MBB: Wisconsin Intercollegiate Athletic Conference

[Drake Palmer]

Regarding the Shane Manor & Dan Tillema dunks.

As a MIAC poster who doesn't have a horse in this race, I'd say the dunks by Shane Manor and Dan Tillema were both spectacular dunks, but I would have to side with PS on this one. On Manor's dunk you could see the way his body was squaring up that he was getting ready to uncork the big left-handed hammer.  Very nice.

But on Tillema's dunk, you see a little open court juke, and then you think he's just going in to finish the basket with a routine layup, when all of a sudden he started rising, & rising, & BAM! I love that dunk.

Unfortunately, one of the best D3 dunks that I ever saw never made YouTube.  It was "The Dunk" Joe Scott from UST had in the NCAA playoff game against UW-Stevens Point in 2009. This game was awesome.  A loud, packed house of Tommie & Pointer fans, and the game is a slugfest between two tough, talented teams.  

With 11 seconds left on the clock, UST was precariously hanging on to a 4 point lead at 51-47. UWSP's Khalifa El-Amin tried a layup which was blocked.  The rebound was snagged by UST's Al McCoy who looked up court & spotted a speeding Joe Scott.  McCoy fired the outlet pass, Scott gathered it in, takes one or two dribbles, & instead of going up for just a game ending dunk, Scott decided to do a two-handed reverse dunk which sent the arena into absolute pandemonium!  The place went nuts!  I was thinking "Wow - are you kidding me?!? What if he missed? This kid is crazy!!"  One of the ballsiest plays I've ever seen! If he would have missed that shot, the game could have gone the other way for Stevens Point.

Final score UST 53-50 UWSP.

[tomt4525]

The timing of that dunk would obviously be impressive, but I wouldn't side with wide open fast break dunks compared to contested throw downs like both Manor and Tillema had.  Also, If Scott thought there was any probability of missing a reverse jam, he wouldn't have done it at that juncture of the game.  I'd imagine he has done it over and over messing around in practice.

[fredfalcon]

Manor's definitely is more spectac, partly bcuz of his "hang time" afterward, and partly bcuz the camera is closer to the action. And uwrf is right--his block may be even more attention getting.

But why so much excitement about dunks?To me, the most spectacular, and difficult, feat in basketball is the "needle thread" bounce pass, the one that hits the cutter, in traffic, from a distance. I don't see You Tube shots of great passes, or even hear annoouncers give credit to assists most of the time. Why is that?

[East Beast]

Part of me wanted to ask how much of it really fell on the coach's shoulders as opposed to the players... but when you look at what appears to be necessary in terms of depth, that comes from recruiting.  And yes, to some extent the really good programs over recruit... but that's necessary on this level because of the nature of non-scholarship athletics.

I think this is one of UWO's biggest downfalls.....  It seems like they "target" a certain number of kids, (let's just say 8 for example.)  Well out of those 8, they lose 3-4 to other schools that were recruiting them as well.  Then with the remaing 4-5, 2-3 of them aren't willing to put in the time needed and either hang it up after a year.  That leaves you with only 2 or 3 kids to build around, and that doesn't even take into consideration the kid who doesn't develop much.

With that recruiting philosophy, you'll get a solid group every once in awhile, but not often enough to sustain any long-term success.  When you do get a solid group, you really have to "make hay!!!"

Thanks for making my point for me.  I couldn't have said it better myself. 

I think Capelle, Gibson and Jahnke had the support needed to go a long way.....and they went nowhere.  They just didn't get it right likely for all the reasons above.   Again, my opinion, we can differ, I am not interested in a protracted argument about the ability of coaches.  If the UW-O administration is willing to accept mediocrity, who am I to expect more?  I got a great education there which allows me to attend 60 plus games a year--I am just more choosy about that.

Hope they prove me wrong. 

[John Gleich]

Part of me wanted to ask how much of it really fell on the coach's shoulders as opposed to the players... but when you look at what appears to be necessary in terms of depth, that comes from recruiting.  And yes, to some extent the really good programs over recruit... but that's necessary on this level because of the nature of non-scholarship athletics.

I think this is one of UWO's biggest downfalls.....  It seems like they "target" a certain number of kids, (let's just say 8 for example.)  Well out of those 8, they lose 3-4 to other schools that were recruiting them as well.  Then with the remaing 4-5, 2-3 of them aren't willing to put in the time needed and either hang it up after a year.  That leaves you with only 2 or 3 kids to build around, and that doesn't even take into consideration the kid who doesn't develop much.

With that recruiting philosophy, you'll get a solid group every once in awhile, but not often enough to sustain any long-term success.  When you do get a solid group, you really have to "make hay!!!"

Thanks for making my point for me.  I couldn't have said it better myself. 

I think Capelle, Gibson and Jahnke had the support needed to go a long way.....and they went nowhere.  They just didn't get it right likely for all the reasons above.   Again, my opinion, we can differ, I am not interested in a protracted argument about the ability of coaches.  If the UW-O administration is willing to accept mediocrity, who am I to expect more?  I got a great education there which allows me to attend 60 plus games a year--I am just more choosy about that.

Hope they prove me wrong. 

If they had the support they needed, then it's on the players, not the coach.  If they didn't (i.e. recruiting deficiency) then it's on the coach.

I know that we all want our teams to be "up there" and playing in late February and March, but the fact of the matter is that not every team can do that. 

But it isn't like Oshkosh hasn't had recent success.  They've been the farthest of all conference teams not named Stevens Point since Eau Claire lost the championship in 1999-00. 

[Gregory Sager]

Manor's definitely is more spectac, partly bcuz of his "hang time" afterward, and partly bcuz the camera is closer to the action. And uwrf is right--his block may be even more attention getting.

But why so much excitement about dunks?To me, the most spectacular, and difficult, feat in basketball is the "needle thread" bounce pass, the one that hits the cutter, in traffic, from a distance. I don't see You Tube shots of great passes, or even hear annoouncers give credit to assists most of the time. Why is that?

Amen and amen, Fred. The beautiful pass that catches the defense unawares and creates an easy basket is the best play in basketball to watch, because it involves two teammates rather than just one player (hey, does anybody remember that this is a team game?); the degree of difficulty is higher; the guy who does the spectacular end of it isn't the guy who gets the glory; and it involves the fundamental skill of passing (sorry to say it, kids, but dunking is not a fundamental basketball skill).

Hey, get off of my lawn, you damned kids!

[Mr. Ypsi]

Besides which - A Dunk Only Counts Two Points.

(For the mystified, that is the title of a memoir by Dennie Bridges, legendary coach/AD at IWU.)

BTW, Greg, it is for the amazing passes that I am in the tiny minority that considers Magic Johnson the greatest bballer of all time.

[UWRF]

Here is the dunk again with the radio call attached...

http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=do1aoVIeiFk

[Titan Q]

UW-Whitewater @ Augie live stats...

http://www.augustana.edu/athletics/mbasketball/xlive.htm

[fredfalcon]

Amen and amen, Fred. The beautiful pass that catches the defense unawares and creates an easy basket is the best play in basketball to watch, because it involves two teammates rather than just one player (hey, does anybody remember that this is a team game?); the degree of difficulty is higher; the guy who does the spectacular end of it isn't the guy who gets the glory; and it involves the fundamental skill of passing (sorry to say it, kids, but dunking is not a fundamental basketball skill).


[/quote]

Well stated (don't we all agree with those who agree with us?) GS. The idea that bb is a team game relates to the whole  concept of a more or less forgotten stat:  assists.

[fredfalcon]

Mr. Ypsi--I've read, and enjoyed, the book by Denny Bridges. He got it.

[bballBG]

Manor's definitely is more spectac, partly bcuz of his "hang time" afterward, and partly bcuz the camera is closer to the action. And uwrf is right--his block may be even more attention getting.

Hang time?  Really?  I could barely dunk back in high school but I could hang on the rim for days...doesn't mean my dunk was good by any means. 

I do agree the block was nice.  I don't know why but I always love it when you see guys block a shot with two hands. 

[bulk19]

Dunking? Nah. I'm old school, and cherish, if one can call it that, Ha., the nice passes...

But give me a guy who, on the road, in a gym full of screaming meanies, waving hands, hootin' and hollerin' in the background, nails a free throw with no time left on the clock to win by one... 

[Drake Palmer]

Manor's definitely is more spectac, partly bcuz of his "hang time" afterward, and partly bcuz the camera is closer to the action. And uwrf is right--his block may be even more attention getting.

But why so much excitement about dunks?To me, the most spectacular, and difficult, feat in basketball is the "needle thread" bounce pass, the one that hits the cutter, in traffic, from a distance. I don't see You Tube shots of great passes, or even hear annoouncers give credit to assists most of the time. Why is that?

Amen and amen, Fred. The beautiful pass that catches the defense unawares and creates an easy basket is the best play in basketball to watch, because it involves two teammates rather than just one player (hey, does anybody remember that this is a team game?); the degree of difficulty is higher; the guy who does the spectacular end of it isn't the guy who gets the glory; and it involves the fundamental skill of passing (sorry to say it, kids, but dunking is not a fundamental basketball skill).

Hey, get off of my lawn, you damned kids!

Hey - who hijacked this conversation?  I believe the topic was about dunks right? Not about fundamental basketball skills.    Now don't get me wrong, I love the backdoor cut & bounce pass as much as any old timer, but I'm new school enough to love a good resounding dunk.  I'll take two more Mr. Tillema, Mr. Manor.  

[cubs]

Part of me wanted to ask how much of it really fell on the coach's shoulders as opposed to the players... but when you look at what appears to be necessary in terms of depth, that comes from recruiting.  And yes, to some extent the really good programs over recruit... but that's necessary on this level because of the nature of non-scholarship athletics.

I think this is one of UWO's biggest downfalls.....  It seems like they "target" a certain number of kids, (let's just say 8 for example.)  Well out of those 8, they lose 3-4 to other schools that were recruiting them as well.  Then with the remaing 4-5, 2-3 of them aren't willing to put in the time needed and either hang it up after a year.  That leaves you with only 2 or 3 kids to build around, and that doesn't even take into consideration the kid who doesn't develop much.

With that recruiting philosophy, you'll get a solid group every once in awhile, but not often enough to sustain any long-term success.  When you do get a solid group, you really have to "make hay!!!"

Thanks for making my point for me.  I couldn't have said it better myself. 

I think Capelle, Gibson and Jahnke had the support needed to go a long way.....and they went nowhere.  They just didn't get it right likely for all the reasons above.   Again, my opinion, we can differ, I am not interested in a protracted argument about the ability of coaches.  If the UW-O administration is willing to accept mediocrity, who am I to expect more?  I got a great education there which allows me to attend 60 plus games a year--I am just more choosy about that.

Hope they prove me wrong. 

If they had the support they needed, then it's on the players, not the coach.  If they didn't (i.e. recruiting deficiency) then it's on the coach.

I know that we all want our teams to be "up there" and playing in late February and March, but the fact of the matter is that not every team can do that. 

But it isn't like Oshkosh hasn't had recent success.  They've been the farthest of all conference teams not named Stevens Point since Eau Claire lost the championship in 1999-00. 

I have mentioned that before, but since that would be viewed as a positive for both UWO and Coach Van Dellen, East Beast chooses to ignore it instead.....   Just like someone else who used to frequent the boards......