MBB: St. Louis Intercollegiate Athletic Conference

[Ryan Scott (Hoops Fan)]

I will be making calls, probably after school gets started (when things get back to normal at my house), and writing something - either early in the season or before.

I went back and looked at some of Greenville's boxscores, many of the technicals were assessed on a small number of players, most of whom have graduated.  I'll be curious to see if that's really a style issue or one specific to personnel.  I'll also be interested in talking to coaches about how those techs are assessed.  Unless there's a lot of head contact in the course of an aggressive defense, you don't see a lot of techs assessed in the backcourt.

Something for us to look into a bit.  Certainly a unique development.  I'm not aware of any other conference that has a similar rule, especially with such serious penalties associated.

[hopefan]

151 128 grinnell. I am embarrassed, not by the score, but by the behavior exhibited by the team that I support.

I made this quote on Nov. 26, 2016 after travelling to Grinnell to see Greenville vs Grinnell....  an omen of things to come

[WUPHF]

It's a conference rule in the SLIAC, so it's only SLIAC conference tourney play that's on the line.

Yes, that part is obvious.

I do acknowledge the flaws in my hypothetical though.

My question was basically who else in Division III would be ineligible for the SLIAC conference due to technical fouls, hypothetically speaking.

Maybe the better question is how many technicals did Greenville (and Eureka for that matter) have two seasons ago?  Three seasons ago? 

Is adjusting to the new rule going to affect the Greenville approach to the system long term?

[hopefan]

It's a conference rule in the SLIAC, so it's only SLIAC conference tourney play that's on the line.

Is adjusting to the new rule going to affect the Greenville approach to the system long term?

I HOPE NOT... from what I've seen, most of the T's are charged due to mouthiness, griping over the line about calls... kids play super aggressive defense, far more opportunities for foul calls, they feel they did their job, and react to the negative call... Coaching staff and players need to temper the reactions..

[y_jack_lok]

Didn't Greenville use to be the model of good sportsmanship and on court behavior before going to the System? That's my memory, anyway.

I am also aware of a couple of unfortunate incidents off the court last season that Greenville players and others connected to Greenville were involved in that resulted in some high level administrative contacts which may be what led to the new sportsmanship guidelines.

[hopefan]

I am also aware of a couple of unfortunate incidents off the court last season that Greenville players and others connected to Greenville were involved in that resulted in some high level administrative contacts which may be what led to the new sportsmanship guidelines.

OUCH...  being away, I hadn't heard about that...  I just see what comes over the internet broadcasts...

And yes... prior to the system, GC was noted for good sportsmanship, raising your hand when you foul, the gathering together for prayer on the court after the game... now, though some of that activity remains, the word hypocritical comes to mind....

[GU1999]

First, the league should consult counsel when drafting rules.  Precision is important.

Just curious, is the SLIAC the first league to have such a rule vis-a-vis teams?  If so, it should stop doing that.  If you want to implement a ('Sheed Wallace Rule or the Dray' Green Rule) player rule so be it.  That way you are taking on an act of education vis-a-vis a kid that may have a temperament issue.  The team thing seems intentionally aimed at the team that has the highest probability of getting the most T.  Here GU.  Which leads me to the next question.   

How do they know that 14 is the right number?  How did they come to .77 T's a game is the bright line.  GU had 15 in the conf. regular season last year.  Their opponents in those 18 games had 11.  Is pace of play a factor?  T's per possession to be considered?  Could tired and edgy refs be quicker to call a T?  Are their more T's called as a result of the combative space invading constant double teaming scramble 100% of the time nature of the GU's defense, the 2+ hours games and the the dozens more 50/50 calls which need to be evaluated by exhausted refs?  I don't know but these things may be a factor.  All these things cut against GU.   GU still is the hand in the air team after fouls.  Frank Cusamano lead with that fact last year during his feature. 

But a serious question, is it T's in league play only? Or only a certain type of T (there are numerous and not all are the kind most upon which most would mete out moral judgement)?  SLIAC please hire a lawyer...

Less serious follow on question, Is it even proper to suggest that getting a T has a moral implication?  Probably not.

George's kids are good kids, not perfect kids, but good kids who have been graduating and becoming productive members of their communities.  The team will have less T's this year I am sure.  It is suspect to think that the rule will play a factor in that as I think it will happen naturally.  And I know for a fact that 15 Ts v. 14 Ts as a team does not make them any better or worse kids. 

Final Comment, GU's tournament game went off the rails.  It was bad.  I do not understand it.   I was disappointed to see it.  Simply put, they collectively lost it.   Why?  IDK.  Leading candidates, having high expectations and getting straight up beat; the tickey tack approach the officials had to the game (it was called super tight); or most likely the fact that they would never lace their shoes up in a competitive manner again which became obvious just about the time they started aggregating Ts.  Not because they were or are bad kids, because it is quite the contrary.  The rest of the season was reasonable to me as an outsider who watched all available games. 

[WUPHF]

It is an interesting philosophical question: is Greenville, by nature of the defense they play, the team most likely to get a technical?  Or, maybe an interesting statistical question.

[y_jack_lok]

It is an interesting philosophical question: is Greenville, by nature of the defense they play, the team most likely to get a technical?  Or, maybe an interesting statistical question.

Yes, I'm interested in an explanation as to why GU1999 says: "The team thing seems intentionally aimed at the team that has the highest probability of getting the most T.  Here GU."

[hopefan]

It is an interesting philosophical question: is Greenville, by nature of the defense they play, the team most likely to get a technical?  Or, maybe an interesting statistical question.

I believe so, exactly as I stated before...The 100% attack defense is going to lead to many many more whistles, which can lead to many more complaints...
What Greenville has to work on (especially the head coach) is to maintain self control when they don't agree with the call... GU's T's, to me, are all those kind of T's, not Flagrant Foul T's...

GU1999... the rule is based on ALL games...

[WUPHF]

And, that is why I say philosophical!

[y_jack_lok]

Other schools play the System. Are they charged with significantly more technicals than other teams?

[hopefan]

Other schools play the System. Are they charged with significantly more technicals than other teams?

The obvious comparison might be made with Grinnell..
BUT

I don't think Grinnell plays the same "system" as Greenville.... Grinnell gives up layups in order to get 3 point shots on the other end.... Greenville attacks the opposition offense in order to get steals and more shots than the opposition....  just my thought, I might be wrong....

[Greek Tragedy]

I thought Grinnell plays a full court press to force turnovers and gives up those easy twos because they are pressing the inbounds pass. Some may mistaken it as hack attack because sometimes the quality of play matches the quality of players.

I think it's unfair to call it the Greenville rule. All because they play an aggressive style of defense doesn't mean you get technicals...are the techs coming from the bench or for fouling too hard, after the whistle activity? What's causing the techs?

[hopefan]

Greenville had 25 techs last year to far and away lead the nation... consequently, the "Greenville rule".... it is not the image the SLIAC wants to present....