MBB: St. Louis Intercollegiate Athletic Conference

[Gregory Sager]

It just really gets under my skin the way the SLIAC has always been treated. If they want the league in DIII, then quit bad mouthing it.

What type of mistreatment/bad mouthing of the SLIAC are you referring to?

I just want to say that I don't sense any mistreatment or bad mouthing of the conference on this board. I think we get a lot of good observations and input from people whose primary allegiance is to other schools and conferences. We have hopefan to thank for much of that, because he is such a great advocate for the SLIAC.

For what it's worth, I tend to root for SLIAC schools in the tournament because I like supporting the underdog. I probably would've been as pleased as any non-SLIAC fan if the league's rep had managed to win one of those fairly competitive tourney games in recent years. Isn't that the American way? Folks like to root for the George Masons and the Butlers and the Florida Gulf Coasts on the D1 level. The SLIAC representative is one of the teams that fits that bill as far as the D3 tourney goes.

[Denny McKinney]

Titan Q - 1.) Easy!!!! The individual at Wheaton in Charge of administering the tournament in '09. Followed by the Wheaton Adult Fans. 2.) The MH-B Head Coach in '08. The list continues.

[Denny McKinney]

YJak - The poster part is for the Tournament time jabs. And, if my skin wasn't so thin I would find them amusing.

[Denny McKinney]

To think this all started by me defending the effort of the St. Louis coaching staffs. On the time they put into recruiting the metro area. 

[Titan Q]

Titan Q - 1.) Easy!!!!

I just asked you for a simple explanation of what you meant, Denny. 

[Titan Q]

To think this all started by me defending the effort of the St. Louis coaching staffs. On the time they put into recruiting the metro area. 

"This all"?  I didn't know this was anything other than a pretty low-key, off-season conversation. 

[Denny McKinney]

TQ - You asked for explanation. I gave you several examples and #1 was Easy. Am I missing something? Pretty low-key conversation? Between you and I. Yes it was. A part from that I had everyone of My Opinions attacked and scrutinized by The Great One. That I didn't feel was low-key. Questioning " how much I know about D3 ", not low key. And, his yucks about what comes first, with some kind of inside joke about a chicken. I'm glad the SLIAC was able to be part of the punch line.

The question I asked regarding the regional aspect of a Div. of the NCAA. No response?

Basically TQ, you may have mistaken the explanation points behind my easy first choice, as being meant for you. They weren't.

[Titan Q]

TQ - You asked for explanation. I gave you several examples and #1 was Easy. Am I missing something? Pretty low-key conversation? Between you and I. Yes it was. A part from that I had everyone of My Opinions attacked and scrutinized by The Great One. That I didn't feel was low-key. Questioning " how much I know about D3 ", not low key. And, his yucks about what comes first, with some kind of inside joke about a chicken. I'm glad the SLIAC was able to be part of the punch line.

The question I asked regarding the regional aspect of a Div. of the NCAA. No response?

Basically TQ, you may have mistaken the explanation points behind my easy first choice, as being meant for you. They weren't.

I'm having somewhat of a hard time following what you are upset about, Denny.  So just a few thoughts... 

1) I went back and read this entire conversation and I honestly don't think you are being attacked by anybody.

2) You did make some pretty controversial statements that naturally elicited some responses.  For example...
- "Take Principia out, there is No Way a FU or any other SLIAC school can compete with any CCIW schools on packaging. Not for a student athlete or any other student."

- "Basically my view of Division III members are either State Schools or High Profile Private schools. I truly do not believe that the SLIAC schools are part of the Div. III profile."

- "Kids do not want to go to a commuter school."

- "It just really gets under my skin the way the SLIAC has always been treated. If they want the league in DIII, then quit bad mouthing it."

What makes this forum great is the number of different opinions represented, like yours above.  But realize when you make debatable points (and many of your points in this conversation have been "debatable"), you're going to get a little healthy debate coming back.  You seem a little surprised/offended that you've gotten pushback -- remember, the stronger the opinions you make, the stronger the counter points will be from those who feel otherwise.  Neither party is in the wrong - it's all good.

3) Greg's reference to a chicken was a jab at two IWU fans/posters (Mr. Ypsi and IWU70...long story) -- it had nothing to do with the SLIAC.  I re-read his comment and don't really see how you took that as a jab at the SLIAC.


Bottom line, I don't think you have been "attacked" at all in this conversation.  "Scrutinized"?  Sure.  But you certainly posted some things that welcomed healthy scrutiny.

[hopefan]

Almost dropped a C-note... aaaahh well... 10 bucks....  not really.. a $2 show ticket ..... on Kentucky Derby entrant Vyjack... as I assumed there was obviously some sort of ownership, trainer, jockey relationship with SLIAC poster buddy  Y-Jack...  dang, missed getting over to the track to get it down.....   

Where did Vyjack finish.... 18 out of 19...  kinda the SLIAC of horse racing...  ooooops,no, don't want to bad mouth my favorite conference.

[y_jack_lok]

Almost dropped a C-note... aaaahh well... 10 bucks....  not really.. a $2 show ticket ..... on Kentucky Derby entrant Vyjack... as I assumed there was obviously some sort of ownership, trainer, jockey relationship with SLIAC poster buddy  Y-Jack...  dang, missed getting over to the track to get it down.....   

Where did Vyjack finish.... 18 out of 19...  kinda the SLIAC of horse racing...  ooooops,no, don't want to bad mouth my favorite conference.

I watched the Derby and the similarity of my posting name to the name of that horse didn't even register on me. But if you had ever seen me run in my younger days you would consider a next-to-last finish a victory. 

[Denny McKinney]

TQ- "Kids do not want to go to a commuter school." I stand by my statement, when it comes to St. Louis Kids. Maybe not true for Chicago players. But, St. Louis is a different animal.

I still wonder why there were no comments explaining the regional aspect of NCAA Div. III.

Pat, Congrats on your Award. Well deserved. Thanks for all the coverage you gave to the FU Men's and Women's teams over the years. Great memories are never lost.

Considering I'm two years removed from the picture, I will keep my comments to myself. I will continue to be on the Bryce Dolan Watch on the CCIW Board. Feel free to carry on with the discussion.

My parting Poll: What will happen first?
A. SLIAC Rep wins Tournament game
B. NPU makes the CCIW 4 team post season tournament

Now that would make for a good Poll. Would take a lot of thought. And, might be a 50/50 split.

Have a nice Day.

[Gregory Sager]

TQ- "Kids do not want to go to a commuter school." I stand by my statement, when it comes to St. Louis Kids. Maybe not true for Chicago players. But, St. Louis is a different animal.

You didn't specify in your original statement that it was directed in particular at either St. Louis kids or at basketball players.

[Denny McKinney]

I think it is a mistake to think that the SLIAC schools don't recruit the metro St. Louis area hard. They do! The problems are: 1.) You eliminate a good portion of those kids because of shear cost. You can't drive a BMW on a Chevy salary. 2.) This is big. Kids do not want to go to a commuter school. A lot want to go away to college. 3.) What the school offers academically. If an athlete wants anything other than and Education or Business Degree FU doesn't offer it. And 4.) A lot of metro kids do not qualify. Because of this cities poor quality schools.

I hope that sheds some light on the struggles "I believe" exist in this recruiting discussion.

Yep. I thought I made it pretty clear.

[Titan Q]

I still wonder why there were no comments explaining the regional aspect of NCAA Div. III.

I thought there were?  Didn't Mr. Ypsi and Sac estimate that your 15% number was actually something like 25%?

I'm not quite sure what other comments you were looking for there outside of confirmation on the %?

[Denny McKinney]

Yes TQ you are correct. As Yjak pointed out, I snoozed on WV and NC. My question is why NCAA III is so regionally heavy? Did the NCAA desire to keep it that way for travel purposes? I do not know my NCAA History back in it's inception days. Is there a reason why it is so NE loaded? Even the SE is relatively slim (SC, GA, FL, AL)?

I know population is one factor. But, It seems to me that DIII got to 420 members without much effort to recruit a more geographic balance. There are a lot of schools between StL and the West Coast. The whole west coast thing baffles me, considering their isolation from other members. Even TX. You would expect a Lone Star conference would be simple and provide the tournament committee some options. LA, MS, AR, OK and KS is another area you would expect to find members.

It just seems to me when you Crown a National Champion, it is more of a Regional Championship. I'm just asking if anyone knows the philosophy about how they went about accepting members.