MBB: St. Louis Intercollegiate Athletic Conference

[j_clem]

FU Fan, I heard what hapened. Hope Brian is o.k. Basaed on what I was told, I think Myers should be asked to turn in his uniform.

what happened?

[pantherpride06]

I have a hard time seeing Webster ranked in the top 25 before the end of the season.  I say that because Maryville's women haven't lost a game in 2008, 19-3 and has at 73 game "SLIAC Game Winning Streak" and don't have a vote in either national polls (D3Hoops.com or USA Today/ESPN Coaches Poll).  If you are currently not in the to 39 on the D3 polls, I don't think Webster will get there.

With this, i ask...  When is the last time a SLIAC Men's team was ranked in the top 25 (If ever?)  I know Maryville's women were ranked a few years ago.  Greenville's men in 2003-04 were ranked in the region (such as Webster).  Anyone?

[BunchTime]

Panther, after looking at the national rankings, I think you are right that Webster will likely not garner a national ranking even if they win out.  It seems there are just too many 2, 3, and 4 loss teams right now.  Like I said, it really doesn't matter, but it would be neat to see a SLIAC team nationally ranked.  The regional rankings are much more meaningful for seeding purposes anyway.

I would be confident in saying that no SLIAC Men's team has ever been nationally ranked.  I know the Lady Gorloks were ranked somewhere around 20 in the 2001-2002 season when they lost in the Sweet 16 of the NCAA Tourney.

[FU Fan]

Myers fully extended his arm grabbed Fogerty's leg and pulled it out from under him causing his head to hit the floor and send him to the hospital after the game.
He was blind sided. Myers was  behind him on the floor about mid court. NO EJECTION. It was Myers 4th. He did get 5 a little later.Fogerty couldn't shot the free throws. Went back in  a few seconds later made 2 and a FT.
Then lost his vision. Fogerty had 19.
WE need more guys like Myers he can't score and he can't play defense.

[furbug]

it would be nice if the Gorloks could achieve the first national ranking in the history of its program (and maybe first ranking of any SLIAC Men's team).

I am aware that this is the men's basketball site, but two instances come to mind. The Gorloks' baseball team is presently nationally ranked at #32. Go to this link:

http://www.websterathletics.com/index.aspx?tab=baseball&path=baseball

Also in 2002 the Lady Gorloks went to the Sweet 16, where they lost a heart breaker to Wisconsin Stevens Point, who went on the win the National Championship. Surely that Webster team, which accomplished more post season than Maryville has, must have been nationally ranked.

[BunchTime]

Furbug, sorry I should have been more clear when I said "SLIAC Men's team," but I was referring to basketball only. 

And like I said, Webster Women's team in 2001-2002 was ranked somewhere in the range of 16-20, I believe.

[SLIAC Man]

Not surprising from Myers. I've seen him play a lot. All you can do with a guy like that is to always be on guard.

[y_jack_lok]

Here is a link to the final 2001-2002 d3hoops men's and women's polls. Scroll down past the men's poll to see that the Webster women finished the season with a 25-3 record and a final ranking of 16:

http://www.d3hoops.com/top25/02/final.htm

[FU Fan]

What you do with a guy like Myers.
Is--- Call the intentional
        Eject him from the game
        Suspend or Remove him entirely from the conference.
What his coach should have done was to send him to the locker room.
Instead he leaves him in the game to commit his 5th foul.
You can't expect a guy to forsee another reach out while on the floor with full extension of his arm and grab your foot and pull from behind.
This ain't hockey.
If it was Myers would be a bloody mess along the boards with his sweater over his head.
In case you haven't looked Fogerty leads in scoring, shooting percentage is about 4th in RBs And gets absolutely no calls with 2 guys hanging on his arms while shooting. He's plenty tough boys.If you allow it to get this mean you better let it go both ways.
The commish really needs to look into this blatant act from a guy who can't play.

[furbug]

And like I said, Webster Women's team in 2001-2002 was ranked somewhere in the range of 16-20, I believe.

Sorry, Bunchtime. I was responding to your post before that, and did not see that you had already posted about the Lady Gorloks. Anyway, that was a very exciting team to watch, so a little extra tooting of their horn doesn't hurt.

[pantherpride06]

The administrative side in me wants to say that we need to be careful before we bury this kid.  I realize, from what I've heard, that this is his second flagrant foul this season.  I think this is a situation that needs to first be handled by the school.  I'm confident Principia Athletic Director Lee Suarez will take the appropriate steps along with head coach Garry Sprague.  Obviously it was a serious injury taking out a key Fontbonne student-athlete.  However, if this were the case with every athlete who had a mental lapse in athletics, then tons of people would no longer be in sports.

Again, it's close to the end of a long season at Principia and Suarez and Sprague will handle the situation with the utmost consideration on both Meyers, the team, and the conference.  If the league feels they need to step in, I'm sure SLIAC Commissioner Wolper will step in.

Realize that he's just a kid. I'm sure that Justin Meyers isn't an evil kid and means to go hurt people.  I know nothing about him, but from my short time in athletics and my knowledge of Principa, I'm sure they as a staff don't condone this. 

Just my two cents from my administrative mindset.

[pantherpride06]

Final from Carlinville, Illinois

Greenville 81 - Blackburn 60

They won't go away.  Greenville, as in years past, play to the end of the season.  It doesn't matter where they are at in the standings, they always play hard.  For the second time in as many seasons, it comes down to the Eureka/Greenville match up for that fourth seed and the pleasure of taking on Webster in the SLIAC Semi-Final.

Greenville had a strong hold on this one from the beginning, taking a 20 point lead into the dungeon of the Beaver Dome.  SLIAC New Comer of the year (MY VOTE) Ben Cochran went to town with 25 points on 11-16 shooting.  LaPhonso Ellis also had another stellar performance with 21 points and six rebounds.  Big minutes and big roles for the other three starters.  They may not have buckets of points, but they boys are all playing well.  Stephen Groves had a single three point basket, but had five rebounds and two steals.  Ben Hensold had nine points and three boards and Christopher Simmons had five points but had eight assist and nine rebounds.  Almost a double-double not including points, a rarity in sports.

Panthers also had some big bench play from Terrance Cosby, Andy Traeger, and Chris "Take Me" Hohm.  Don't sleep on my Panthers men.  Wednesday Night, if you want to see a barn-burner, head to newly refurbished HJ Long Gymnasium and I promise you won't be sad you did.

GO GREENVILLE!!!

#21 Loggers lost a hear-breaker to Whitworth in what was a virtual NWC Championship game.  Loggers, still tied for first, need two wins on Friday & Saturday and hope for a Whitworth loss to host the conference championship game.

GO LOGGERS!!!

[Gregory Sager]

Panther, after looking at the national rankings, I think you are right that Webster will likely not garner a national ranking even if they win out.  It seems there are just too many 2, 3, and 4 loss teams right now.  Like I said, it really doesn't matter, but it would be neat to see a SLIAC team nationally ranked.  The regional rankings are much more meaningful for seeding purposes anyway.

That's exactly it. The D3hoops.com poll has absolutely nothing to do with tournament seeding, so there's no point in looking at the poll if you're discussing the tournament. The only items relevant to where Webster would be seeded are: a) the primary criteria used by the selection committee; and b) the regional rankings, which are shaped by the primary criteria.

Here's the primary criteria, from page 16 of the 2008 D3 men's basketball championship handbook:

Primary Criteria
The primary criteria emphasize regional competition (all contests leading up to NCAA
championships); all criteria listed will be evaluated (not listed in priority order).
• Win-loss percentage against regional opponents.
• Strength-of-schedule (only contests versus regional competition).
- Opponents' Average Winning Percentage (OWP).
- Opponents' Opponents' Average Winning Percentage (OOWP).
[See Appendix B for explanation of OWP and OOWP calculations.]
• In-region head-to-head competition.
• In-region results versus common regional opponents.
• In-region results versus regionally ranked teams.

Note:
• Ranked opponents are defined as those teams ranked at the time of the rankings/
selection process only.
• Conference postseason contests are included.
• Contests versus provisional and reclassifying members in their third and fourth
years shall count in the primary criteria. Provisional and reclassifying members
shall remain ineligible for rankings and selections.

Webster is currently ranked eighth in the Midwest Region. In terms of the teams ahead of the Gorloks, #4 Wheaton and #7 Carroll were beaten this weekend; while it's most likely that Webster's credentials are not good enough to vault the Gorloks ahead of Wheaton in this week's upcoming rankings, it's very possible that the Gorloks will move up to #7 when the next rankings are released this coming Wednesday.

However, keep in mind that strength of schedule is one of the five primary criteria. That hurts Webster, and it will continue to hurt Webster even as the Gorloks keep winning, because their wins from here on out will all be over teams with losing regional records, with the exceptions of Westminster and Fontbonne (should the Gorloks and Griffins meet again in the SLIAC tourney) -- and even wins over Westminster and Fontbonne would be lessened by the fact that those two teams have poor OOWPs.

Another criterion is in-region results against regionally ranked teams. Webster sports a very unfortunate 0-4 record in that criterion, with losses to Midwest Region #1 Augustana, West Region #3 UW-Platteville (that's considered a regional game because Missouri and Wisconsin are in the same NCAA administrative region), Midwest Region #6 Illinois Wesleyan, and Midwest Region #2 Washington (MO). The upside of playing a higher level of D3 competition in non-conference play is that it has likely helped make the Gorloks a better team than its SLIAC peers. The downside is that it has hurt the Gorloks in terms of this particular primary criterion. However, since the recognized status quo within the league is that the SLIAC will only be represented by one team, anyway, and that team will probably always be a lower seed due to strength of schedule, slating contests against all of those good teams was likely a worthwhile risk on the part of Coach Bunch.

In other words, while it's likely that the Gorloks can keep pace and continue to hang in there at #7 or #8 in the region if they keep on winning, it's not likely that they'll be able to move up much, if any, beyond that in order to guarantee a better seed -- and, of course, their Pool C possibilities are remote in the event that they lose in the SLIAC tourney.

[Pat Coleman]

And on cue, I can note that the updated SOS numbers have been posted:

http://www.d3hoops.com/salem/08/owp.htm

[Gregory Sager]

Rats! I was waiting for you to finish that update so that I could link to it. If I'd waited three more minutes, I could've done it.