MBB: St. Louis Intercollegiate Athletic Conference

[hopefan]

3 games on Saturday went down to the wire.. wish I had been at one of them... while it was great to see Webster get things turned around, I go looking for competitive games.. the Greenville - Webster game was hardly that... after seeing Greenville play so well vs Eureka earlier in the week, it was incomprehensible that they showed as they did vs Webster... I honestly don't know what to think... no starter played well.. the front court I bragged on hardly showed up.. all of a sudden, Ted Daniel becomes a perimeter shooter and forgets to attack the basket, and can't hit anything...  Andrew Scott plays intimidated, misses bunnies and has about 5 shots blocked... and while Ron Harris at least shows up, he did little to generate any kind of comeback... and the guards.. even worse... thank goodness Stevonte Young recovered from his sore ankle... he brought a little excitement to Greenville's game...

Webster started out building a lead off GOING TO THE BASKET.. Hooray.. It works... When Adam Etter hit a twisting drive very early, I knew the Gorlocks were in good shape!!  Ward and Smith took it to the hoop or hit shorter Jump shots with success, Griff played with tremendous energy around the hole, Moore hit his first 3 shots... it all turned around from the ugly showing against IWC.... not that I didn't enjoy the 3 point shooting barrage of the 2nd half, but I'm much more up about the offensive philosophy that built the lead in the first half.... and something had to have kicked in defensively too, because everyone on Greeville was stonewalled.   Incidentally, two games in a row Jonathon Odjo looking very good, making things happen..a little sloppy with the ball, but a real shot in the arm for a Gorlock team that needed it....

Some brief oneliners about the other games...
Mac nips Fontbonne in the last minute?  And who leads it.. not the inside game, but Dylan Guthrie with 31... Mac gets out rebounded... Looks like Williams got the quick hook from Coach Hall with 3 turnovers in 7 minutes, but Dorhauer comes in and does a great job... and lookie lookie lookie, Greg Gentry back and gets 4 assists in 9 minutes.... IF he keeps playing this way, he HAS to get more time....Rucker and Greenlee again solid, but Kissing 0 boards?

BC nips Prin in OT.. looks like Prin had foul trouble, but the big thing that sticks out to me is that a role player went 2-11, 1-8 from 3's...
Wouldn't it have been worth a couple more points if one of the other 4 starters had gotten a couple of those shots.....Good win for Blackburn.. 11 players score, and that is without Ulinski or the Other Chris Davis...  I just would like to see BC have this kind of game with someone other than IWC or Prin

IWC at Spalding... kinda as I figured, long trip, on a cloud from the Webster game,  then down the drain...In reality, most stats about even, but both teams shoot horribly from the field, but Spalding shoots a little less horribly...

Eureka nips Westminster.... good win on road for Eureka, I'm surprised it was close...Ian Saathoff leads Eureka, but it looks like bench work from Gosset and Behrens was key.. both those guys looked good vs Greenville too.... Sam James 3-11, 8 turnovers... trying to do way too much... Why?   Good player, needs to tone it down... Westmin no (NO) inside game, gets crushed on the boards....  I'm thinking Brandon Moore is really missing the graduated Joe James.. Moore was a pretty consistent scorer last year, but gets only 5 shots, 2 hoops in a tight game....

Gotta call it as I see it

[hopefan]

Hopefan standings:
For now, I'm splitting the league into 6 teams that will compete for the 4 spots in the conference tourney, and four that most likely will not..  (Top 6 are Eureka, Fontbonne, Greenville, Mac, Spalding, Webster.....  Bottom 4 are BC, IWC, Prin, and Westmin)
The 6 teams that are competing are expected to win ALL games vs the bottom 4, and are expected to win Home games against the other 5 in the top 6  (therefore expected to lose on the road to the top 6)

-1 is awarded to a top 6 team for any loss to the bottom 4, and for any loss at home to the other 5 of the top 6.
+1 is awarded for a win on the road vs a top 6

Current hopefan standings:
Spalding   +1   (Won at Mac)
Fontbonne  0   (won at Eureka) (Lost to IWC)
Greenville  0
Webster (-1)    (Lost to Iowa Wes)
Eureka   (-1)    (Lost at home to Fontbonne)
Mac      (-1)     (Lost at home to Spalding)

[y_jack_lok]

Hopefan standings:
For now, I'm splitting the league into 6 teams that will compete for the 4 spots in the conference tourney, and four that most likely will not..  (Top 6 are Eureka, Fontbonne, Greenville, Mac, Spalding, Webster.....  Bottom 4 are BC, IWC, Prin, and Westmin)
The 6 teams that are competing are expected to win ALL games vs the bottom 4, and are expected to win Home games against the other 5 in the top 6  (therefore expected to lose on the road to the top 6)

-1 is awarded to a top 6 team for any loss to the bottom 4, and for any loss at home to the other 5 of the top 6.
+1 is awarded for a win on the road vs a top 6

Current hopefan standings:
Fontbonne +1   (won at Eureka)
Spalding   +1   (Won at Mac)
Greenville  0
Webster (-1)    (Lost to Iowa Wes)
Eureka   (-1)    (Lost at home to Fontbonne)
Mac      (-1)     (Lost at home to Spalding)

FINALLY, the hopefan standings. Eureka must beat Prin tonight or go to -2. Then, tomorrow, Spalding, Fontbonne, and Mac all have to win to not drop points. The only game tomorrow that doesn't affect these standings is Westminster @ IWC.

[hopefan]

A quick look at Midweek games
Tonight..Prin at Eureka.... Interesting to see how the 2 leading candidates for newcomer of the year compare.. Eureka's Ian Saathoff, Prin's Parker Davidson... Saathoff ave 10.5 ppg, 4.7 rpg.... Davidson ave 15.8 ppg, 10.1 ppg.... notice also Prin's Jeff Ross at 10.3 and 5.7... Still, Eureka has shown me some toughness and depth that should earn them a win...

Wednesday night
Webster at Spalding....  I've only seen Spalding once this year, when Greenville clobbered them.... If Webster continues to diminish their reliance on three point shots, they should win this game....the zone has to be quick enough to keep Goeing and Gabriel from getting good looks at the hoop... both of them have been shooting poorly, Webster zone can't let them heat up tomorrow.. Gorlocks, go to the hoop boys, it's an easy game...

Westminster at Iowa Wesleyan... Westmin showed me very little against Prin... IWC showed me alot against Webster.. Despite IWC poor showing at Spalding, I'm in their corner on this one....

BC at Mac.... not an overwhelming performance by Mac in close win over Fontbonne, but the vets will likely amp it up over the young guys playing for BC.. look for BIG nights from Whitlock and Deavis Johnson, hoping they see the ball every time down the court...

Greenville at Fontbonne.... not a good night for Fontbonne to have to play Greenville... think Greenville will want to show they are better than how they played against Webster.... another huge opportunity for Fontbonne to show they can contend....

[Denny McKinney]

Didn't FU lose to IWC?

[hopefan]

Didn't FU lose to IWC?

Good catch Denny   +1.....  will correct hopefan standings

[Denny McKinney]

Just trying to help. Your doing all the work.

[hopefan]

Eureka beats Prin badly... Jeff Ross doesn't play for Prin... Injury?   Role player Joey Sander goes for 22 points, only player in double figures for Prin....what?  Parker Davidson 5 shot attempts?

Eureka 4 starters in double figures... led by Sam James with 17....

[SliacChamp]

From the looks of the box score this was a good Spalding V Webster game. Low turnovers, lots of lead changes, very exciting. I would say the difference of the game was made three pointers. The Spalding V Webster game in St. Louis should prove to be a good and very important game in the SLIAC.

Webster out rebounds Spalding by 5 and loses. That is a very uncommon thing in the basketball universe.

[y_jack_lok]

Webster out rebounds Spalding by 5 and loses. That is a very uncommon thing in the basketball universe.

Really? I've seen lots of games where rebounding stats get inflated because one team gets a bunch of offensive rebounds on one or more possessions and still fails to score, then the other team goes down a gets a quick hoop. I'd love to know in what percentage of games the team that gets the most rebounds also wins the game. I'm sure it's more than 50%, but I'd be surprised if it's 85% or more. So I guess what I'm going for is your definition of "uncommon".

[SliacChamp]

Looks like Webster had 8 offensive. Take away half they still out rebound Spalding. I guess uncommon would be 70%.

[hopefan]

Webster 4 for 17 (23.5%) from 3 point land, 17 for 34 50% from 2 point

Ward and Smith 2 for 9 from 3 point land, 6 for 13 inside line...

Did the defense force this, or......

With the maneuverability and athleticism these two guys have, I cannot for the life of me understand why they spend so much time on the perimeter... (also costing them time at the FT line)... 

I don't feel the talent level this year should have generated a typical Webster-Spalding game... I feel Webster has better talent, significantly better talent, and experience, over Spalding this year....They're just not winning... 3 losses already in conference, they're going to need help if there is any hope left of nabbing the host spot in the conference tourney....

[y_jack_lok]

Webster 4 for 17 (23.5%) from 3 point land, 17 for 34 50% from 2 point

Ward and Smith 2 for 9 from 3 point land, 6 for 13 inside line...

Did the defense force this, or......

With the maneuverability and athleticism these two guys have, I cannot for the life of me understand why they spend so much time on the perimeter... (also costing them time at the FT line)... 

I don't feel the talent level this year should have generated a typical Webster-Spalding game... I feel Webster has better talent, significantly better talent, and experience, over Spalding this year....They're just not winning... 3 losses already in conference, they're going to need help if there is any hope left of nabbing the host spot in the conference tourney....

And they'll need to help themselves just to make the conference tourney. I don't think we should assume anything at this point.

[y_jack_lok]

Looks like Webster had 8 offensive. Take away half they still out rebound Spalding. I guess uncommon would be 70%.

So if the team with fewer rebounds wins more than 30% of games, that would be uncommon. I'd go with that. And, of course, the wider the rebounding margin more of those games should be won by the team that had the most rebounds. There's a task for some statistics freak to look into -- but not me.

[iwumichigander]

Looks like Webster had 8 offensive. Take away half they still out rebound Spalding. I guess uncommon would be 70%.

So if the team with fewer rebounds wins more than 30% of games, that would be uncommon. I'd go with that. And, of course, the wider the rebounding margin more of those games should be won by the team that had the most rebounds. There's a task for some statistics freak to look into -- but not me.

a wider rebound margin normally favors the winning team.  You have to look at second chance points from an offensive rebound perspective and FG% overall.  Winning the rebound margin does not help if you cannot put the ball in the hoop !