MBB: St. Louis Intercollegiate Athletic Conference

[Gregory Sager]

Sorry, Pride. I didn't realize that you were running this room now.

Are you going to chase the Webster guys out of here as well for disagreeing with you about SLIAC scheduling?

[Mac Attack]

Looks like we have someone who likes to stir the pot visiting us again.......

Back to SLIAC basketball....Jerel is a very good player and an even better person. Glad he landed this honor.

"Jerel Robertson of MacMurray College is the St. Louis Intercollegiate Athletic Conference Men's Basketball Player of the Week for the week of December 4-10.

"The Highlanders got off to a great start in the conference race with a pair of road wins, 71-70 over Lincoln Christian, and 71-66 over pre-season favorite Webster, and Robertson led the way.

"The 6-3 sophomore forward from Danville, IL had 16 points and 5 rebounds in the Lincoln Christian win, and 17 points and 16 rebounds in the victory over the Gorloks.

"He made 14 field goals in 19 attempts in the two games."

Hopes are high in Highlander Land. As I said before the season ever started, if MacMurray can avoid academic and health-related issues this year, I think they'll be right in the thick of things the last week of conference chase. We have lost Kowa, which was a big blow. Mac can't lose anyone else. And next season, they will return four starters, along with several key reserves. Greene and Robertson are only sophomores. Mix in a nice recruiting class that Hettinga will hopefully bring in and MacMurray looks to be pretty darn comptitive for a bit.

[hopefan]

Greg Sager - please overlook the spotty overzealousness of some of our more youthful writers - you are welcome here any time, and much appreciated by this veteran of D3 wars......   PANTHER - calm down old buddy

[Mac Attack]

Hope Fan - will you make fc news' picks for this week until we can get him back in the buggy? Only missed the game last night. Time to make the rest of the picks for this week if you can help out. Thanks.

[hopefan]

ok Mac, but I insist  on getting credit for the Rose Hulman win last night  - based on my statement of several days ago that a SLIAC win would be tough to come by this week except Westminster over Illinois College  -  I'll go with Westminster there, non SLIAC otherwise.

I think you  should set pointspreads and incorporate in the pickem's.

[Beaver_SID]

Sorry Fellas but today is my last day in carlinville for this semester, I am returning home to Cahokia, IL. to start my internship job for winter break. I will try to get on at home as much as possible, but we really dont have a stable internet connetion. I will try my best though. See Ya next Semester.

[Mac Attack]

Thanks hopefan....I'll give you/fcnews the RHIT game.

Point spreads might be too hard for all us right now. Maybe next year.

Be careful Beaver_SID...

[pantherpride06]

It seems to be I have been stirring up a ton of stuff w/ my post and I don't mean to sound like a fool or someone like redrum who is only out for trouble because I love posting w/ you guys.  I told FCNews that last Wednesday.  After an extensive conversation with him and others about the topic, I still stick with my stance.  I'm don't going to draw it out like I did last time.

If North CENTRAL is the caliber of teams that are in the CCIW, the coaching staff is the caliber of coaching staff in the CCIW, if the coaches/players attitutes are the caliber of general attitudes in the CCIW, I don't want any part of them.  Why, because they had their noses in the air all weekend here at Greenville.  Facilities not great, sorry.  No Radisson in Greenville, sorry.  No Pondarosa or expensive, nice restruant to eat at, sorry.  All they wanted to do was come in, play, and leave.  And, don't begin to tell me I don't know what I'm talking about because I work hand & hand with this organization.

I don't have a problem w/ you Greg, it's just I'm tired of you and CCIW this and that.  It's easy when you are the best conference in D3.  It's easy for the ACC to gloat because Duke, UNC, Georgia Tech, Maryland... those teams are dominate every year and kick the crap out of what could be the second best conference in america the Big 10 every year.

Scheduling tactics are something that every coach does.  Since I'm an Indiana fan, let's look at them...

11/13/06 vs. Lafayette (NIT Season Tip Off)  Conseco Fieldhouse- Indianapolis, Ind.
11/14/06 vs. Butler  Conseco Fieldhouse-Indianapolis, Ind.
11/17/06 vs. Indiana State  Bloomington, Ind.
11/19/06 vs. Chicago State  Bloomington, Ind.
11/28/06 at Duke (Big Ten/ACC Challenge)  Durham, N.C.
12/02/06 vs. Charlotte  Bloomington, Ind.
12/06/06 vs. Western Illinois  Bloomington, Ind.
12/09/06 at Kentucky  Lexington, Ky.
12/17/06 vs. Southern Illinois  Bloomington, Ind. 8:00 p.m. ET
12/20/06 vs. Western Michigan  Bloomington, Ind. 8:00 p.m. ET
12/22/06 vs. IUPUI  Conseco Fieldhouse- Indianapolis, Ind. 8:00 p.m. ET
12/30/06 vs. Ball State  Bloomington, Ind. 8:00 p.m. ET

Easy/Win games in bold

Oh, did you see what Lincoln did to OSU-Marion???  200 spot on the Scarlet Wave.  No scheduled cupcake there.  OSU isn't even apart of an national organization.  Lincoln is 18th in the nation, are you down on them?

I'm not going to leave the board, but I'm glad it's Christmas break.  Time for me to cool off from this non-sence banter w/ Mr. CCIW.

I'll still be on the board but Greenville doesn't play until Jan 6.  Ill give my predictions.  Have a great break All!  Good luck to the SLIAC against real teams and if you happen to play a cupcake, don't let Greg know.

[Pat Coleman]

Oh, did you see what Lincoln did to OSU-Marion???  200 spot on the Scarlet Wave.  No scheduled cupcake there. 

Indeed, you're right. It was not a scheduled cupcake. Lincoln was at a tournament and had no control over who they played. OSU-Marion was a last-minute replacement for Wayne State, a Division II team.

You should really kinda look around for information like that.

[BunchTime]

Panther, you look more foolish by the day.  "Schedule more wins against the STLCOP."  Great attitude and it is because of your sentiments, and many others who agree, that this conference will not be worth a lick for a long time.

And this is a board for open debate, so get off your high horse and quit telling people to go back to their boards, as if they can't post in this room.  That is the problem here.  There are a bunch of people who are afraid to say anthing that is controversial, because they do not want to stub someone else's toes.  Get over it.  It is illustrated with Fc's behavior!  He was a valuable poster here and a diehard SLIAC fan, yet my comments alomng a few other people's in regards to Fontbonne's weak nonconference schedule ran him off.  Lets quit with the immaturity and show that we can handle comments that we disagree with in a adult way (i.e. rebut the arguement).

[BunchTime]

I think that the aforementioned Indiana schedule you mentioned is also very weak.  For arguement sake, lets take a look at my beloved Missouri Tigers:

vs. North Carolina A&T
vs. Stetson
vs. Lipscomb
vs. Davidson
vs. Stephen F. Austin
vs. Coppin State
vs. Arkansas
vs. Evansville
at Purdue

This is joke.  I am critical of the team that I love.  Indiana's schedule is better, but not tremendously though.  This is analogous of our SLIAC schools playing Moody Bible and Seminary schools.  It is an absolute joke.  Yes, you said it quite well Panther, this is a scheduling tactic that coaches use, out of selfishness to pad their records.  By adding  to their win total, it might even land them in the tournament because it is likely that a Big 10 or Big 12 school who notches 20 wins will be in the tournament; however, Big 10 and Big 12 schools like Indiana and Missouri should be not be content with merely making the tourney, instead it should be a given.  You see very few, if any at all, teams with schedules as such make deep tourney runs.

Accordingly, I don't foresee the SLIAC posting a tourney win in quite some time either, if our schools continue play schedules like they are playing.  But, I guess, it is moot since most people here are content just to send a team to the tourney to get hammered by 30 points.  Yay, for the SLIAC!!!!

[pantherpride06]

I spoke with one of our student-athletes on this topic today.  We play for the SLIAC conference season.  If we are playing schools and getting roasted, come conference time, the kids are down.  We were 1-9 going into conference last season.  And we played Concordia Ill, Dominican Ill, Eureka,Taylor Ind, Transylvania, Wabash, and McKendree.  Seven decent to great schools.  Taylor, Transylvania, Wabash, and McKendree always does well in their conference or tournaments (NAIA/NCAA).  Our guys didn't look forward to playing second semester.  Going 1-9 or 0-9 discounting Logan hurts a program more than helps.  Turn around and go 5-9 in conference, well 3-9 discounting Principia because they weren't any good.  So, now you are looking at the program going 3-18 on the season.  

A program cannot survive having seasons where you work hard and go 3-18 or whatever the case may be.  You cannot recruit after consecutive bad losing seasons.  Wait, let me rephrase. You cannot recruit at a small school like Greenville.  Webster can recruit well because you are in inner city St. Louis.  You have attractions.  We can use St. Louis as an attraction, but kids have to drive miles to get to these attractions.  We live in an instant gratitute society.

Getting guarnteed wins do not hurt your program.  When you have a non-conference schedule of 7 games, having one or two does not hurt.  My goodness.  It's crazy to think that scheduling has stirred this much of an uproar.  They schedule guarntee wins at the high school level just to make sure you get a win or two.  It's crazy to this that Coach Bunch does not look at his schedule and say, "Let's schedule this school.  Should be a win and not a difficult one."  

Panther, you look more foolish by the day.  "Schedule more wins against the STLCOP."  Great attitude and it is because of your sentiments, and many others who agree, that this conference will not be worth a lick for a long time.

I an not foolish, I am thinking about the small schools.  As our our Commissioner has already pointed out, the SLIAC is not going to get more than one nod to the NCAA Tournament.  We play for the conference tournament.  A win v. STLCOP or Concordia (Mo.) give you a little motiavation for the next game.

I have been apart of Basketball for 10 years.  Of those, I have had one winning season.

96-97: 8-14
97-98 : 5-17
98-99 : 9-12
99-00 : 11-14
00-01 : 7-17
01-02 : 6-18 **
____
02-03 : 9-15
03-04 : 19-8
04-05 : 9-16
05-06 : 7-18

My senior year of HS, we won the first game of the year on Nov. 20.  One a game at Christmas by two, didnt win another game until late February.  We won two games in about 70 days.  We quit.  The team quit because it wasn't worth getting beat all the time.  I can't speak for anyone but myself.  But, I know the guys that come here have never had a losing record.  So, going 7-18 is tough.  Getting a few wins are good for them.  If we go 0-7 in pre-conference play, they will quit as our guys did last year.

Guys, I am not, as BunchTime put it "Foolish."  I am probably the least foolish person you'll meet.  I am, however, speaking from what I know.  Come to Greenville, Illinois and run a program.  It's not as easy as what you may think.  You have to find small edges to get kids here.  If we say we lost 20 games last year, they won't want to come.  We have issues with that now with 15-16 loss seasons.

Gregory, its easy again for you to do all this talking because you apart of the CCIW and you have how many national titles?  I'm love to be as strong or dominate as the CCIW.  But they way to do it isn't taking a beating each season by you guys.

Hopefan is right, i am a young poster.  I know most of your are men who have been through the system and know the ways it's been run and have your opinions, but I do too.  And being a vital part of the system here at Greenville, I know how things work and what works best for us.  Success is getting great kids in the program and winning some ball games.  We'd love to beat people all the time and travel all over doing it, but we can't.  We struggle finding the money to go to St. Louis 3 times, Westminster, and Eureka/Lincoln was season.  

As stated before, the CCIW schools don't want to come to our gym.  I was alerted to this when learning about the North Central coach not wanting to come here.  We had to say we'd go up there and play before he'd come here.  Naperville would be a super long trip for our program and will cost some money.  So, take that x7 to Elmhurst, IWU, Augie...  wow.

In closing, again I don't want to come across as some young punk or a**hole who doesn't know what he's talking about.  I just want you to realize Mr. CCIW that it's not as simple as you think.  You either Bunch.

[pantherpride06]

IYes, you said it quite well Panther, this is a scheduling tactic that coaches use, out of selfishness to pad their records.

Kelvin Sampson (Indiana) and Mike Anderson (Missouri) are selfish coaches?  They are padding their records?  If anyone is speaking out of foolishness, it's you Bunch.  Are you saying the Coach K & Luke Olsen are padding their wins with games v. Davidson and Samford or Bob Knight by scheduling North Dakota State?  Wow!

[BunchTime]

Panther, I will attempt to adress the various points you presented.  First off, as to your SAanmpson, Anderson, and Coach K point that you make....Then please tell me why Anderson has a bunch of scrub teams come in to play at Mizzou Arena.  I don't think it is to prepare his team to play the likes of KU, Oklahoma State, or Texas A&M....do you?  And the other coaches you mentioned generally play tough non-conference schedules, however, at that level sometimes it is difficult to continue to march top 25 teams in to play.  Further, these programs that you speak of are well established and have little to prove to others, which cannot be said of the SLIAC.  When you are attemtping to garner some recognition and build the conference reputation, then you must play teams that don't have Bible, Seminary, and Chiropractic in their name.

And you speak of Greenville's schedule in which they played tough competition and they weren't excited to play the second half, first off, you were right in that the competition was tough.  This is exactly why I am suggesting playing the likes of the CCIW'S, HCAC and other midwest conference celler dwellers.  Once we prove that we can beat (or play competiviely) them with some sort of regularity, then we can gradually move up the ladder.  I have always contended that we do not need to go out and play IWU and the likes, but first we can play the bottom tier teams of other midwest conferences and remove the "cupcakes."  This would be a start!  And kids are smarter than you are giving them credit for Panther.  Recruits will know if an impressive record was inflated due to a weak schedule.  Incidently, recruits will also know that an unimpressive record was because their prospective team goes out and plays formidable competition.  You really believe wins against a Concordia Seminary is a selling point to a recruit?

I share your frustration on the recruiting side of things; however, nothing will change soon, so we must get over it and deal with it and just start playing some teams and playing them competively.  Kids will not care what town or what gym they are playing in if they are playing for a "winner."  It will be a long process but it must start somewhere!

[pantherpride06]

I will refer back to budgeting.

Anderson (Anderson, Indiana) - 237 miles - $213 just to drive
Bluffton (Bluffton, Ohio) - 384 miles - $345 just to drive
Definance (Definance, Ohio) - 365 miles - $328 just to drive
Franklin (Franklin, Indiana) - 261 miles - $234 just to drive
Hanover (Hanover, Indiana) - 290 miles - $261 just to drive
Manchester (North Manchester, Indiana) - 299 miles - $270 just to drive
Mt. St. Joseph (Cincinnati, Ohio) - 303 miles - $272 just to drive
Rose Hulman (Terre Haute, Indiana) - 120 miles - $108 just to drive
Transylvania (Lexington, Kentucky) - 322 miles - $289 just to drive

There are you HCAC schools.  That does not include paying for food for the kids and lodging in most places.  We don't have a charter bus.  So, the coaches and assistants drive.  So we drive, coach, and drive back.

I'm not making excuses, I'm giving you some facts here for atleast Greenville.  It's funny we are telling our men to play tougher schools and telling the women that we need to make a NCAA D-4.

I also know kids aren't dumb and I don't take them for that.  I do know that seeing a program with a 7-18 record they are going to frown at when they could go someplace else with a winning record.  So what happens when we do schedule these schools and get pounded for 2 or 3 years.  We become the HCAC or CCIW's cupcake.  Then we are in the same cycle again.  Right?  Why don't we let the coach do what he needs to do to make the program successful.  We can't win a NCAA Championship.  Getting the the tournament if super for us.  Playing well in the NCAA Tournament is well.  Getting beat by 20 or winning by 20, if we play well, is sucessful for us.