MBB: Wisconsin Intercollegiate Athletic Conference

chmarx · March 17, 2010, 02:21:30 AM

Quote from Point Special:

Point is the only team with a positive turnover ratio. All of the other teams turn the ball over more than their opponents. This could become important... Playoff basketball is possession-by-possession basketball and if you can eliminate your mistakes and maximize those of your opponent, then you put yourself in a very good position to win.

According to Bill Walton, Johnny Wooden says that the team with more turnovers wins most games.

Pat Coleman · March 17, 2010, 02:25:33 AM

You're out of your area here, Roop. The men's Final Four already has an NABC All-Star Game, and our game is not going to be included there, nor is it going to draw a lot of Division III fan base.

There you are talking about finding space for a D-III game to be played and a gym that's appropriate. Even the place where they hold the dunk contest (is that Butler's old gym) would dwarf the event. D-III fans have to pay exorbitant rates to stay in town to see this game. Often the D-I Final Four is in a place where there is no Division III presence whatsoever, for example, the entire state of Florida, or in San Antonio, where there are just a couple D-III schools. And you'd be flying every player there.

It costs more to put on the event at the D-I Final Four.
It costs more to attend the event at the D-I Final Four.
It is inaccessible to Division III fans.

Why in the world would you put at at the D-I Final Four?

I get the whole Roop-being-contrary thing but it doesn't make sense here.

The Roop · March 17, 2010, 02:48:27 AM

30 miles north of Stevens Point lies a city called Wausau. After the first weekend of the tournament I got a Sunday paper and it didn't even list a score from that regional/pod. After the second weekend of the tournament when Point had punched their ticket to Salem, all the Daily Herald had was a side bar mention in the sports section. I love DIII as much as any that post here but the general public simply doesn't care.

The fact is that people are more concerned with the D1 tournament and high school play-offs than they are about DIII teams at this time of year. I'll lay a buck or two out there that it's the same everywhere. I'm not against an All-Star game but put it on a higher stage so more than 500 will see it.

I'm not as contrary as I am direct. Sometimes that flies, sometimes that doesn't. It takes all kinds I guess.

Greek Tragedy · March 17, 2010, 02:59:20 AM

It might also be the preception that no one cares. Besides, the Wausau Herald is horrible! The Milwaukee Journal/Sentinel has write ups, brief, but write ups once in awhile. During the season, they usually have a section dedicated to small colleges in the state, usually on Saturday. It has schedules for the MWC, WIAC, and the CCIW, I believe. They even interview coaches once in awhile.

I don't think putting D3 players on the D1 stage helps at all. You'll just have a bunch of D1 fans asking themselves, "Who the heck are these guys?!"

Look how much traffic this site gets. The fans that want to know about D3 hoops can find the information needed.

The Roop · March 17, 2010, 11:49:22 AM

The NCAA likes to use lots of fancy terms, one of which is brand recognition for example. Unfortunately brand recognition focuses almost exclusively on the BCS and March Madness. These are markets/products that have no real competition so why not throw a bone to DII and DIII in an effort to grow the fan base.

Sure, most people would say "who the heck are these guys" but some might actually take the time to find out and maybe attend some games in the future. If I've heard it once I've heard it 100 times over the years. "DIII schools take the kids that couldn't make the team in high school". Clearly the product is being under marketed.

It should not be Pat Colemans responsibility alone to promote DIII; but it sure seems like it is. I had an idea, maybe it's a bad one, but I felt it was worth mentioning.

Pat Coleman · March 17, 2010, 01:34:57 PM

I hear you and I agree that it does seem like we're out here alone sometimes. I just don't think the D-I Final Four site is a good fit.

# 2011: Reliant Stadium, Houston, Texas (April 2 and 4)
# 2012: Louisiana Superdome, New Orleans, Louisiana (March 31 and April 2)
# 2013: Georgia Dome, Atlanta, Georgia (April 6 and 8)
# 2014: Cowboys Stadium, Arlington, Texas (April 5 and 7)
# 2015: Lucas Oil Stadium, Indianapolis, Indiana (April 4 and 6)
# 2016: Reliant Stadium, Houston, Texas (April 2 and 4)

One time in the next six years it would be in a convenient place for D-III fans to drive to. If you are on the Bob Quillman bandwagon and think Salem is a tough drive, just try to drive to Houston or Arlington or New Orleans or Atlanta.

phoenix_rising · March 17, 2010, 01:48:13 PM

Just thought I'd log in to see if anyone knows what my school's men's basketball coaching situation is...I certainly haven't heard anything up here (Superior). Basketball season slammed shut

Just Bill · March 17, 2010, 02:48:55 PM

Man phoenix, if YOU don't know, then we REALLY don't know. We bank on you for Superior info.

The Roop · March 17, 2010, 03:00:23 PM

Quote from: Pat Coleman on March 17, 2010, 01:34:57 PM
One time in the next six years it would be in a convenient place for D-III fans to drive to. If you are on the Bob Quillman bandwagon and think Salem is a tough drive, just try to drive to Houston or Arlington or New Orleans or Atlanta.

Not sure if it puts me on the bandwagon or not but Salem is 17 hours each way for me. When it's more than 8 hours Roop either flies or he doesn't go. So while Salem is in DIII country, it's serviced by a small regional airport and seems to be an $815 ticket whether it's a month in advance or a 3 day advanced purchase. Trust me, I've checked. Whereas it's not uncommon to get to one of the other cities you mentioned in the $300 range.

I'm not saying to put our Final Four in Wyoming; but when the bidding process comes up again a larger metropolitan area should perhaps be given priority.

Titan Q · March 17, 2010, 03:14:53 PM

Quote from: The Roop on March 17, 2010, 03:00:23 PM
Quote from: Pat Coleman on March 17, 2010, 01:34:57 PM
One time in the next six years it would be in a convenient place for D-III fans to drive to. If you are on the Bob Quillman bandwagon and think Salem is a tough drive, just try to drive to Houston or Arlington or New Orleans or Atlanta.

Not sure if it puts me on the bandwagon or not but Salem is 17 hours each way for me. When it's more than 8 hours Roop either flies or he doesn't go. So while Salem is in DIII country, it's serviced by a small regional airport and seems to be an $815 ticket whether it's a month in advance or a 3 day advanced purchase. Trust me, I've checked. Whereas it's not uncommon to get to one of the other cities you mentioned in the $300 range.

I'm not saying to put our Final Four in Wyoming; but when the bidding process comes up again a larger metropolitan area should perhaps be given priority.

I've flown to Salem several times now. Most years I'm able to purchase airfare 5-6 months in advance, and usually find a decent price - $300 or so. (This year I wanted to hold off in case IWU's women were in the Final Four and kind of got stuck in no man's land on the deal once IWU's women went down.) As you say, it is completely unaffordable to fly to Roanoke with 5-6 days notice from just about anywhere. Flying into Greensboro (about an hour and a half drive) isn't much better.

It really would be nice to find a location more accessible to more D3 fans. I just don't know what that would be though. Indianapolis - due to geographic location and size of the airport - seems to be a good fit on the surface.

The Roop · March 17, 2010, 03:19:13 PM

Cincinnati. Cintas and 5th/3rd both hold more than necessary but either one would be more convenient.

Just Bill · March 17, 2010, 03:27:41 PM

In general, the larger the city, the less they care/support about a Division III event.

When the women's tournament has been in a large city (like Danbury, CT which is a suburb of NYC) it's been wholly ignored. Nobody in New York cares when the Yankees are in spring training and they have dozens of pro and D-I teams.

That's why they've stuck to smaller cities like Terre Haute, Virigina Beach, Holland, Bloomington. In those cities a Division III event can be a big deal. Good local media coverage, community interest in the event. That's what works better.

Gregory Sager · March 17, 2010, 03:41:04 PM

They did have the men's tournament in Buffalo for a few years back in the '90s (Buff State has one of the largest arenas in D3; the Sports Arena holds 3,500). But I don't know how much local media coverage or community interest it drew.

hasanova · March 17, 2010, 04:03:17 PM

Quote from: Just Bill on March 17, 2010, 03:27:41 PM
In general, the larger the city, the less they care/support about a Division III event.

When the women's tournament has been in a large city (like Danbury, CT which is a suburb of NYC) it's been wholly ignored. Nobody in New York cares when the Yankees are in spring training and they have dozens of pro and D-I teams.

That's why they've stuck to smaller cities like Terre Haute, Virigina Beach, Holland, Bloomington. In those cities a Division III event can be a big deal. Good local media coverage, community interest in the event. That's what works better.

Bingo.

hasanova · March 17, 2010, 04:10:39 PM

My nephew played in the NAIA national tournament one year and it was in Branson, MO. Again, not a big town, but there were some other things to do from an entertainment point of view. NAIA, though, brings all the teams to one venue and finishes the tournament in about a week.

I think if you have the NCAA DIII tournament in a city without a DIII presence or that has over, oh say, 100,000 people, it'll be ignored. The best fan support comes in places where it's "the only game in town!"