MBB: Wisconsin Intercollegiate Athletic Conference

[badgerwarhawk]

It's funny how negative posts can get when you have a son go to a particular school and not get any playing time....  Maybe that is why coaches don't have the longevity that they used to. 

Too many helicopter parents!!!!

I don't think helicopter parents have much of an impact if a coach is winning.  If they aren't then that could be a different story but overall I don't think they have anywhere near the influence that they do at the high school level. 

[wcbsas]

It's funny how negative posts can get when you have a son go to a particular school and not get any playing time....  Maybe that is why coaches don't have the longevity that they used to. 

Too many helicopter parents!!!!

I don't think helicopter parents have much of an impact if a coach is winning.  If they aren't then that could be a different story but overall I don't think they have anywhere near the influence that they do at the high school level.

I think Cubs was referring to me as one.

[badgerwarhawk]

I was just making a general comment.  Personally I don't think parents have much influence with college coaches and/or administrators.

[wcbsas]

I was just making a general comment.  Personally I don't think parents have much influence with college coaches and/or administrators.

I agree, college coaches do a good job of separating parents from their kids and their programs.

[Greek Tragedy]

How does a coach go about recruiting transfers.  Does said tranfer contact the school first?  I believe the guy from UWGB contacted the Point coaching staff first and got the ball rolling.  Do they look at P.T. of players on teams and then recruit them by telling them they might get more playing time with them?  It almost seems like a professional team recruiting a player that's under contract with another team...is that even legal?  I've actually always wondered how that part of the recruiting process works.  It seems like Whitewater does a really good job of recruiting transfers, IMO.  I know Point has too, in the past, but the Warhawks always seem to find a really good player with two years of eligibility left.  Finding a transfer is different that finding a player currently playing at a two-year school and/or a juco, I understand that.  It seems almost unfair that Whitewater can churn out all-conference guys like McKay, Goodwin and Davis on a semi-regular basis! LOL   I say this with the best intentions.  I'm not complaining about their recruiting practices at all, in fact, I envy them sometimes for finding these guys! 

[Just Bill]

GT,

You can't directly recruit a player who is attending another school. It's tampering and it's most definitely a violation (but one that's difficult to prove.) In DI and DII the player would need to get a release from their school to have permission to talk to another school's coaching staff. A D3 player can self-release by completing a form from the NCAA website and sending it to the school's they want to talk to.

Generally "recruiting a transfer" happens when the player is being recurited as a HS school senior. The player picks school A, and when he tells school B, the school B coaching staff makes sure he knows "If it doesn't work out at school A, we'd love to have you come back to us at school B". That's really all a team can do until a release shows up in their mailbox (or inbox or fax machine if you're in 1985.)

Some coaching staffs no doubt send out to feelers on kids they recruited out of high school but didn't get. It may be a call to their old HS/AAU coach. "Have you heard from Jimmy up at school A? How's he liking it? Didn't seem like he played very much. Boy we sure liked him. Wish we could have had him in the post this past year." They hope the message gets back to Jimmy and he starts thinking about school B again.

Coaches may also use their current players who might know someone on another team. But if you tell a current player to contact a player from another team with a message that you'd be open to a transfer, you're probably in violation.

That's really as much as you can do. If you're anymore direct ("Hey tell Jimmy we want him to transfer to us.") or you contact a family member you're in violation.

[John Gleich]

How does a coach go about recruiting transfers.  Does said tranfer contact the school first?  I believe the guy from UWGB contacted the Point coaching staff first and got the ball rolling.  Do they look at P.T. of players on teams and then recruit them by telling them they might get more playing time with them?  It almost seems like a professional team recruiting a player that's under contract with another team...is that even legal?  I've actually always wondered how that part of the recruiting process works.  It seems like Whitewater does a really good job of recruiting transfers, IMO.  I know Point has too, in the past, but the Warhawks always seem to find a really good player with two years of eligibility left.  Finding a transfer is different that finding a player currently playing at a two-year school and/or a juco, I understand that.  It seems almost unfair that Whitewater can churn out all-conference guys like McKay, Goodwin and Davis on a semi-regular basis! LOL   I say this with the best intentions.  I'm not complaining about their recruiting practices at all, in fact, I envy them sometimes for finding these guys!

Before a scholarship player can speak to another team (either another scholarship school or a D-III), they need a release from the program.  ... Well, actually, before the other team can speak to the scholarship player, the player must receive a release from the original program.

As we talked about last summer, a D-III player needs a release to talk to another school... but they can self-release.  (Again, order is wrong... Before the other school can talk to the D-III player, they need the release, but the D-III player can self-release).

Certain programs are attractive for transfers (notably ones with good tradition and fan bases, as well as other good players that have "grown up" in the program).

[wcbsas]

I do know college coaches (particularly assistants) keep track of players they recruited.  Heuer is a perfect example, he was recruited by UWSP, he received a D1 offer and for the most part he was off the table but they tracked him.  Coaches talk to other coaches all the time.  I suspect Semling might've talked to Wardle (or Semling's assistant might've talked to Wardle's assistants) and said if player X, Y or z doesn't work out please keep  me in mind.

Once the D1 or D2 track doesn't work out players often initiate the action themselves or in conjunction with their parents/coaches ... they just want to play.

[wcbsas]

GT,

You can't directly recruit a player who is attending another school. It's tampering and it's most definitely a violation (but one that's difficult to prove.) In DI and DII the player would need to get a release from their school to have permission to talk to another school's coaching staff. A D3 player can self-release by completing a form from the NCAA website and sending it to the school's they want to talk to.

What is interesting is there are two different type's of releases ... one that allows a player to talk to another school and another that allows him to transfer.  Grant Johnson, formerly from Kenosha Christian Life, played at UW-Parkside.  He got a release to talk to Winona State and ended up transferring to WSU.  He played for about half the past season until it was discovered that WSU did not have the other type of release.

Johnson was ruled ineligible, the games he played in were essentially forfeited and WSU as a result went from the region's #1 team to a non-qualifier.

[badgerwarhawk]

Both Goodwin and McKay were players that we had recruited in high school  Of course in Goodwin's case his father had played for us.  Antoine Bryd is another player with a family connection that we had recruited in high school who initially went the JC route before transfering.  I'm not sure about Chris Davis.  His path to WHITEWATER was a bit different. 

[Gregory Sager]

Finding a transfer is different that finding a player currently playing at a two-year school and/or a juco, I understand that.

I'm not following your logic here, Tom. Former juco players that enroll at four-year schools are transfers. It doesn't matter whether or not you've received an A.A. degree from a junior college; you're still a transfer when you move on to a four-year school. The word "transfer" encompasses any student-athlete who moves from one institution of higher learning to another, regardless of the type of institution at either end of the process.

Bill, PS, and wcbsas pretty much covered the waterfront in describing the transfer process from one four-year institution to another. The juco recruiting process is similiar to recruiting high-school players, although the means by which players are scouted and identified may have different emphases (more time spent at off-season showcases and less time spent at actual in-season games, f'rinstance, as compared to high-schoolers). Like high-schoolers, there's a lot of wooing going on by the coaches and (oftentimes) strategically pitting one school against another by the player -- it's my observation that juco players tend to be cannier about that, as they're two years older and have a better grasp of how to manipulate the recruiting process for their own advantage.

There's a third category which nobody has brought up yet, and that's the lapsed transfer; i.e., a student-athlete who left his previous school a year or two prior to initial contact by another school. You'd be surprised at how many of these kinds of players have fallen through the cracks over the years, only to be found by a D3 school somewhere down the road. A lot of times personal or family circumstances or a need to go out and make some money before continuing schooling will cause a player to let a year or more lapse between leaving one school and starting another. Sometimes these players just show up on campus, but sometimes they need to be recruited -- especially if they're on the radar of more than one school.

[Greek Tragedy]

I just meant that at a 2-year juco or a 2-year tech college, there probably isn't going to be any violation since you know they are done after two years.  You aren't stepping on anyone's feet since they will be done with that school.  Unless there are 4-year junior colleges that I'm not counting.  Obviously, with 4-year schools, there needs to be some kind of release. 

[John Gleich]

Finding a transfer is different that finding a player currently playing at a two-year school and/or a juco, I understand that.

I'm not following your logic here, Tom. Former juco players that enroll at four-year schools are transfers. It doesn't matter whether or not you've received an A.A. degree from a junior college; you're still a transfer when you move on to a four-year school. The word "transfer" encompasses any student-athlete who moves from one institution of higher learning to another, regardless of the type of institution at either end of the process.

Bill, PS, and wcbsas pretty much covered the waterfront in describing the transfer process from one four-year institution to another. The juco recruiting process is similiar to recruiting high-school players, although the means by which players are scouted and identified may have different emphases (more time spent at off-season showcases and less time spent at actual in-season games, f'rinstance, as compared to high-schoolers). Like high-schoolers, there's a lot of wooing going on by the coaches and (oftentimes) strategically pitting one school against another by the player -- it's my observation that juco players tend to be cannier about that, as they're two years older and have a better grasp of how to manipulate the recruiting process for their own advantage.

I think Tom was referring to the fact that Juco kids can be recruited in a similar way to HS kids. Yes, they're transfers in that they're moving from one institute of post-HS education to another, but the methods and contact have much different rules than does the contact between the coach at the future school and the athlete still attending the old one.

There's a third category which nobody has brought up yet, and that's the lapsed transfer; i.e., a student-athlete who left his previous school a year or two prior to initial contact by another school. You'd be surprised at how many of these kinds of players have fallen through the cracks over the years, only to be found by a D3 school somewhere down the road. A lot of times personal or family circumstances or a need to go out and make some money before continuing schooling will cause a player to let a year or more lapse between leaving one school and starting another. Sometimes these players just show up on campus, but sometimes they need to be recruited -- especially if they're on the radar of more than one school.

BW will need to correct me if I'm wrong (and I very well might be), but I think that Chris Davis was in this situation.

FWIW, I believe that Kyle Grusczynski, Ross Foreman, and Dan Tillema all were too.

[Gregory Sager]

I just meant that at a 2-year juco or a 2-year tech college, there probably isn't going to be any violation since you know they are done after two years.  You aren't stepping on anyone's feet since they will be done with that school.  Unless there are 4-year junior colleges that I'm not counting.  Obviously, with 4-year schools, there needs to be some kind of release.

Right. I'm just saying that the terminology is the same; they're all transfers, whether they're coming from a two-year school or a four-year school.

One thing I'll add, though, is that a player who falls into that third category -- lapsed transfer -- won't need a release. I'm pretty sure that the NCAA transfer release rules only apply to student-athletes who are currently enrolled somewhere.

[cubs]

UW-Oshkosh conducted phone interviews with 7 candidates last week. Next phase will be to bring some of those candidates on campus. Four of the candidates are head coaches with 3 currently at the collegiate level. The other 3 are assistants in college.