MBB: St. Louis Intercollegiate Athletic Conference

[hopefan]

That's good news regarding Webster, losing Hoggett and Robinson is a real one two blow in the paint, and even if Coach Bunch feels Ortworth and Jungk can handle the job, an insurance policy in a 6'8" juco is a real positive - hope we can find out more about him over time.

I made contact with another source and FC is right about the timeline regarding Maryville's potential move DOWN to D2 -   Maryville needs to make a decision, notify the SLIAC, and the SLIAC would then make a decision about Maryville's staus with the conference.  Bylaws state the school must give a year's notice, so if Maryville does opt to move, they would still be D3 next year - the question would be whether the SLIAC would count their games and allow them to be championship eligible.  I guess there is a big Conference meeting in June where things like this happen.....

[hopefan]

Titan Q in one of the other rooms gave Tuition Room and Board costs for CCIW schools and MWC schools  -   I found some interesting comparisons, so I thought I'd go through the SLIAC sites and make a similar list.   

I have no idea whether these are the most up to date costs, anyone who wants to elaborate feel free  -  I found them on each school's website-  I just wanted to offer a comparison...   These costs reflect tuition room and board...

Blackburn       15255
Macmurray      21498
Eureka            22805
Westminster   23370
Greenville       24880
Fontbonne      25200
Maryville         26100
Webster         28234     room costs were from 05-06
Principia          31125

and for kicks
Wash U          48800               

[fcnews]

Hopefan - Thank you for adding a second, to the comment only statement I made. Two comments do make for a more solid comment, most of the time a rumor is passing on one persons second hand information. When I have factual information on this subject, I will refer to it in that fashion.

I am under the belief that Maryville will announce to the SLIAC with ih the next 45 days. At which time the SLIAC AD's committee will call a meeting. I don't think it will wait till the next available meeting date.

Maryville will appear on all conference schedules in all sports sponsored currently by MU.

The Championship question is a strange one. But, considering that know one can honestly say how this subject is being handled by members of the entire department. There are a lot of parttime coaches, too. This is a shame for the athletes that will be seniors next year.

But, the ethical "equal playing field line" is only black and white, no grey. It would be foolish for the SLIAC to allow any MU team to compete in a NCAA DIII Championship, as the SLIAC's conference representive. This sounds harsh, but those conference schools remaining need to send their best member.

This brings me to the idea I would support. "If the university did the due diligence to maintain somehow accountability, aloow the student - athletes compete for a Conference Championship. And if, MU wins such, the runner up would accept the AQ."

The only reason I would support this is because there are going to be a lot of kids stuck in limbo. And they deserve something.  And the fact that MU is a founding member and has always been a solid part of the sports landscape. Until making this decision.


Just my opinion.

[Wydown Blvd.]

fcnews - I disagree with your idea. I believe the conference should not punish the students for a decision by the administration concerning the move to D2. The students going to Maryville next year (whether returning or for their first year) should have the opportunity to play for a NCAA bid for a few reasons, including how late this decision will be made in proximity to the start of the school year.  If a Maryville team wins the conference championship in a sport, the concern is not just that the best SLIAC member is not being represented. Instead, its also that the best team is represented.

I am unsure of precedents of other conferences and other school around D3 when this issue arises, but I don't think it would change my opinion.

[y_jack_lok]

It is unclear to me, if Maryville does head down the D2 path, whether or not they will be a provisional D2 school next year. If so, then I don't think it would be right for them to be allowed to represent the SLIAC in NCAA tournaments. However, if their provisional status begins with the 2009-2010 season, then next year they are probably still a full-fledged D3 school and should be able to compete as such.

Does anyone out there know how this actually works?

[sac]

Pat could probably answer better than me, but I think Lake Erie is going through the transition to D2 and they were eligible for the D3 tournament this year.

Lincoln also was eligible last season.  But I can't recall at what stage these two programs were in the D2 transition.

[hopefan]

One of the RUMORS I heard was that Maryville was recruiting with a line that they could offer players a scholarship in two years, but not next year.

If that's a fact, they should not be eligible for SLIAC championships as they haven't been recruiting on a level playing field with other SLIAC schools.

BUT - I'll reiterate, that is only a RUMOR, a heresay, not an accusation.  If they are going D2, It would seem to be perfectly legitimate. 

[Pat Coleman]

Lincoln entered the Division II provisional process this year and was ineligible for the Division III championship.

Another school seems to match the Maryville profile rather closely: Chestnut Hill didn't enter the provisional process until this year either and had some time where it could attempt to make the same claim you guys think Maryville is making.

CHC remained in the NEAC at that time.

It didn't seem to do them much good.

[y_jack_lok]

Helpful, insightful responses to my question. Thanks. And if you stop to think about it, why would a prospect choose to pay more to go to a school for one year with a promise of a scholarship the next year, when he/she is likely to be able to get an athletic scholarship at another school right away?

[Wydown Blvd.]

in response to your question y_jack_lok: its not that Maryville would be unfair competition to another school that could give another athletic scholarship right away. The idea is that Maryville would be able to draw a better prospective athlete because it could offer scholarships later and have an advantage of other SLIAC's (and other d3 institutions) at the present time. in that case (as hopefan noted first) a prospect would choose to not receive an athletic scholarship for one year in return for 3 years of a full ride, and that is unfair to other SLIAC's

[y_jack_lok]

Wydown, I understand and agree with what you said. But, I wasn't really thinking about it from that perspective. I was thinking about it from the persepctive of what it costs to go to college these days and how much financial aid weighs in the choice of what school to attend. So why would a student athlete choose to go to a school for one year without an athletic scholarship and three years with a scholarship, when he/she could go to a different school on an athletic scholarship for four years -- assuming all other things are relatively equivalent at the schools the student athlete is considering?

[Ralph Turner]

Wydown, I understand and agree with what you said. But, I wasn't really thinking about it from that perspective. I was thinking about it from the persepctive of what it costs to go to college these days and how much financial aid weighs in the choice of what school to attend. So why would a student athlete choose to go to a school for one year without an athletic scholarship and three years with a scholarship, when he/she could go to a different school on an athletic scholarship for four years -- assuming all other things are relatively equivalent at the schools the student athlete is considering?

True, but Maryville may be attempting to attract those athletes who do not have acceptable offers at other schools.  The financial aid package that is "D-III compatible" might turn into some fraction of athletic scholarship when the school is under D-II rules.  Bid low, get the takers, and then upgrade the scholarships of the ones that you need to upgrade when you become D-II.

In any situation, the admissions department is considering how much of a discount that they can give the varying students who are basketball players under those two sets of rules.

[y_jack_lok]

True, but Maryville may be attempting to attract those athletes who do not have acceptable offers at other schools.  The financial aid package that is "D-III compatible" might turn into some fraction of athletic scholarship when the school is under D-II rules.  Bid low, get the takers, and then upgrade the scholarships of the ones that you need to upgrade when you become D-II.

In any situation, the admissions department is considering how much of a discount that they can give the varying students who are basketball players under those two sets of rules.

Yes, that potential certainly exists.

I was also picking up on Pat Coleman's post:

Another school seems to match the Maryville profile rather closely: Chestnut Hill didn't enter the provisional process until this year either and had some time where it could attempt to make the same claim you guys think Maryville is making.

CHC remained in the NEAC at that time.

It didn't seem to do them much good.

I think for one year the possibility of turning all, or even some of, Maryville's men's and women's athletic teams into likely conference first place teams is not that great, just as Pat said it didn't help Chestnut Hill. Maryville's women's bassketball team will likely win the conference again next year, but must of their other teams might not make great leaps forward under this scenario next season.

[sully309]

There have been good points made on both sides of this argument. I would say that even if Maryville decides to go D-II, they should still be allowed to compete in the SLIAC and for NCAA bids. I really don't think it gives Maryville a huge advantage. Yeah, maybe they could use the ploy with recruiting, but if I'm not mistaken, MU won't be able to compete for NCAA bids at the D-II level for at least a year or two after switching, which can be a tough sell. That would be unfortunate for the students that went to Maryville hoping to be a part of a SLIAC championship team that could play in an NCAA tournament. So why not let them have one more shot at it this year?

I'm not familiar with instances where this has happened at the D-III level, but I remember a few years ago in D-I Richmond announced it was leaving the Colonial Association and the remaining CAA schools didn't allow Richmond to play in the conference tournaments in Richmond's last year in the league. I hated to see that because the student-athletes at Richmond were screwed and they really didn't have ANYTHING to do with it!

[y_jack_lok]

Good point, eureka_sid. And a question for you. I see  you made your post at about 6:15 a.m. today. Does that mean you stayed up all night or got up early this morning?