MBB: St. Louis Intercollegiate Athletic Conference

[Pioneer Hoops Fan]

Pioneer fan - St Louis (SLIAC officials) are, in my mind, really subpar - no consistancy one official to another, one play from another.  I did not blame your fans (there were 40-50) for being upset, and generally they handled it pretty well, as compared to one Auggie fan who screamed at the refs EVERY time down the floor.  Your #42, the good forward, was particularly snake bit, and never got into his game because of fouls.

To be quite honest, I can't recall significant turnover/steal activity  - they collapsed hard on Skemp and took it away from him several times (otherwise he had a fantastic game), and they stole a couple of longer passes when Pville was trying to get breaks....

I appreciate your take on it.  Every team, regardless of who or where or what the score has gripes with the officials, but that is why people in the stands don't get whistles.  They see everything and there for the visiting team would never win.  #42 is Kyle Tetschlag.  He always has his motor running full boar.  Very good player but with his all out style, does tend to foul.  He has been under much more control this year thus far.  Teams are going to sink down on Skemp all year, and he is going to have to learn how to deal with that.  But I find it hard to believe that if teams (not just Wash U) are doubling down a particular player, that he isn't going to get fouled.  He was 11/12 from the floor and had 23 pts, so he made only 1 FT.  

Anywho, what happened happened, so at this point all I can hope for is a 3-0 start to the conference season!

Thanks for your input again.

[fcnews]

Hopefan - You were very discreet in your description of the St. Louis refs.  

[y_jack_lok]

Yes, hopefan was discreet, and Pioneer Hoops Fan very realistic, about officiating. I have seen comments posted about officials in other conferences/regions and they are almost universally negative. One Plateville fan sitting in front of us yesterday was understandably unhappy about some calls. At one point we spoke briefly and I asked her if she thought the officiating in their conference was good. Her response was that the officiating at the high school level was better. I took that response as a "no" to my question.

I think we also need to be careful about referring to the officials we see as SLIAC, or even St.  Louis, officials. I know many of the same officials work at Wash U UAA conference games. But I also expect many of them officiate at other schools/conferences in the region, perhaps working Illinois College games, possibly even traveling as far as Illinois Wesleyan, Millikin, etc. depending on where they live. I don't know anything about getting certified as an official, so someone clue me in. Is it possible that these same officials could work NAIA (Lindenwood, McKendree, etc.) and even some D2 (UMSL, UM-Rolla, etc) games?

[fcnews]

Yjak you are right. The officials that call in the sliac also call for the miaa and some home UAA games. But, it is a very select few. Most do a majority of their work in our conference. Three familar faces called the FU JV v. Lindenwood JV game tonite. A lot of the SLIAC officials have been calling for us for 10 yrs. or more. That is where the problems incur.

[Gregory Sager]

I think we also need to be careful about referring to the officials we see as SLIAC, or even St.  Louis, officials. I know many of the same officials work at Wash U UAA conference games. But I also expect many of them officiate at other schools/conferences in the region, perhaps working Illinois College games, possibly even traveling as far as Illinois Wesleyan, Millikin, etc. depending on where they live. I don't know anything about getting certified as an official, so someone clue me in. Is it possible that these same officials could work NAIA (Lindenwood, McKendree, etc.) and even some D2 (UMSL, UM-Rolla, etc) games?

I'm not sure how the SLIAC does it, but the CCIW has a director of officiating for each sport -- in the case of men's basketball, it's a veteran ref who also works a lot of games himself -- and a roster of officials who are state-certified. They're the only ones who are authorized to work any games at all in the CCIW's eight gyms, not just league games. They are assigned to CCIW games, both conference and non-conference, by the league office. Most of them work NAthCon, MWC, and U of Chicago games as well, and many of them also work local D1 and D2 games. It's not unusual for me to turn on the TV and see a Big Ten game in which there's a CCIW ref who is part of that Big Ten crew. Of course, most of them work plenty of local high school games as well.

CCIW officials are graded by the league's coaches after every game. Just because you have state certification to officiate a college basketball game doesn't mean that you can ref a CCIW game. You have to be on that roster in order to do so.

Having said all that, the CCIW officiating roster varies widely in terms of competence, and you'll find that there's as much complaining about the refs in our league as there is anywhere else. We have certain officials in our league who, when I see them walk into a gym wearing the uni, make me roll my eyes because I know that it's going to be a poorly-reffed game. However, someone needs to put in a good word for the men in stripes as a whole. Most of them are good at what they do, and none of them are getting rich doing it. It's a wonder that any of them are willing to do the job at all, given the working conditions. It's a thankless task, and for too many fans out there the ref is always right when he's calling a foul on the other team and always wrong when he's calling a foul on yours.

[y_jack_lok]

fcnews & sager, thanks for that info. Very helpful in understanding the realities of officiating.

[Pioneer Hoops Fan]

I couldn't tell you about the WIAC as far as a director of officials.  I'm not sure if the schools are in charge of finding the officials or not.  I'm leaning towards conference assigning officials, because we generally see the same sort of guys for home games, but we will also see them in Stevens Point, and at times in EC, Stout, or River Falls, although rarely.

I'm also agreeing with Greg in saying that it is a thankless job.  Many people get into it that shouldn't.  I'm actually on the brink of getting started in doing this thankless job.  With my job, I can't coach.  I don't get off work early enough to make it to the gym and instruct, so I felt that if I could get into officiating, and learn the trade it would be the best for me to stay near the game.  I think that is the same for many of the officials doing our games.  They wanted to be near the game, and this may have been the only option.

There is a saying in the officiating world and that is "As an official, the only friend you have in the world is your partner(s)" As evident in the conversation, everyone pretty much dislikes the zebras, so the only person for that 1 or 2 hours you're working you can trust, is the other guy or gal dressed in the same uniform you're wearing.

[right_guard]

Blackburn lost another one.  This time by 28 to Illinois College....Illinois College was allowed to pick up the pace and got too many easy baskets in transition.  If the Beavers don't do anything quick, it will be a VERY LONG season.  They play RMC-S on Thursday, hopefully they can figure out a way to keep a game within 10 pts atleast, any word on RMC-S?

[fcnews]

RMC-S has one guy, Lee, who is capeable of controling the offensive end of the floor if allowed. They are always very athletic. Beatable, Yes. But, will test any sliac team.

[hopefan]

Right Guard  -  I feel your pain  -  losing to Illinois College  by that much is not a good sign at all.   Robert Morris Springfield is 2-7, but have dropped their last 5 games to Division 2 teams, so don't be fooled by the record.

This week is their SLIAC week - they play Mac tonight, Blackburn on Thursday, and Fontbonne on Saturday - you should get a good read on them from tonight's game vs Mac.

[fcnews]

P. Pride (Panther or Puget)- Congrats on your schools 5-0 start. Question - Do you have any word on former Griffin Matt Reeb?  I see he appears on GC's roster but hasn't appeared in the box scores.

[iwumichigander]

Maybe in the WIAC the officials allow for a little more physical play. 

From the few, and I will stress few, WIAC and SLIAC contest I've seen over several years, the WIAC officials seem to allow a little more physical play and tend to go with the flow of the agressive team in the lead.  The SLIAC as another poster noted seems to be inconsistent at times but does not allow a lot of checking & bumping on the perimeter.

Aside from noted opinions on compentency, I think officiating has more to do with the style of play accustomed to the area officals know best.  There is a big difference in the style of play between WIAC and SLIAC.  You can also attribute some of the differences to the emphasis the NCAA communicates to officials pre-season and how local officials interpret the instructions.  Just note the number of carrying the ball calls this year as an example (as well as the inconsistent way its called).

[fcnews]

I agree with your comments iwumichigander. FU hosts the preseason officials meetings. Last year the concentration was on hand checking. And as you said this year it is ball handling. These calls will be frequent until about half way thru the season.

[y_jack_lok]

Thanks to all the posters who have contirubted to the discussion on officiating. It has been very informative and enlightening.

[fcnews]

Fontbonne University has annouced the addition of Scott Spinner to the Griffin coaching staff. Scott is a 2007 graduate of Webster Univ. and brings a youthful enthusiasm to the staff. He will be responsible for scouting and some of the recruiting duties. Scott's knowledge of the game and familiarity with the SLIAC will be a huge plus. He is a graduate of DeSmet H.S., and his connections with the area Catholic private schools will be a nice bridge to the Catholic philosophy of Fontbonne University.

Spinner will make his bench debut Saturday nite, when FU faces RMC-S at 3pm.