MBB: Wisconsin Intercollegiate Athletic Conference

[Mr. Ypsi]

Is it possible that ALL of our tems will drop from the top 25? Is the league down, balanced or both?

Mainly balanced, but probably down a bit.  My assessment to date would be that this is one of the rare years where the WIAC is not only not #1, they're not even #2.  FWIW, my picks to date: 1. CCIW, 2. UAA, 3. WIAC, 4. "pick a conference".

But I am pretty sure that it is illegal for a poll not to have ANY WIAC in the top 25!  I don't know if anyone will emerge as a top 10 team, but I'd be highly surprised if you didn't have 2 in the 11-25 range, and another 1-2 in the ORVs!

[Greek Tragedy]

I think the WIAC is down a bit.  But, I feel there are a lot of teams in the Top 25 that the WIAC teams can beat.  The WIAC has un unusual low winning % (check the inter-conference board) compared to previous years.

I think the league is more balanced than before as well.  There are a lot more games that are tough.  Usually, there is three or four teams that can fight for a top spot, but this year, there is Stout, La Crosse, Oshkosh, Whitewater, Point and even Platteville.

The reason we won't see many WIAC teams in the Top 25 is two-fold.  One, some of the usual suspsects have dropped games they probably don't in previous years.  Point actually went on a two-game skid down at the Clarke College holiday tourney.  To date, they've lost two crucial non-conference in-region games to Lakeland and Clarke. 

Whitewater lost to Loras (though they are much improved at 9-3, though they got smoked by Platteville).  They also lost to Carroll.  Though Carroll always gives them a run for their money, Whitewater usually comes out on top.  Platteville lost to Dubuque. 

The riggers of the WIAC also don't help the WIAC in the long run.  Ideally, you want WIAC teams to start high on the polls (Oshkosh #2 preseason, Stout as high at #10 last week) and then gradually drop when the losses mount in the WIAC.  But, Oshkosh fell hard and Stout just lost two tough WIAC games.  So, in all honesty, I wouldn't pay too much attention to the polls.

Not all teams, but a good number of teams play in conferences that only have two powerhouse teams and their conference schedule may be easier than their nonconference schedule.

At this time, there isn't a run-away leader.  Whitewater has to sustain their early season success, something they've had problems with in the past.  Stout has to get over this hump they've had this week.  La Crosse has to learn how to win at home.  Point has height issues.  Oshkosh has La Crosse, Whitewater and Point in their next five games. 

It's a long season.  As a WIAC fan, I just hope we get two teams in the big dance! 

[stormy]

It's a long season.  As a WIAC fan, I just hope we get two teams in the big dance! 

old school

in the past we have earned a second spot and been overlooked. this year, even with the extra spots, we still have to earn it.  unfortunately, this will be more difficult with our poor non-conference. imo

[John Gleich]

I think, as I've said before, there isn't a stand-out team at the front of the WIAC because the conference is young.  

Oshkosh:  2 seniors
Point:  2 seniors
Platteville:  2 seniors
Stout:  5 seniors
Whitewater:  3 seniors
La Crosse: 3 seniors
Eau Claire:  1 senior
River Falls:  1 senior
Superior:  1 senior

The WIAC is a tough league.  The number of good teams with good coaches and good players is much greater than most conferences.  It's not an easy league to just step in and play well.  Time has shown that teams with upper-classmen, and especially seniors, do better in terms of conference titles.  Take a look at Point and Platteville last year.  They were senior-laden teams.  How 'bout River Falls two years ago?  They had 5 good seniors.  Oshkosh, 3 years ago, was a senior-laden team.  Four years ago, Whitewater had a senior-laden team.

I'm not saying that this is the end-all answer, because Point, two years ago, won a national championship with one senior and a bunch of juniors, and they ran away with the conference three years ago with one senior, a few juniors, and a lot of sophomores.  But look at what the senior-heavy Oshkosh team did that year.  They beat Point at Point in the conference tournament, and made it to the Elite 8.

I think it's pretty safe to say that the WIAC is down this year, but it's down because teams don't have the senior leadership (from multiple sources) like the great teams of the past have had.  The teams have also had to discover themselves, because there were so many newcomers (even at 10-4, UWSP has had a great number of different starting line-ups and different floor combinations down the stretch of games, trying to figure out who plays well together and who can get the job done).

Now, looking at the conference standings, and comparing them to the number of seniors on the team, they match up pretty well.

5-0 Whitewater (2nd in terms of seniors)
5-1 Point (tied for 4th in terms of seniors, the possible anomaly)
4-2 Stout (1st in seniors)
3-2 La Crosse (2nd) and Oshkosh (tied 4th)
2-3 Platteville (tied 4th)
1-4 Eau Claire (tied 7th) River Falls (tied 7th)
0-6 Superior (tied 7th)

When you take a look at the number of seniors, the early-season in-conference success makes sense.  The more veteran teams are leading at this point in the season.  I understand that this says nothing about Juniors, and that Juniors are veteran players as well (Point two years ago, Oshkosh 5 years ago were junior laden teams that won a Nat Champ. and made it to the Sweet 16, respectively) but, as we've seen this year, a team with lots of touted Juniors (Oshkosh) has struggled early this year.

I'm not worried about the success of the WIAC in the country.  Whether we get one team in, or two, I think it's fairly safe to say that they will represent the conference well in the post season.  The WIAC is a trial by fire, and the teams that make it out have had to battle through tournament-style games with similar pressure in the regular season, week in and week out.  The experience gained from the regular season gives the teams big-game experience and prepares the WIAC teams for the tournament.

The only other thing I want to mention is OS's point about size.  Size is a great advantage (look at Point's over-all team size last year.  Their length really screwed teams up), but it isn't the end-all in how well a team does.  Like OS said about the Point/Stout game, Stout had a size advantage, at certain positions, but the old saying "It isn't the size of the dog in the fight but the size of the fight in the dog" held true.  While the size of the Nonemacher twins helped Stout, it was the heart of Bauer and Krull down the stretch that pulled the Pointers through and gave them the hard-fought W.

[frodotwo]

My comment on the difficulty of winning on the road in the WIAC is qualified by a glance at the standings. Five teams are above .500 and own a 13-3 road record. The bottom four are under .500 and sport a 2-11 home record. Thus far the top teams have fattened up on the bottom teams on the road. The top 5 are 5-2 on the road against themselves with 13 more to go.

[uww4ever]

Read a good story about Cal Poly Tech in Sports Illustrated about their bball team, who hasn't won a game in 12 years.  U Dub Dub beat them a couple of years ago in a tourney 123-35, interesting to note they have 8 valedictorians on their team and their leading scorer studies 14 hours a day.  Would have been interesting to see that game.

I don't believe that the WIAC is "down".  There are some good teams and players out there, and it is tough to win out in this league.  Just look at Point, UWW played them tough and they have a new coach this year and should be good not only this year, but for years to come.  I can't wait to make it out to a game this year and see Stout/UWW play.  I'm not a stats guy, or a speller, but if only 1 team makes it from the WIAC it would be a disgrace.

Go HAWKS!!!!

[Mr. Ypsi]

With the expansion to 59 teams, I think it a pretty safe bet that the WIAC will have AT LEAST two teams, even in (marginally) down years!  (IMO, the usually #1 WIAC is probably #3 this year, behind CCIW and UAA - still not exactly disgraceful out of, what, 31? conferences!)

The question this year is WHO the hell those teams will be!  I'd say just about any 2 or 3 of the following may do it: Stout, Whitewater, UWSP, Oshkosh, LAX.  And, if in fact, someone ELSE emerges, it would NOT surprise me.

[John Gleich]

UWW,

I've seen Point play (and from what I understand, Point pretty much had the Point/WW game in hand and allowed WW to just take it from them) and they're nowhere near as good as last year.  We've got 2 seniors and 2 juniors, and all the rest freshmen and sophomores.  Point has lost 3 non-conference games (the first non-con losses in 4 years) and the conference, as a whole hasn't dominated the out of conference opposition as much as in the past.  

Based on these non-con losses, not only by Point, but by everybody but La Crosse, the chances of getting a second NCAA team is very minimal, even with more bids this year.

[chmarx]

I'm inclined to think the conference is a bit down.  I agree with Old School that the relatively low number of seniors may be a big part of that.

I'll defer to others with more experience at this as to whether we get two teams into the tourney.  It seems to me that the conference tournament may be crucial for that.  If a team emerges as the definite regular season champion, but loses late in the tournament, they might get a bid.

As far as Brian's other question, could the relatively small attendance at most WIAC games be a factor?  It seems to me that a big, enthusiastic crowd is a big part of the home court advantage.

[Greek Tragedy]

Based on these non-con losses, not only by Point, but by everybody but La Crosse, the chances of getting a second NCAA team is very minimal, even with more bids this year.

And Stout (their loss to Wooster was out of region)


Mr. Ypsi,

Unfortunately, I'm in PS's boat.  It will be tough for the WIAC to get two teams in.  Tough nonconference losses will hurt even undefeated (in conference) Whitewater.  The Warhawks have TWO nonconference in-region losses and I don't think anyone thinks they'll go 16-0 in the conference.  Oshkosh really needs to win out with all four losses in-region.  Point has two NC in-region losses along with the loss to Whitewater.  Stout is in good shape with their nonconference loss to Wooster "not counting", while La Crosse is also in "good shape" thus far.

But, as usual, I think 12-4 will win the conference and with those league losses and another in the conference tourney, that may be too many to get an at-large bid, even with the field expanded to 59.

[Greek Tragedy]

As far as Brian's other question, could the relatively small attendance at most WIAC games be a factor?  It seems to me that a big, enthusiastic crowd is a big part of the home court advantage.

Apparently the larger than normal crowds at La Crosse isn't helping them at all...even if they run out of quarters at the concession stand!  0-2 at home, 3-0 on the road?

Team, home record....average attendence
Point (3-0)-1411
Stout (1-1)-1020
Oshkosh (0-1)-972
Platteville (0-2)-784
La Crosse (0-2)-696
Eau Claire (1-3)-646
Whitewater (3-0)-408
River Falls (1-2)-375
Superior (0-4)-281

Average attendence (24 dates):  678
Home record: 9-15

2005:

Point (8-0)-1899
Stout (4-4)-1617
Platteville (8-0)-1100
Oshkosh (6-2)-1056
Whitewater (3-5)-948
Eau Claire (2-6)-894
River Falls (3-5)-429
La Crosse (2-6)-407
Superior (2-6)-160

Ave: 946   Home record:  38-34

I think home court advantage in some places is overrated.  It has more to do with the quality of the team than how many fans are in the stands.  I think it also has to do with what kind of crowd there is.  In the past, Point has had huge crowds but act like they are in a church service sometimes!  It's gotten a lot better in recent years, maybe fans have been reading me complain about them! 

[Greek Tragedy]

To respond to Point Special's post regarding seniors, I think you have to look a little deeper into that to get the real effect on teams and how much those seniors, and other classes, actually contribute.  Point, for example, does have two seniors on the roster, but Bouche doesn't even play 10 minutes a game.  He did start four games at the beginning of the year, but was replaced by freshman Kevin Grusczynski.  He is 8th in minutes played and averages just 2.8 points a game (8th on the team).  I'm not trying to take away anything Bouche has done because he's done well when he has played, but all because he's a senior doesn't mean he contributes a lot.

I think Point's 5-1 conference record and 10-4 overall record is pretty amazing considering they start one senior, one junior a sophomore and two freshman.  The next two off the bench are also freshman (Al-Amin and Beamish) and both of them average over 17 minutes a game!

Obviously, the team relies on senior Bauer (34.2 minutes a game), Hicklin (34) and Krull (33.5), but the contributions that the four freshmen (Grusczynski and Rortvedt starting) can't be understated.

[titan2000]

Point Special:

What do they charge for a seat in Quandt?  I heard that UW-Oshkosh raised ticket prices this year and charge for other events now too--e.g. indoor track and field.

Do they sell a season ticket ?  does it come with a free bowl of soup? 

[badgerwarhawk]

Read a good story about Cal Poly Tech in Sports Illustrated about their bball team, who hasn't won a game in 12 years. U Dub Dub beat them a couple of years ago in a tourney 123-35,interesting to note they have 8 valedictorians on their team and their leading scorer studies 14 hours a day. Would have been interesting to see that game.Go HAWKS!!!

If I remember correctly that game was played as part of a tournament at Colorado College.  The best story to come out of it was when one of our assistant coaches was trying to round up some of our players because of a curfew and when he went through the hotel lobby the entire Cal Poly team was sitting in a conference room and they were all doing school work.  It was something like 11pm.  They weren't very good basketball players but I bet they'll be successfull in life.

PS, it's a stretch to suggest that Point had the WW[/color] game "in hand."  Their biggest lead of the game was seven points with about 8 1/2 minutes remaining.  From about 5 1/2  minutes on Point never had more than a four point lead and generally it was a point or two until WW[/color] made some free throws to stretch it to six.  It was an excellent game and Point played well but anyone that saw it wouldn't have thought Point had it "in hand."

 

[Greek Tragedy]

titan2k

It's $6 for the women's game (Berg) and $7 at the men's game (Quandt).  During double-headers, buy the women's ticket for $6 and then buy the men's for half price and get both for $9.50! No soup for you.