MBB: St. Louis Intercollegiate Athletic Conference

[BunchTime]

When discussing the scheduling, I am merely speaking from the perspective of the SLIAC.  If I weren't, another D3 school who plays a SLIAC school would be committing the same type of scheduling mistake in playing a "cupcake" that I accuse many SLIAC schools of doing.  Thus, for our purposes I will focus my attention on the SLIAC.

Because D3 is restricted in who they can play as a result of budgeting, I firmly believe that schools in the SLIAC should and do not have trouble in scheduling other D3's from outside of the conference.  Furthermore, if budgeting is a concern, any of the SLIAC schools have numerous options in who they could play as evidenced by Sager and I providing a list of potential opponents to Panther (for Greenville); all of which would likely be competitive games, in most years.  I contend, and have, that we should play opponents based on what kind of team a coach has also, which is why I suggest playing bottom of the barrel teams from other D3 conferences before playing a group of priests that the Seminary throws on the court.  If SLIAC schools need to resort to this, there is really something grossly wrong.

[Gregory Sager]

Who knows what EC will end up at this season, but they are 5-2 so far and has again played all games versus D3 competition.

I'd be willing to bet that Eureka does very well for itself in its maiden voyage in the SLIAC this season, for two reasons. First, the Red Devils are simply a good team, very respectable by general D3 standards. All of the NPU coaches said this following the narrow win by the Vikings @ Eureka two weeks ago, and when I commented to one of them after the Red Devils had beaten Millikin that I was surprised by the outcome, he replied, "You shouldn't be surprised -- Eureka's good. They have a couple of big men in Tarpley and Richard that can really hurt you." Although it's still too early in the season for the Massey ratings to mean much, they do bear out the assertions of the North Park coaches regarding Eureka. Here's how the SLIAC's teams are ranked among the 404 full and provisional members of D3 according to the latest Massey rating taken on Monday:

Westminster	65
Eureka	144
MacMurray	224
Webster	229
Maryville	272
Blackburn	305
Greenville	342
Fontbonne	377
Principia	388
Lincoln Christian	398

The second thing that Eureka has going for it, as ESID mentioned, is strength of schedule. All of Eureka's non-conference games will be played against D3 teams, not just the games that have been played thus far; there's not a club team or a Bible school to be found. And it's a very well-balanced schedule, too, that follows the line of thinking that Bunch Time keeps pointing out with regard to smart SLIAC coaches finding winnable D3 games for their teams. All of Eureka's non-conference opponents -- Manchester, Alma, Knox, North Park, Millikin, and Dominican -- are from better leagues than the SLIAC, but they're also all teams that were subpar in those better leagues last season, and in all but one case they've been subpar for quite some time.

Eureka head coach Jay Bruer has got this thing figured out. I expect his Red Devils to be quite successful in this league.

[Mac Attack]

Maryville (Mo.) 67 at Washington U. 101

Wonder how the Saints are feeling this morning after this quality loss...

On the other hand, I would rather lose to Wash U by 34 than beat a club team by 34 - providing this was an isolated situation. "Playing up" can be extremely helpful to a program in many ways - but I wouldn't think any program would want to make a habit out of being routinely thrashed. Sager correctly points out that Eureka seems to have figured it out. Schedule opponents from stronger conferences, but schedule teams that are primarily not in the upper echelon within those conferences. MacMurray is doing the same thing. It wasn't too long ago when the Highlanders were playing non-conference games way over their head and getting their lunch handed to them night in and night out. Hopefully those days are over.

It just takes time, along with a solid coach and players, to build a program to the level where it can step up and play much stronger opponents without getting embarressed. Once you have reached that level, the recruting should pick up because kids want to travel some, and play against quality competition in quality facilities. I think that's where MacMurray is headed, along with upgrading our own facilities at the same time.

Another issue, in my opinion,  is enrollment. Eureka has an enrollment of around 500. MacMurray's is around 750. Blackburn, Lincoln Christian, and Principia around 600. Westminster at 900. Then comes Greenville (1,200), Maryville (1,500), and then Webster and Fontbonne, both over 2,000. Can you make the case that the smaller the school, the more difficult it is to compete?

I think it's interesting that the SLIAC has some schools that are three and four times the size of other conference schools. Some of these schools are in primarily rural areas, while others are in the heart of a metropolitan area. Makes for a very unique geographical and demographical conference. But building a successful basketball program at a smaller school is not as difficult as building a successful football program, primarily because you need fewer players. You still need quality kids (and an administration that enthusiastically supports the program) - just not as many of them.

Eureka's basketball team will do just fine in the SLIAC. But their football team has been a door mat for several years. Eureka will be a member in the new SLIAC football conference, and if so, their football fortunes could change. Same for MacMurray, Blackburn, and Greenville - although I'm not sure how good the four Minnesota teams will be.... but that's another sport, another season, ....

Back to basketball....

I asked this question and didn't get a response - so I'll ask again. Do any of the other SLIAC schools webcast their basketball games?

[Mac Attack]

Looks to me like both Maryville and Washington U shot very well. Both teams were 50% or better from the field and 40% or better from 3pt land. But Washington took 26 more shots and Maryville had 25 turnovers (to Wash U's 12), and that was probably the difference. It was a 10 point game late in the first half but things apparently fell apart for the Saints the last 90 seconds before the break. Things got progressively worse in second half. Maryville freshmen Tyler Saxton must have played a pretty good game (15 pts on 6-8 shooting). Fontbonne is up next for Washington U - will be interesting to compare the two games.

[y_jack_lok]

I saw the Maryville-Wash U game. At one point it was 34-33 Wash U. Then, before you knew it, it was 50-37 Wash U. Seems like coach Rogers of Maryville is still experimenting with combinations of players, and I suspect he'll continue to do that for a while. It's tough to graduate your top six players, then put together a cohesive team.

Speaking of that, Eureka's 3 best players are all seniors. While they have some good players that come off the bench, this first year in the SLIAC might be Eureka's best shot at a championship.

[Mac Attack]

y_jack_lok - You've seen Maryville and Fontbonne. Assuming MacMurray plays at the same level as it did against Webster, how would you compare the Highlanders to the Griffins and Saints, and how do you see those match-ups turning out based on what you've seen so far?

[hopefan]

Maryville played very competitve ball for about 15 minutes last night.  Freshmen Jared McCoy and Tyler Saxton, and 3rd guard Teddy McGrath are quick and can generate points if people are hitting from the wings, and Maryville was making shots.  It was obvious though that Wash U was scoring easily many times down the court, and it was just a matter of time before they broke it open.   Maryville needs to work on their man to man defense ALOT - it was just too easy for Wash U .   On the other hand, if they can play at the level they did in the first half, they will be able to win Conference games.   Big man Matt Deimeke showed a new side last night - he really banged with Troy Ruths - Most of Ruths points seemed to come against Bollinger or Holland - On one play in particular Demicke blocked a Ruth drive so solidly that it sprawled Ruth out of bounds (ok - shoulda been a foul).  If Coach Rogers can get a couple of solid 6'4", 6'5" types in his next recruiting class, or if Aaron Steinke could beef up to play to his size, MU could be very good in a year or two.

The new Blackburn coach was at the game last night - Y Jack and I chatted with him for awhile - very quiet - very removed from last job Averett (was not aware Averett was rated this year) - nice guy, but such a different personality from the loud exciting Basketball that I associate with Blackburn.
Talking with him at halftime, he was very impressed with MU's first half, and said how tough MU would be to prepare for due to so many different guys playing.

[y_jack_lok]

Mac, as I said in an earlier post, I try not to predict outcomes, which is why I don't join the "Pick 'em" group. Having said that, I think the games will be very competitive. I think both Maryville and Fontbonne rely more on their guards and on speed, whereas Webster looks to get the ball inside more.

[Mike Owl]

If a team is looking to get at at large bid, the only game that count are NCAA Division III in region games.  Nothing else will help their case.  The NAIA schools that are close to home may be a nice game for travel reasons but what is the ultimate goal.  If a school has the goal of becoming a contender in the region then it must play in region games.  The chances of getting an at large bid is extremely low even in the power conferences.  There are just not enough spots available.  If a team in the SLIAC wants to become a national contender the best outline to follow is Gonzaga.  Win your conference every year and make the NCAA tournament, then from there find a way to win a game, then find a way to make a run.  This is at least a 6 year plan.  It is tough to not have a down year (or someone else have a great year) for 6 years, but unless the rest of the league steps up and contends with the "Big Boys" it is the only way.

[pantherpride06]

Greenville webcast most of their home games on 89.5 WRGN (www.wgrn.net).  I usually link this up on D3Hoops.com along w/ posting a score every time out.

As for the scheduling debate, I'm throwing in my towel.  Obviously what we are doing at Greenville is sub-standard.  I'll let Coach Barber know that we well it's not good scheduling STLCOP & Logan each year.  I'll tell him to only schedule NCAA III Schools.  Then next year, we will sit here and say, Greenville is getting pounded in and out.  What a tough schedule.  I heard it last year w/ Transy and Wabash.

[Beaver_SID]

Another issue, in my opinion,  is enrollment. Eureka has an enrollment of around 500. MacMurray's is around 750. Blackburn, Lincoln Christian, and Principia around 600. Westminster at 900. Then comes Greenville (1,200), Maryville (1,500), and then Webster and Fontbonne, both over 2,000. Can you make the case that the smaller the school, the more difficult it is to compete?

Enrollment defenitly makes it harder for schools to compete in any sport. We see this at Bc every year. Although we see good retention of players for Basketball and Baseball but for any other sport its a new team every year, no leadership or experience for any team. Also, being capable to cut players weeds out the weaker players, Blackburn on the other hand, has dressed every kid that has came to practice since I started there. Maybe a slight disadvantage over teams that get 40-50 kids out for the team, Ya know.

[y_jack_lok]

Beaver_SID, are you saying that some SLIAC schools have 40-50 students try out for basketball, or were you talking about football, baseball, soccer, etc.?

[Daryl L Lloyd]

Beaver_SID, are you saying that some SLIAC schools have 40-50 students try out for basketball, or were you talking about football, baseball, soccer, etc.?

I was wondering the same thing Y_jack. I hope he wasnt implying that the larger STL schools get that many players out for the team, they are no where close to that.

[sully309]

Nice info Sager. Hopefully Eureka will make North Park's win over EC look REALLY good at the end of the year.

I'm sure Beaver is talking about football. That sounds a lot like Eureka's football team. We had 57 players this year after only 40 or so the year before. The SLIAC football conference will hopefully lead to more closely contested games week in and week out. Greenville and Mac will go from the hunters to the hunted.

[Gregory Sager]

Another issue, in my opinion,  is enrollment. Eureka has an enrollment of around 500. MacMurray's is around 750. Blackburn, Lincoln Christian, and Principia around 600. Westminster at 900. Then comes Greenville (1,200), Maryville (1,500), and then Webster and Fontbonne, both over 2,000. Can you make the case that the smaller the school, the more difficult it is to compete?

The enrollment issue is overrated. If sheer numbers determined a school's athletic abilities, then all of the big state schools out east with 9,000 of more students (e.g., Buffalo State, UMass-Boston, and CCNY) would be perennially dominant. As it is, the state-school leagues out east (LEC, SUNYAC, MASCAC, CUNYAC), with the exception of the NJAC, are all pretty bad -- and yet they dwarf all but a tiny handful of other D3 schools in terms of the size of their student bodies.

The reason why enrollment is of such limited importance is because most varsity sports, especially the major men's sports such as basketball, football, and baseball, don't draw their players from the general student pool. Those teams consist of students who were specifically recruited to come and play there. The general student pool only comes into play when you're talking about unknown walk-ons, and those types of players seldom play an important role in a team's fortunes. If the 12 players that I recruited are better than the 12 players that you recruited, my basketball team is going to beat your basketball team in spite of the fact that your school has 5,000 students and mine only has 800.

If a team is looking to get at at large bid, the only game that count are NCAA Division III in region games.  Nothing else will help their case.  The NAIA schools that are close to home may be a nice game for travel reasons but what is the ultimate goal.  If a school has the goal of becoming a contender in the region then it must play in region games.

Of course. My point was that NAIA schools present a better alternative than club teams and Bible schools if you can't find enough D3 schools to play that are within the radius allowed by your travel budget.