MBB: St. Louis Intercollegiate Athletic Conference

[sully309]

Sager, you said on this board that you valued actual results more than preseason projections, yet ignored an actual result (the 80-67 game) in favor of a preseason projection. That Eureka lost big tonight really has nothing to do with my point.

Yes, I get it. North Park beat Eureka twice. They're better right now. Quite frankly, I find it strange you feel the need to use tired excuses for a 25 point win! What you failed to mention was the Red Devils weren't exactly humming along at top efficiency either, actually shooting worse from 3-point range and 29% overall.

Who really cares if you can win by 40, anyway? Do you get to count those as double? When a team wins by 13 and 25, hasn't it pretty much been established they're the better team? Hopefan can even figure that one out  .  You don't need to try to impress us on the board by saying your team could have won by 40.

I shot a 78 this summer, but if I would have hit the green every time I was in the fairway and made all my putts inside of 5 feet, I could have broke par. Yeah, sounds pretty lame, doesn't it? Excuses, excuses...

[Gregory Sager]

Sager, you said on this board that you valued actual results more than preseason projections, yet ignored an actual result (the 80-67 game) in favor of a preseason projection.

ESID, I've already explained to you my basis for making the "markedly inferior" statement about Eureka vis-a-vis NPU. I didn't base the statement upon the SLIAC preseason poll. I didn't look at the SLIAC preseason poll. I didn't care what the SLIAC preseason poll had to say about Eureka. I still don't care.

You leaped to the conclusion that I had based the statement upon the SLIAC preseason poll. I gave you no evidence whatsoever to draw that conclusion. You came up with that theory on your own.

I based my statement upon knowing what NPU brought back this season in terms of returnees and what Eureka brought back, coupled with the fact (which I didn't mention earlier) that Eureka went through an offseason coaching change. I don't know why this is so hard for you to believe. If you insist upon thinking that somehow Eureka's standing in the SLIAC preseason poll (whatever that may have been) matters to me, then I can't stop you from doing so. But you're wrong to think that. As I said, I don't know where Eureka stood in that poll, and I don't care.

Yes, I get it. North Park beat Eureka twice. They're better right now.

No. They're better. Period. End of sentence.

Quite frankly, I find it strange you feel the need to use tired excuses for a 25 point win!

No "tired excuses" here, simply the truth. You've made a big thing about the fact that I wasn't at Saturday's game; well, I was at tonight's game, and I saw a boatload of missed open trey attempts by North Park players who usually shoot them very well (f'rinstance, Nick Williams, who was the third-best trey shooter in the CCIW last season at a .486 clip, went 1-5 from downtown tonight) and really bad FT shooting. And it wasn't Eureka that made them miss; you can't take defensive credit for a missed FT or a missed wide-open trey.

What you failed to mention was the Red Devils weren't exactly humming along at top efficiency either, actually shooting worse from 3-point range and 29% overall.

Eureka didn't get that many open looks. NPU played very good defense, for the most part (there was some breakdown in the interior in the second half, leading to some close-in buckets for the Red Devils). For the most part, the reason why Eureka wasn't "humming along at top efficiency" was because NPU's athleticism and depth didn't allow the Red Devils to do so.

Who really cares if you can win by 40, anyway?

Nobody. I didn't say that anyone cared. I never assume that anyone cares about what I post. It's easier for me that way.

Do you get to count those as double? When a team wins by 13 and 25, hasn't it pretty much been established they're the better team? Hopefan can even figure that one out  .  You don't need to try to impress us on the board by saying your team could have won by 40.

You're missing the point.

You got all up in my grill Tuesday morning about the fact that I called Eureka "markedly inferior" to North Park. Well, the Vikings went out and proved it. Don't shoot the messenger.

I shot a 78 this summer, but if I would have hit the green every time I was in the fairway and made all my putts inside of 5 feet, I could have broke par. Yeah, sounds pretty lame, doesn't it? Excuses, excuses...

Golf analogies are lost on me. I'm a bowler. If you want to send an analogy my way, make it have something to do with picking up 1-3 spares.

[furbug]

Yes, Hopefan, you will always see me lurking at the Webster games, both men's and women's.  I do not miss one without a good reason, such as last night's women's game, when I had a class to teach.

Comments by you and others on the first Webster weekend have been quite thorough, so I have little to add. I agree that the officiating in the Hanover game was poor. Daryn was being mauled underneath with many incidents not called. His frustration with it was obvious. I did think, however, that the officiating in the Transylvania game was good. I thought they called a tight game, but fair.

Webster's defense came up strong, especially in the Transylvania game, which limited them to mostly perimeter shoots, which they were missing. I think that will be a key improvement from last year if it continues. Brad Robinson looked very good, both offensively and defensively.

[sully309]

OK, I think I now know the cause for our misunderstanding. Sager has drawn a distinct difference between conference preseason polls and his own preseason projections. I guess I can't fault him for that, since I don't question his ability to more accurately predict what will happen...especially in this case because his prediction ended up being right.

Stepping back, it seems petty to be arguing about something like this to begin with, so I must apologize for wasting everyone's time. I should have caught on quicker to what Sager was saying (though I'm sure many enjoyed Sager's wizard-like use of the quoting option). The dead horse has definitely been beaten on this topic, so let us move on. I should say that it wasn't necessary for you to bash in the horse's head with your bowling ball, Sager. 

[FU Fan]

Here's some pertinent info on the storm at Fontbonne.
When one player makes a suggestion at what type of play is needed and another player tells him "  to shut the #### up " that can make for a pretty good fire.
The coach must coach his team and has no time in a tight game to settle differences with players. NO EXCUSE FOR  A BAD TEMPER.
Let's just say inside play won the game.
Let's also say appologizes were exchained between players and hopefully that ends it.

[Gregory Sager]

I should have caught on quicker to what Sager was saying (though I'm sure many enjoyed Sager's wizard-like use of the quoting option).

Just call me the D3 Gandalf. 

I should say that it wasn't necessary for you to bash in the horse's head with your bowling ball, Sager. 

Yikes. Good thing that nothing deters me from eating turkey, yams, and mashed potatoes, because that disturbing mental picture would've otherwise put me off my feed the day before Thanksgiving, ESID.

[y_jack_lok]

Just checked the "Milestones" page of this website. The 1,000 point milestone reached by Webster's Darrin Hoggatt on Friday night isn't posted there yet. Hope it shows up soon.

[Gregory Sager]

Just checked the "Milestones" page of this website. The 1,000 point milestone reached by Webster's Darrin Hoggatt on Friday night isn't posted there yet. Hope it shows up soon.

Send an e-mail to the Webster SID and ask him or her to convey this information to Pat. There's an SID link on d3hoops.com's front page. As a rule, Pat wants SIDs to relay this sort of information to him, rather than taking it as gospel truth when informed about it from fans on the message boards. This is what SIDs get paid to do.

(Also, it's football playoffs time, so Pat's incredibly busy right now. I doubt that he has the time to read every message board at the moment.)

Don't just assume that this will get done. If you want to see this achievement get mentioned in "Milestones", be proactive about it!

[y_jack_lok]

Greg, I actually put that out there for the Webster athletics department, who I know read the board. However, I agree that an e-mail to them, as you suggested, would be more effective and would avoid the confusion I created. I know Pat needs to hear directly from the school, so I apologize if he thinks I meant he should post the milestone based on the info from me. I'm surprised none of the Webster posters mentioned it after the Transy game. I wasn't at that game, but I imagine an announcement might have been made during the game. One of my friends, who seldom posts, mentioned it to me in an e-mail after the game.

[Pat Coleman]

I actually did read this board, though it's the first time in a few days.

y_jack: an e-mail from them or a link to the release on their site would do. I don't have time to hunt for it myself right now, though. Sorry.

[y_jack_lok]

Pat, it does not appear that Webster has mentioned Hoggatt's milestone on the athletics website, so I can't send  you a link. I'm sure they will get around to mentioning it and/or sending it to you in due course.

[fcnews]

Sager maybe it would help newcommers if you gave a short intro so they know where you've been and how many games you've seen. We haven't always agreed on things but I do respect your knowledege and your time invested.

[Gregory Sager]

Thanks, fcnews.

I'm an alumnus of North Park, class of '83. My freshman year (1979-80) was the third year of North Park's threepeat D3 national championship team, so I was hooked on D3 basketball immediately upon entering college. I've thus been an avid fan of North Park basketball for 28 years.

I've lived within the city of Chicago ever since I came here to go to North Park, so I'm able to take advantage of the large number of D3 schools in the area to see as many games as possible every year -- mostly North Park games and CCIW games in general, but also plenty of U. of Chicago games and a few games at Lake Forest, Dominican, Concordia (IL), Aurora, and Benedictine per year as well. I usually see somewhere between thirty and fifty D3 men's games a year, not including JV games. In addition, I'm the official scorekeeper for North Park women's basketball games, so I see a dozen or so women's games per year as I'm working the table, although I don't usually follow the NPU women's team on the road or go to other gyms for non-NPU women's games.

This is my tenth year as a participant on Pat's website, which as far as I'm concerned has been an absolute godsend to my D3 basketball hobby and for which I am heavily indebted to Pat (as are all of us who count ourselves big fans of one D3 school or another, or of small-college sports in general).

[fcnews]

Well said Greg. Just remember we here at the sliac room don't puy as much importance on spelling and grammar. It is more just get the info out.

Has anyone seen Robert Morris - Springfield play yet this year?

[Gregory Sager]

Has anyone seen Robert Morris - Springfield play yet this year?

Not me, but since NPU is playing the Eagles in a few weeks I'm as curious to find out about them as you are.

RMCS has started the season 2-4, but that doesn't tell us much. The Eagles beat a pair of Bible colleges pretty handily, lost to local juco Lincoln Land in two overtimes -- a head-scratcher, that one -- and have just lost three straight games to D2 schools by 20+ points apiece. From what I remember about RMCS after seeing the Eagles last December, I can tell you that the best player for the Eagles was their center, 6'6 senior Corley Lee. He will beat you off the dribble, or he will back you in and score from the blocks -- he's a very versatile offensive player. What I'm not sure of is the sort of squad that surrounds Lee this season; RMCS tends to have a lot of roster fluctuation from year to year.