MBB: St. Louis Intercollegiate Athletic Conference

[Joevegas]

Joe Vegas still here. Been gone but I did see the wins.  Not much to say since the season for fontbonne was a disappointed one.  Hopefully the fontbonne coaches and players will do some serious soul searching during the offseason. 

[Denny McKinney]

Well a little investigation it shows WC wins tiebreaker. GC has 2 T's. One @Mac and One @SU. Boxscore does not show what type of Ts they were.

That is just a crying shame. GC has not made the post season tourney, since it was reinstated. And, they will not go this year because of a BS rule. Since this rule covers 5 sports, I seriously doubt that a poll was taken of 100 Head Coaches. I would say this was decided by the Presidents and AD's in the Administration Committee.

I was kind of interested to see how SOS worked out. Considering WC beat Elmhurst at Home and GC beat Elmhurst on the road.

But NOOOOOOOO!!!!!!! WC gets in under the Bozo Rule. What a joke this is.

Sorry Panthers. I feel your PAIN.

[Denny McKinney]

Bunchtime. The Gorloks will have a tough time winning it down at Louisville. I can't believe they are allowed to play a Conference Tourney on a court that does not meet College size. And, against SU's press if you have a man open at halfcourt your pass will go off the bottom of the Balcony. Bush League! SU will be hosting both the Men's and the Women's Tourney, too.

[hopefan]

Well a little investigation it shows WC wins tiebreaker. GC has 2 T's. One @Mac and One @SU. Boxscore does not show what type of Ts they were.

I was kind of interested to see how SOS worked out. Considering WC beat Elmhurst at Home and GC beat Elmhurst on the road.

But NOOOOOOOO!!!!!!! WC gets in under the Bozo Rule. What a joke this is.

Sorry Panthers. I feel your PAIN.

Denny.....  SOS does not work the same way as the quality of wins steps...Westminster has a stronger SOS, so would go to the tourney anyway, T foul rule or not... you omit that in your rant. 

To my knowledge:
SOS is based totally on the records of the teams played, and the records of the teams the opponents played... nothing to do with how Greenville and Westmin did against them... in other words, it is a measure of how strong your non conference NCAA opponents are, not how they played against them.. I already wrote about this, but Westmin has the advantage over Greenville because they played Milwaukee Engineering, who is sitting at 20-4...

Published formal explanation of SOS:

Division III strength of schedule.

- Opponents' Average Winning Percentage (OWP).

- Opponents' Opponents' Average Winning Percentage (OOWP).

[See below for explanation of OWP and OOWP calculations.]



Opponents' Average Winning Percentage (OWP). Take each opponent's regular won-lost percentage against other Division III teams and average the percentages



Opponents' Opponents' Average Winning Percentage (OOWP). The strength of each opponent's schedule is measured by computing the opponent's winning percentage for each opponent, and then averaging the percentages. This recognizes the fact that two opponents with similar won-lost records may have played far different schedules (in terms of strength of opponents).



Weighted Scale. Once the Opponents' Average Winning Percentage (OWP) and Opponents' Opponents' Average Winning Percentage (OOWP) are calculated, they are to be combined on a weighted scale (e.g., 2/3 weight for OWP and 1/3 weight for OOWP) and this combined number becomes the strength of schedule.

SOS is saying that if Team A played 4 bad teams and went 4-0, and team B played 4 good teams and went 0-4, team B would have the advantage...

[ecreddevils]

WHY does the SLIAC remain one of only two conferences that schedules its final conference games on the Tuesday of Conference tourney week???  Other conferences with 9,10, 11, even 12 teams can figure out how to schedule their conference seasons to end Saturday, but not the SLIAC... this is SO bad for so many reasons...
It takes away any opportunity to have a tiebreaker game, which would be exciting for everyone involved

Bingo, this absolutely makes the most sense.  End Saturday and play the potential tiebreak on Tuesday at a coin-flip determined site.   Problem solved. 

The only other non-arbitrary way I can think of is record against the top 3 seeds in the tournament, but in this case it will be 0-6 for both GC and Westmin. Any other standard is completely arbitrary and therefore inherently unfair on some level.  I understand the technical foul thing to a slight extent in that it doesn't impact coaching decisions in a potentially negative way like SOS or an offensive statistic would. 

[hopefan]

Bunchtime. The Gorloks will have a tough time winning it down at Louisville. I can't believe they are allowed to play a Conference Tourney on a court that does not meet College size. And, against SU's press if you have a man open at halfcourt your pass will go off the bottom of the Balcony. Bush League! SU will be hosting both the Men's and the Women's Tourney, too.

Bush League?  Give me a break..  That court is fine... no where near as cramped as Blackburn and comparable to Westmin or Webster..

[Pat Coleman]

WHY does the SLIAC remain one of only two conferences that schedules its final conference games on the Tuesday of Conference tourney week???  Other conferences with 9,10, 11, even 12 teams can figure out how to schedule their conference seasons to end Saturday, but not the SLIAC... this is SO bad for so many reasons...
It takes away any opportunity to have a tiebreaker game, which would be exciting for everyone involved

Bingo, this absolutely makes the most sense.  End Saturday and play the potential tiebreak on Tuesday at a coin-flip determined site.   Problem solved. 

The only other non-arbitrary way I can think of is record against the top 3 seeds in the tournament, but in this case it will be 0-6 for both GC and Westmin. Any other standard is completely arbitrary and therefore inherently unfair on some level.  I understand the technical foul thing to a slight extent in that it doesn't impact coaching decisions in a potentially negative way like SOS or an offensive statistic would.

I agree that if you are going to limit entry to your conference tournament to half or less than half, allow for a play-in game as a tiebreaker when teams have split against each other. That's the most equitable way to go about it.

[Denny McKinney]

Hopefan - That is a HS size court. Walk it off when your down there. Also, none of the gyms you mentioned have obstructions to the area of play. Ie: The Balconies.

I bet you a cup of coffee that WC and WU are full size college courts. Your a gambling man.

I have seen the balcony obstruction come into play in a Women's FU game.
Not to mention you take a chance of playing a game in a gym that is so cold that it could be in the 40's. IE: Fontbonne game there 4 years ago. The boiler went out overnite. And was found out till someone came to the building the following morning. And, with radiant heat, the FU people were huddled around those cast iron heaters. My Dad coached the game in one of those football sideline coats. He would of forced a postponement if it wasn't for the facts of we had traveled down the nite before. Men's game was of no importance that year and he left it up to Women's Head Coach Quigley. Who was still in the conference race. It was played in front of a hand full of SU fans and the small continguent of FU parents. Spalding players came out in Under Armour gear. FU players were running laps around the little theatre next to gym to try and stay warm.

[hopefan]

The cold situation was likely a one time occurrence... same reason Westmin ppd a game and had tremendous problems this winter... I've seen 5 games at Spalding, never seen the balcony come into play...  I like the court, the old time environment... as stated before, I'm not too hot on the behavior of some of the fans... but then I had worse problems with Fontbonne fans a number of years ago...

[Denny McKinney]

Folks. Pile on my Karma for questioning Hopefan. I'm just letting people have true insight. Those "quaint" gyms are fine for memories of 50's and 60's HS games. But, have no business being part of deciding a birth to the NCAA Tournament.

It's not Coach Gray's or SU's fault. They have to deal with the facilities available.

[Denny McKinney]

Hopefan are you trying to say the Balcony does not come into play on inbound plays? Let's just say the EC v FU, Tarpley to Richards full court pass and shot to win could of never took place at SU. Period. What part of this conversation has to do with Fans?

[hopefan]

use a short guy

[Denny McKinney]

So it is an obstruction. Short guy doesn't work with a man on the ball. It even effects in bound plays from under your own basket. It's a problem. Face it. 

[BunchTime]

Denny. Obviously never been to Spalding so can't really speak about the gym.  I may try to get over there on Sat. if the Gorloks are playing.  Is the school located in the suburbs or downtown.  I'll take in the nightlife if I can go. 

Or I may sit it out and hope Webster makes the Big Dance and go to that.  Anyone know when the first round is played?

[Denny McKinney]

Bunchtime- It is right downtown. Are you taking the wife if you go down for the nite? I might tag along for nite life. I'll be your designated driver. Louisville is a neat town.

The gym would be a neat place to have a throwback tourney. It's a WPA built building. it is a gym on one side and an old theatre on the other. I heard there once was a 6 lane bowling alley down stairs. But, can't confirm that. Neat old place. Just not for the sliac tourney.