MBB: St. Louis Intercollegiate Athletic Conference

[fcnews]

Fact - Grinnell is a DIII program in good standing. They finished 16-8 last season, 11-5 in MWC play and was the their league runner-up.

Fact - This is not the first time Fontbonne has been contacted by them for a game.

Fact - A SLIAC team is facing an opponent who has received national attention. For whatever reason.

It is my understanding that GC has some trouble filling their non-conf. schedule with DIII opponents.

Coach McKinney thought it would be a chance to bring a very entertaining night of basketball to the STL.

FU has been put down for their scheduling, I guess playing a 9-16 Cornell like WU and MU would of been more satisfying to my good friend Hopefan.

Pleeeez!!!!

I'm going to enjoy Hope while we have him. We all know he'll soon be leaving us for D2 land. He did come to us as the unofficial number #1 MU supporter. LOL (Jerry Lewis and Dean Martin come to mind)

[hopefan]

until Bash and Elwel and Regan and Klein and Hebl graduated, FC!!!!

[Gregory Sager]

I'm with fcnews on this one. Yeah, Hopefan is correct in pointing out that Grinnell is an awkward opponent in that you have to run atypical practices to prepare to play the Pioneers, and you don't necessarily glean any useful experience from having played them. Nevertheless, the Pioneers are a successful D3 program that consistently makes its mark within a more highly-regarded league than the SLIAC -- which in and of itself makes them a worthy addition to any SLIAC team's schedule.

It's true that Grinnell head coach Dave Arseneault has a hard time finding D3 opponents every year, for the reasons that I stated above, but that shouldn't preclude a SLIAC team from "stepping up in competition" to play the Pioneers. Plus, the "freak show" media buzz that follows Grinnell around might actually draw out some curiosity-seekers on an otherwise-dead Monday night to take in the Grinnell @ Fontbonne game and put some extra money in the Fontbonne coffers.

Fontbonne's been one of the SLIAC schools that has been lambasted plenty over the last few seasons for its non-conference scheduling, and I've been foremost among the critics. Coach McKinney is doing the right thing by toughening up his schedule, and that should be applauded by all SLIAC fans. The more SLIAC programs that "get it" in terms of non-conference scheduling, the better for the conference as a whole.

[hopefan]

not saying that I won't be in the front of the line to see Grinnell - a team I've wanted to see for the last 10 years but never had the opportunity except for their one flop on national TV.  What I am implying is that if the purpose of that particular game is to better prepare Fontbonne for the upcoming SLIAC games, then any number of midwest opponents in the CCIW, HCAC, MWC, or NathC would have been a better choice as far as competing against a team who has normal offensive and defensive goals.  Sure playing Grinnell is exciting, and if the St Louis Post plays it up a little, it will add some local attendance (which will not add a penny to the Fontbonne athletic fund as admission is free, nor would I think it will bolster future game attendance), but in a year where Fontbonne has proven players to become a team that could advance in tourney play, perhaps a different opponent might have been more worthwhile.

Greg, you know I have always pressed for steppped up schedules and praised Webster and Maryville for doing so in the past.  Has Fontbonne stepped up their schedule over last year?  -  limited  at best.  The costly trip to the West Coast subs Chaminade for Caltech or Hope International - a definite step up.   The Chicago trip to play the bible school and whomever else evidently has to happen per Coach Mckinney's edict - why, I'll not understand, as it has never generated a Chicago recruit, and generally results in a win and a loss against non D3 opponents.  Rust - who knows - they don't play many NCAA teams - Rose Hulman was down last year - Lincoln Christian takes the local divinity school or chiropractic school place -
Elmhurst is obviously a step up - and Fontbonne plays Wash U every year.

Am I going to praise this schedule like I've praised Webster's or Maryville's in the past?  Nope.  Will it upset FC? - Yep.   Is it a nothing more than an opinion that has nothing to do with Webster's current schedule or how Fontbonne fared in the post season last year ?- yep  Is it an improvement over last year in my mind? Slightly   Does it compare to Webster's or Maryville's schedule this year? - don't know, But I didn't make that comparison.

[y_jack_lok]

Awesome!!! It's just early September and fcnews & hopefan are at it already. But let's not get too carried away this season. As I recall, last season I had to send you both to your bedrooms for a timeout to calm down. I know, boys will be boys, but I was hoping you had learned your lesson last year.

[Gregory Sager]

not saying that I won't be in the front of the line to see Grinnell - a team I've wanted to see for the last 10 years but never had the opportunity except for their one flop on national TV.  What I am implying is that if the purpose of that particular game is to better prepare Fontbonne for the upcoming SLIAC games, then any number of midwest opponents in the CCIW, HCAC, MWC, or NathC would have been a better choice as far as competing against a team who has normal offensive and defensive goals.

I agree with that, although I mitigate my agreement slightly by echoing y_jack's point that the Grinnell game will at least be a good test of Fontbonne's conditioning.

Here, however, we get into the "beggars can't be choosers" situation. Did Fontbonne have the option of playing other MWC opponents -- or CCIW, HCAC, or NAthCon opponents -- instead of Grinnell for that particular game? If so, did the availability of open dates become a restricting factor? These are open questions whose answers determine just how much of a bad choice Grinnell would be for prepping the Griffins for SLIAC play -- because, even though Grinnell plays an unconventional style not replicated by any SLIAC team, it's still a far more useful exercise to play Grinnell than it would be to play Logan Chiropractic, St. Louis Christian, or Concordia Seminary instead. Better a good opponent with an unconventional style than a horrible opponent who plays the game the same way that you do.

Greg, you know I have always pressed for steppped up schedules and praised Webster and Maryville for doing so in the past.  Has Fontbonne stepped up their schedule over last year?  -  limited  at best.  The costly trip to the West Coast subs Chaminade for Caltech or Hope International - a definite step up.

That's more than a definite step up. That's a drastic step up. Hope International and Caltech are the palm-tree equivalents of Logan Chiropractic and Concordia Seminary. Chaminade is a D2 powerhouse, one that annually hosts a tournament in which it faces major-league D1 programs (and in which they beat Princeton and barely lost to LSU last season). Chaminade wipes the floor with the vast majority of D3 opponents that come its way (two years ago the Silverswords hosted Carleton, Presentation, Central, and New Paltz State, and beat them by 23, 52, 28, and 25, respectively). I will venture to say that Chaminade is the toughest opponent any SLIAC team will face this upcoming season.

The Chicago trip to play the bible school and whomever else evidently has to happen per Coach Mckinney's edict - why, I'll not understand, as it has never generated a Chicago recruit, and generally results in a win and a loss against non D3 opponents.

Last season fcnews finally shared with us the reason why Coach McKinney schedules that tournament every season, and I'm satisfied with his explanation. Suffice it to say that there are things in life that are more important than strength of scheduling. Sure, these trips have never landed a Chicago recruit, but do we know if he's trying to recruit Chicago, anyway? Seems to me that all of Fontbonne's recruiting has focused upon prospects who live within an hour or so of the campus. It thus might be more relevant to speculate that the Chicago trip is a possible incentive to kids from far downstate Illinois and northeast Missouri that actually helps in recruiting those kids.

Moody Bible will never be a satisfactory opponent for a D3 team, and there's no way to spin it otherwise. But it at least appears that the Moody coach is trying to set up Fontbonne with a legitimate first-round opponent, D3 or not, and William Penn certainly fits that requirement. In other words, it appears that McKinney tries to salvage something from a personal obligation that, unfortunately, cuts into his strength of scheduling.

Rust - who knows - they don't play many NCAA teams - Rose Hulman was down last year - Lincoln Christian takes the local divinity school or chiropractic school place -
Elmhurst is obviously a step up - and Fontbonne plays Wash U every year.

Rust generally fields a decent team. The Bearcats only went 11-13 last season, and they got pasted twice by South Region power Maryville TN, but they were also one of only three teams that beat Centre (26-3) last season. That's a good "get" for a SLIAC team's schedule. Rose-Hulman is only a middling HCAC program, but as I've argued before in this room the Engineers are exactly the sort of team that a SLIAC program should be scheduling. They're relatively close to home, they're regional, and they're not so dominant as to automatically blow out a SLIAC team nor so atrocious as to not give the SLIAC team a good game. Lincoln Christian is not a good game for Fontbonne; SLIAC programs in general should be putting Lincoln Christian in their rear-view mirrors now that LCC has decided not to pursue D3 membership. Elmhurst is a huge step up from Fontbonne fare in the recent past. The Bluejays are a borderline national power, and they'll only be better than they were last season with the return of their entire starting lineup. And just because Wash U is an annual opponent doesn't detract from the Bears' importance on this year's Fontbonne schedule -- especially since the Bears are the defending national champions and a likely preseason #1 or #2. Lee McKinney doesn't have to call Mark Edwards every year in order to schedule that game, but he does.

Am I going to praise this schedule like I've praised Webster's or Maryville's in the past?  Nope.  Will it upset FC? - Yep.   Is it a nothing more than an opinion that has nothing to do with Webster's current schedule or how Fontbonne fared in the post season last year ?- yep  Is it an improvement over last year in my mind? Slightly   Does it compare to Webster's or Maryville's schedule this year? - don't know, But I didn't make that comparison.

I'm not making any comparisons of Fontbonne's schedules to those of the other SLIAC schools without looking at those other schedules more closely. I'm just going by what Fontbonne has on the slate this season as compared to previous seasons, and it seems to me that it is a big improvement over last year's, or any previous year's. Is it perfect? By no means. Coach McKinney could still use some more in-region games. But I think it's worthwhile to applaud any discernible improvement, and this season's Fontbonne schedule is a definite improvement.

[Razor Back]

"I will venture to say that Chaminade is the toughest opponent any SLIAC team will face this upcoming season."

Another tough Division II SLIAC opponent this coming season is Minnesota State, who hosts MacMurray on December 18. The Mavericks finished ranked #13 in the DII final poll. Chaminade finished #25. Not saying Minnesota State is tougher than Chaminade - just saying the SLIAC has another team taking on a very worthy DII opponent.

Razor

Wonder what the weather will be like in Mankato, Minnesota on December 18?

Back

[fcnews]

One last comment on FU's Chicago trips. Besides the explanation I gave last year. There is another painfull reseaon we visit each year. This town has served Coach McKinney well as a recruting area. Back before FU even had basketball, McKinney's Missouri Baptist teams always had a Chi Town contingent. Till one sad nite when two of his players ( great kids from inner-city) loss their lives in a car accident returning to STL after a quick trip home for Christmas visit. End of story.

knowing Coach the LCC game is probably on the schedule to get some of the freshmen a game under their belt of extra playing time and confidence. Each coach prepares there teams differently. I will not attempt to explain a coaches reasoning, when he will pass the 500 college win mark this year and number 800 for his carreer is not far behind.

Hopefan, I think, just likes to see WU and MU schedules so he gets a chance to watch more and different D3 schools. Nothing wrong with that. Again, Grinnell is a much better opponent then Cornell or Spalding twice.

[hopefan]

I'll write a non hoops comment here because the people I care about read here, not necessarily the D3 football page.   

Props to SLIAC football   -   only the two new southern additions, LaGrange and Huntingdon won this weekend, but I think it's great that Eureka, Greenville, Mac, Prin, Blackburn and Westmin field teams and compete, usually against schools with larger student populations than they have.  It's got to promote a great fall atmosphere for those schools, and its giving something like 300 guys the chance to keep on playing football after high school.

Yes the "north" SLIAC 6 were 0-6 this week and for all I know, they may not win a non conference game, but I'll bet that the conference matchups are as intense as the hoops matches  -  I'm writing on my calender to try to see a couple of those games this fall...   FC, Yjak, Bugman,    we should take a road trip in October on a Saturday afternoon.....

[fcnews]

After reading the front page story I've come to the conclusion that anything is possible In D3 basketball. I think the SLIAC should add St. Thomas Univ. of the V.I. ( is there one ) to the conference just for the trip.

[pantherpride06]

TA DA!!! I'm back.

I haven't had time to re-read all I missed over the summer.  HOWEVER... Hopefan I'm upset you were here in the Great Northwest and didn't text or call.  Holycow!  Portland... just a few hours south of me.  !!!

[y_jack_lok]

Great to hear from our Greenville stalwart. We'll be looking forward to what you can tell us about the '08-'09 Panthers .

[pantherpride06]

I do know that all recruited landed on campus this fall and are all working out with the team.  Those I met with during camp were excited to be apart of the team.  The team will be lead by none other than LaPhonso Ellis and Ben Cochran.  He will carry Barber's warriors who are looking to break into the top four this year.

When I learn more about the boys, I'll give you a clearer update.  I also heard that Todd West (7.7 ppg, 18 mpg in 06-7) is back in Greenville and will be wearing the black and orange of GC.

[hopefan]

aahhh Panther, believe me when I say you were on my mind - but after looking at the geography and knowing we had plans that mandated our return to Portland early each evening, I knew there would not be time for a trip up north to Washington State.   As  I mentioned before, it would have been great fun to just check out the four schools that we passed signs for in Oregon.  Casey and I are seriously planning on returning for a vacation sometime in the future - unbelievable scenery......

[pantherpride06]

You are exactly right.  You passed some of the nicest campus in the NWC...  of course Puget Sound's campus in North Tacoma is the best!

For those who haven't seen Tacoma, here is a photo of Tacoma.



Great place here in the Great Northwest!