon/evening.

Another site I've always suggested is Merrimack Community College, if the allure of a St Louis site is seen as a positive....   However, if the neutral site is Fontbonne, you'd have the benefit of Fontbonne people administering...  ah well, we're dreaming 

[hopefan]

Well SLIAC fans, sorry to say, the flu bug has taken its toll.. no hoops for hopefan today...  hope the Eureka-Westmin game is a great one.....

[hopefan]

OK Westmin edges Eureka, Webster beats Gville in OT

current
Spalding  one loss
Westmin 3 losses
Mac, Webster, Eureka 4 losses

If Spalding beats Mac, Westmin and Webster:
Mac and Webster will have 5 losses Eureka and Westmin 4 losses
WITH the Eureka at Mac game left, last day of the season...

If MAc were then to beat Eureka, 3 way tie Eureka, Mac and Webster..
Mac would win 1st tiebreaker with 2 wins over Eureka
Eureka would win 2nd tiebreaker with its win over Spalding
Webster would be out....


If Eureka beats Mac, Mac is out with 6 losses, Webster is 4th with 5 losses, Westmin Eureka are 2-3 with 4 losses.

Of course if anyone beats Spalding everything changes.....

For Webster to make it, they either have to beat Spalding, or root for Eureka to beat Mac...

[WU FAN]

Neutral site is a great idea, but where?

My mistake -- I was referring to the host site being Webster, Fontbonne or a combination of both.  Not a true netral site.

The attendance problem issue lies more with campus administrators than fans.  I don't think the league should have a scenario setup where a college/university president is fortunate enough to have two programs in a league championship game on the same day, but has to skip one of them altogether due to geography.  It usually works out -- last season is a perfect example with Westminster winning the men's title in St. Louis at 1 p.m. before winning the women's title in Fulton at 7 p.m.  But this season's likely scenario is the polar opposite of that -- and probably the worst-case scenario.

As far as the fans go, I would say the Eureka student attendance has been below average in each of their last two championship game appearances because the game's been almost five hours away!  Although Eureka's band did travel to the 2010 men's championship game. 

If the tournament is in St. Louis, and the students know for many weeks in advance it will be in St. Louis, I would imagine the attendance and support would be stronger.  MacMurray is known for its student support -- I wonder how strong it will be if the Highlanders are playing in Louisville next month?

And if the coaches and administrators just absolutely cannot agree on the Fontbonne/Webster/St. Louis idea or deem something similar unfair, why not find a true neutral site somewhere in the area?  SLIAC baseball has found a nice, neutral facility for its tournament in Highland, Ill.  And the 2013 softball tournament has a pre-determined site as well at Principia.

A note about SLIAC baseball and your comment.  This is the last year the SLIAC baseball tournament will be played in Highland.  Thank God!  It's been a horrible mistake due to it not being convenient for ANYONE.  The drive is 40-60 minutes from St. Louis.  At least having it at a home site means that the staffing is easy for the top seeded team.  Before anyone disagrees with me none of you have been involved with the event.  Webster is the only school to have hosted the conference baseball tournament since it moved to Highland and yet Webster home field makes Highland's park look like a cow pasture.  At least after this year they're going to try and find a better scenario.

Now back to basketball........

This will really stir up a hornets nest but why not simply get rid of the tournament?  It's just like the rest of our society today.  We try and give everyone to many chances and only award underachievers who don't do well the first time around.  Everyone's worried about saving money in their budgets.  Cutting conference tournaments would be a great place to start.  For schools playing in multiple tournaments throughout the year the cost is enormous.  Tell everyone you win in the regular season or your done.  The way it should be.  No second bites at the apple.