MBB: St. Louis Intercollegiate Athletic Conference

[BunchTime]

Denny, let's hear your shortlist or names you'd like to see added that I omitted.

[Mr. Ypsi]

At least a HS coach has experience on the sideline. Knows how to coach a team to victory. And, there have been 100's of Great DI coaches who learned and put in time and sweat on the HS level.

What does a 30 something D3 Bench coach know about winning a game. Most have never coached a meaningful game, other the JV. Gene Bartow St. Charles HS, coach Spoon in the SWMO area, Rich Grawer and my Pops for 12 years.

Your examples are all pretty dated, Denny.

As I said, it's perfectly possible that there's a high-school head coach out there who would be ideal for Fontbonne, because there are current examples within the D3 ranks of coaches who moved up from high school to college successfully. I've already cited Mike Fuline from Mount Union; perhaps Pat or D-Mac or somebody else can come in here and cite another example or two, 'cuz nobody else seems to be coming to mind for me at the moment (which doesn't mean that there aren't other examples out there besides Fuline).

The problem with your assertion, Denny, is that there's an awful lot of ADs out there who don't agree with you. If you track d3jobs.com regularly -- one of the various websites Pat administers as part of the d3sports.com family -- you see just how many D3 athletic directors out there are either insisting upon college coaching experience, or listing it as a preferred attribute, when they post the qualifications for their coaching job openings.

Right now d3jobs.com lists three openings for head coaches: Yeshiva men's basketball, Wilkes men's basketball, and Western Connecticut men's soccer. Yeshiva's job requirements simply say, "Bachelors degree and 3-5 years experience coaching basketball required." However, the Yeshiva job is only part-time, which restricts the school's ability to be selective.

The Wilkes job requirements states: "A Bachelor's degree is required, Master's degree preferred. The ideal candidate must have significant knowledge of and proven success in coaching basketball, preferably at the collegiate level." It's a full-time position.

The Western Connecticut job requirements state: "Bachelors Degree is required; Master's degree preferred. A minimum of five (5) years coaching experience at the collegiate level, preferably at least two (2) years 'experience as a head coach." It's also a full-time position.

Speaking as someone who had a front-row seat for the rigmarole of his alma mater's hiring of a head basketball coach not once but twice within the last few years, I've developed a pretty good idea for what D3 ADs are looking for nowadays in terms of full-time head coaches. And, while I'm sure that there's plenty of exceptions, college coaching experience seems to be either required or preferred more often than not.

Sager if you want to tell me the ins and outs of coaching? You barked up the wrong tree. I think I have a pretty darn good idea.

I wasn't directing those comments at you, Denny. I was directing them at BunchTime. That was pretty obvious, since I referred to him by name.

While Ron Rose had two low-level stints as a college assistant coach, his 9 years before IWU were all as a HS HC - he hasn't fared too badly.

[Denny McKinney]

Bunchtime - You caught me off guard. I'm still in shock that Steve Schaefer left. I can she for a "Dream Job". But, not this way. If it was all about the bucks. I thought he was to young and single for shear dollars. He put in his Bio: "That he was a builder of programs."

With Not Much Thought.
In House - obvious reasons.
Kevin Walsh - 2nd most obvious
Chad Fournie - Asst., recruiter, runs the entire JV program at LU-Belleville
Brian Lind - Lutheran South longtime HC.
Jeff Morrow - Played for Dad at MoBapt. Was Dad's assistant at FU for 5 years. Now State Championships in Ark.

Perfect World :Dino McKinney
A lot like my brother, can't handle the pay cut.

[Pat Coleman]

Even better than reading D3jobs.com, take a look at the last couple years of Coaching Carousel to see who schools are hiring. Also, to see who schools are letting go. What kind of experience did the last few years' new hires have?
http://www.d3hoops.com/notables/2013/coaching-carousel

[BunchTime]

Some good ones, Denny.  I'm a bit partial here, but I think Kevin Walsh would be a phenomenal hire.  However, I just don't see it as a even a remote possibility.  Would be great for FU.

What about the Associate AD at Fontbonne, Anthony Hall, as the next head coach? 

[Gregory Sager]

While Ron Rose had two low-level stints as a college assistant coach, his 9 years before IWU were all as a HS HC

The question is: Would he have been hired by IWU if he hadn't spent two seasons as an assistant coach at Olivet Nazarene and two seasons as an assistant at Wichita State? Perhaps, given the fact that he is an IWU basketball alumnus and had served as a high-school coach right there in the BloNo community. Or perhaps not. I don't know the answer to that question.

Keep in mind, I haven't said that nobody hires high-school coaches to run their college programs nowadays. Quite the opposite, in fact; until you cited Rose, I was the only one who had come up with a 21st-century  example of someone making that conversion. All I've said is that the trend seems to be for D3 ADs to either require or prefer coaches with collegiate experience, if the coaching gig is full-time.

[Gregory Sager]

Even better than reading D3jobs.com, take a look at the last couple years of Coaching Carousel to see who schools are hiring. Also, to see who schools are letting go. What kind of experience did the last few years' new hires have?
http://www.d3hoops.com/notables/2013/coaching-carousel

Good idea, Pat.

Looking at Coaching Carousel over the past twelve months, 26 new head coaches have been hired in D3 men's basketball and women's basketball. Of those 26 hires, 24 of them came from the college coaching ranks. The two that didn't were Shark Hamilton (George Fox men) and David Ferrell (Ozarks men).

That looks like a pretty strong trend.

[Denny McKinney]

Speaking as someone who had a front-row seat for the rigmarole of his alma mater's hiring of a head basketball coach not once but twice within the last few years, I've developed a pretty good idea for what D3 ADs are looking for nowadays in terms of full-time head coaches. And, while I'm sure that there's plenty of exceptions, college coaching experience seems to be either required or preferred more often than not.

And, you know what. You haven't had a whole lot of luck.

Dated? Really? The game has added a shot clock and three point line. That's about it. Basketball is Basketball. And, good coaches are good coaches. This has become a cookie cutter coaching world. No instincts. No Blood and Sweat. Just by the book. No Thank You.

For example: How do I know what Coach Schafer learned in his years at NPU? Looking at the problems they have had. I wonder.

[Denny McKinney]

Maybe they can find a good NAIA candidate with experience. No why would they leave NAIA.

I'm sorry folks. I'm to Old. What is required to be a head coach today has digressed. You no longer have to go out and learn how to coach, anymore.

Go ask someone if you can volunteer to help. A couple years you might make it to one of three part time assistants and in 6 years your a candidate.

I don't know the Asst. AD. Or, his expeirence

[Gregory Sager]

Speaking as someone who had a front-row seat for the rigmarole of his alma mater's hiring of a head basketball coach not once but twice within the last few years, I've developed a pretty good idea for what D3 ADs are looking for nowadays in terms of full-time head coaches. And, while I'm sure that there's plenty of exceptions, college coaching experience seems to be either required or preferred more often than not.

And, you know what. You haven't had a whole lot of luck.

And you know what else? It's only been two years since Tom Slyder was hired. Rome wasn't built (or, in this case, rebuilt) in a day.

(And I might add that Tom Slyder, unlike any head coach in the SLIAC past or present, has actually won a D3 tournament game.)

Dated? Really? The game has added a shot clock and three point line. That's about it. Basketball is Basketball. And, good coaches are good coaches. This has become a cookie cutter coaching world. No instincts. No Blood and Sweat. Just by the book. No Thank You.

Tell it to the athletic directors of D3, Denny. Don't tell it to me.

For example: How do I know what Coach Schafer learned in his years at NPU? Looking at the problems they have had. I wonder.

By taking a shot at Steve Schafer, you're not just taking a shot at Paul Brenegan, his head coach at NPU. You're also taking it at Keith Bunkenburg, his head coach at Benedictine. This is from Bunkenburg's bio on the BU website:

Keith Bunkenburg took over the reins of the Benedictine men's basketball program in 1995. Bunkenburg has established a tradition of success at his alma mater, creating a program that stresses success both on the court and in the classroom.

Also a former standout player for the Eagles, Bunkenburg guided the program to a school-record nine consecutive winning seasons between 1996-2005, three 20-win campaigns, a Northern Athletics Conference (NAC) South Divison championship, three-consecutive NAC tournament appearances, four Northern Illinois-Iowa Conference (NIIC) regular-season titles, an NIIC tournament crown and four NCAA Division III tournament appearances.

Keith Bunkenburg took over the reins of the Benedictine men's basketball program in 1995. Bunkenburg has established a tradition of success at his alma mater, creating a program that stresses success both on the court and in the classroom.

Also a former standout player for the Eagles, Bunkenburg guided the program to a school-record nine consecutive winning seasons between 1996-2005, three 20-win campaigns, a Northern Athletics Conference (NAC) South Divison championship, three-consecutive NAC tournament appearances, four Northern Illinois-Iowa Conference (NIIC) regular-season titles, an NIIC tournament crown and four NCAA Division III tournament appearances.

Bunkenburg has averaged 16 wins per season as Benedictine's head coach and has guided the Eagles to either regular-season or conference tournament titles six times. The NIIC "Coach of the Year" for both the 1999-00 and 2000-01 campaigns, Bunkenburg was named Illinois' NCAA Division III "Coach of the Year" in both 2000 and 2004. His career win percentage ranks him among the winningest active NCAA Division III coaches.

[Denny McKinney]

Speaking as someone who had a front-row seat for the rigmarole of his alma mater's hiring of a head basketball coach not once but twice within the last few years, I've developed a pretty good idea for what D3 ADs are looking for nowadays in terms of full-time head coaches. And, while I'm sure that there's plenty of exceptions, college coaching experience seems to be either required or preferred more often than not.

And, you know what. You haven't had a whole lot of luck.

And you know what else? It's only been two years since Tom Slyder was hired. Rome wasn't built (or, in this case, rebuilt) in a day.

(And I might add that Tom Slyder, unlike any head coach in the SLIAC past or present, has actually won a D3 tournament game.)

Dated? Really? The game has added a shot clock and three point line. That's about it. Basketball is Basketball. And, good coaches are good coaches. This has become a cookie cutter coaching world. No instincts. No Blood and Sweat. Just by the book. No Thank You.

Tell it to the athletic directors of D3, Denny. Don't tell it to me.

For example: How do I know what Coach Schafer learned in his years at NPU? Looking at the problems they have had. I wonder.

By taking a shot at Steve Schafer, you're not just taking a shot at Paul Brenegan, his head coach at NPU. You're also taking it at Keith Bunkenburg, his head coach at Benedictine. This is from Bunkenburg's bio on the BU website:

Keith Bunkenburg took over the reins of the Benedictine men's basketball program in 1995. Bunkenburg has established a tradition of success at his alma mater, creating a program that stresses success both on the court and in the classroom.

Also a former standout player for the Eagles, Bunkenburg guided the program to a school-record nine consecutive winning seasons between 1996-2005, three 20-win campaigns, a Northern Athletics Conference (NAC) South Divison championship, three-consecutive NAC tournament appearances, four Northern Illinois-Iowa Conference (NIIC) regular-season titles, an NIIC tournament crown and four NCAA Division III tournament appearances.

Keith Bunkenburg took over the reins of the Benedictine men's basketball program in 1995. Bunkenburg has established a tradition of success at his alma mater, creating a program that stresses success both on the court and in the classroom.

Also a former standout player for the Eagles, Bunkenburg guided the program to a school-record nine consecutive winning seasons between 1996-2005, three 20-win campaigns, a Northern Athletics Conference (NAC) South Divison championship, three-consecutive NAC tournament appearances, four Northern Illinois-Iowa Conference (NIIC) regular-season titles, an NIIC tournament crown and four NCAA Division III tournament appearances.

Bunkenburg has averaged 16 wins per season as Benedictine's head coach and has guided the Eagles to either regular-season or conference tournament titles six times. The NIIC "Coach of the Year" for both the 1999-00 and 2000-01 campaigns, Bunkenburg was named Illinois' NCAA Division III "Coach of the Year" in both 2000 and 2004. His career win percentage ranks him among the winningest active NCAA Division III coaches.

I did not take any shot at Schaefer!!!!!!!!!  I questioned what he learned in those positions. The mess has been NPU since I came on this board.

NPU Recent Records
2013-14 (3-21, 1-13 CCIW)
2012-13 (6-19, 1-13 CCIW)
2011-12 (6-19, 2-12 CCIW)
2010-11 (11-14, 4-10 CCIW)
2009-10 (13-12, 7-7 CCIW)
2008-09 (8-17, 0-14 CCIW)
2007-08 (14-11, 6-8 CCIW)
2006-07 (13-12, 5-9 CCIW)

26 conference wins in 8 years. If the SLIAC loses a member. May be NPU should join. Just for Basketball.

[Pat Coleman]

why would they leave NAIA.

Everyone else is ... why not? (Apologies to the remaining NAIA schools.)

[BunchTime]

Sager, serious question and no snark intended: What did NPU see in Slyder?  Were there not better candidates available? Disclaimer: I only read his bio and saw his record as head coach at Anderson, which was 18 games above .500. You take out his 09-10 season, and he was .500. Now, maybe he turns it around at NPU, but you can't tell me NPU wouldn't be better served to hire a guy with Chicago ties, even if he came from the high school ranks. No?

[Denny McKinney]

I just noticed that the three post game posts of Allamericanredhead have been removed. That is very odd.

Sager you win. I'm just an old school moron. And, tired of reading your posts. You beat me down. Next CCIW assistant available step up please.

Bunchtime- How about Coach Hollander, assistant at Lindenwood ? Bingo!!!

[allamericanredhead]

well this old red head must have hit a nerve by enlightening our fellow SLIAC fans of the standards of how SLIAC men's officials are chosen. Felt I was doing everyone a service with this insider info.; but see instead my posts were taken down. For see childrne, being chosen to the ranks of SLIAC officiating on the men's side had nothing to do with merit, but instead who was willing to line the right people's pockets by working free all summer at Zetch's "Officals Clinics." Rich, I got a felling you are the one who had my post removed. If what I stated is inaccurate, plesae come on here and clarify, since it went on for year's under your watch. Otherwise, supporters of the SLIAC have a right to know the truth as to why officiating in the SLIAC on the men's side has always been a farce.