MBB: Wisconsin Intercollegiate Athletic Conference

[badgerwarhawk]

While we've had teams with more talent one of the positives about this year's team is the defense.  There have been lapses but overall this team plays better defense than many others we've had.   We've always been ranked high in the conference in points scored but what's different this year is that we're in the middle of the pack in points allowed and not the bottom of it. 

It was a significant factor, particularly down the stretch, in the win against Point at Williams Center as well.

Now it's important, with Oshkosh looming on the horizon, that we don't overlook River Falls.  If we get lazy and they get on a roll and start hitting threes we could be in for plenty of trouble.   But I'm sure that's something the staff will address in prepartations.

The regular season race is nice but it's all going to boil down to the conference tournament and I'm betting that we'll only see one team in the post season tournament unless Stout wins out and then loses the tournament championship game.   So the tournament championship should be every other team's goal if they want to keep playing in March.

[Greek Tragedy]

From watching the Point game last nite, it seems to me that Point needs to stop running that motion offense because they are bad at it.  It looks like guys are lost out there and just hoping to get open for a three.  And where is Point Defense at?? 

If last night was the first game you've seen Point play, I would venture to guess you need to see more than one game.  Sometimes you have to give the other team credit and just say you were outplayed.  Point's motion offense isn't as good as it was last year, admittedly, but Point has played some really good games this year.  I think Brian Carroll and charmax will tell you that they were very impressed with Point's motion offense both times they played La Crosse. 

On the other hand, they have obviously looked horrible at times where players do look like they are just standing around and not doing anything (like last night, apparently).  I give Coach Semling and the players a lot of credit thus far.  The inconsistencies will be attributed to the youth of the team and I hope this only makes them better next year.  They are only a game out of first place and I'm not sure how many people thought they would be where they are now.  Sure, they've lost some bad nonconference games, but for the most part, they've played very well in the conference. 

[Greek Tragedy]

Off the basketball subject a tad, but Old School, where did you get your handle?  I watched the movie "Old School" on the bus ride home from Superior last night and I had a thought:Could "Old School" be Old School.  It was the uncut version and my favorite part was old "Blue" biting the dust. 

Inquiring minds want to know!  O.K.  It has nothing to do with the movie (I had it before the movie even came out) The Old School handle has several different origins.  1.)  I'm a big 80's guy.  I love the 80's music and I loved shows like The A-Team, Transformers and all that.  I also dug the 80's rap from "Yo MTV Raps" with Ed Lover and (the original) Dr. Dre.  So, when "Working for the Weekend" from Lover Boy would come on (for example), I'd be like, "Yeah man, that's old school!" or when I hear some Run D.M.C. or whatever (that "rap" today sucks), I'd be like, "Yo, now that's old school rap!"  You get the idea.  2.) It took me a little longer to graduate than some people; we'll leave it at that.  When I was playing soccer at Lakeland, I was considered the old man and several of my fellow teammates would harrass me about my age, "So, you're like 42 now, right?"  When anything that was related to "my time" was discussed, the younger players would refer that subject matter to me, "Oh yeah, that's old school stuff, Tom would know about that."

While your at it, Old School, tell us where the heck the name "Swampgoon" came from.     

Swampgoon is classic.  Dave and I grew up in Point and back in the early 90's, Point's hockey team was really, really good (back when we were spanking St. Norb's 21-1 and when Stout didn't even have a hockey team).  They won like four titles in five years (89, 90, 91, 93).  The 3rd title we went out to Elmira, I think.  First year was RIT, 2nd was in Point, 3rd was Elmira, 92 we lost at Plattsburg and 93 we were in Minnesota, yeah, that's right...anyway, back then it was basically the two West teams (usually NCHA teams) vs the two East teams in the semis.  It was Point vs. Babson (I think) and Mankato State vs. Elmira.  The deal with hockey back then was that the West teams had the big strong players and the East teams had the little fast guys.  The East teams' fans were shocked of how big our teams were.  From an exact quote from one of the opposing teams' fans, regarding our size, "You guys are a bunch of SWAMPGOONS!"  I dont' think any of those East teams knew anything about checking because we literally crushed them! .  One of the fans had a cowbell and was just banging on that constantly.  Dave and I looked at her and she said, "What, is that annoying you?"  And with a smirk on our face, we responded, "Lady, we're from Wisconsin, are you kidding me?"

And the legends live on.

[BDB]

That's good stuff, Old School.

Coach Mark Thomas of the Stout women's basketball team dubbed me "BlueDevil Bob" around a bunch of people one time, and it stuck like glue.

Good thing I like it. 

[Brian Carroll]

  Here is a reactionary idea: Forget the Conference tourney. Let the regular season champ get the NCAA bid. Simple. Fair. Real Old School.

[bulk19]

OK - To run with that thought of doing away with the conference tournament... I wonder if that would increase or decrease the chances of getting a second team into the NCAA tourney? Probably no right answer to that...

Scenarios I thought might occur, with no conference tourney:
You wouldn't have a bottom team, say a 5-8, that got hot and won the WIAC tourney, thus taking away an automatic bid from any of the 1-4 seeds defeated in that conference tournament. Those 1-4 teams would then require at large bids, which have been hard to come by.

On the other hand, if the conference season champs automatically go, you wouldn't have the rest of the teams further cannabalizing themselves in the WIAC tourney, a la the regular season. That could prevent a second WIAC from getting a loss in the conference tournament that might keep it from the NCAA tournament...

Interesting question. Not sure how I feel about eliminating the conference tournament, but I guess I'd say keep it???

[Greek Tragedy]

It's a catch-22.  In 2004, Point ended the regular season with a loss to Superior at home and finished 20-5.  That may not have been enough to get them an at-large bid since River Falls won the conference by one game over Point and Whitewater.  Of course, they went on to win nine in a row and claim their first of two National titles.  In 2003, Oshkosh finished 3rd in the standings but went on a run, beat Point in the Conference Tourney final and both got bids, with Oshkosh falling in the Elite 8.  Without the tourney, Oshkosh probably wouldn't have had a chance to do that. So it goes.

If anything, I would like the conference tourney to go to a Friday/Saturday format with just the top four teams advancing to the regular season champion's campus for a "Final Four".

[titansrus]

Hey guys, here's something Mr. Downtown and I were mulling over on our sports talk radio show on campus last night. In looking at the regional rankings and seeing Stout ranked third in the west with La Crosse 4th, do you guys think there is a remote possibility the WIAC could get 3, that's right, 3 teams into the national tournament? The scenario we thought of was that La Crosse beats Stout at La Crosse and then they face each other in the conference tournament and Stout beats La Crosse, and then another team wins the conference tournament. In that scenario, La Crosse would lose only 1 more game, while Stout would lose 2 (since they'd be losing in the championship game). Am I just dreaming, or is it not out of the realm of possibility?

[BDB]

If anything, I would like the conference tourney to go to a Friday/Saturday format with just the top four teams advancing to the regular season champion's campus for a "Final Four".

Now that's Old School. Fabulous idea.

[Gregory Sager]

Two more losses might be too much.  It's not like Stout has a super great QOWI.  I think it was in the mid-30's.  They are on top of the WIAC right now and if that holds true with two remaining games, that means they'll only have ONE away game left.  Losing at home is not very profitable when it comes to keeping a high QOWI.  Losing to La Crosse on the road won't kill them, but it would severely injure their chances.  As a WIAC fan, I would love to see Stout not win the conference tourney and still get a Pool C bid.  Five losses is a lot.  Oh yeah, I'm still rooting for Point this weekend!  (obviously).

UW-Stout's actually at 25th in the national QOWI list, one spot behind UW-LaCrosse, as of Pat's last computations. The Blue Devils have probably slipped a bit since then, because Wednesday's home win over hapless UW-Superior was only worth 8 QOWI points.

The regional rankings are a more important barometer of the selection committee's thinking than the QOWI list, because the regional rankings are: a) an official NCAA release; and b) a device that takes all five criteria into account, not just the QOWI. And the West Region rankings currently have UW-Stout sitting pretty at third out of eight West Region spots. A regular-season loss would probably drop them to sixth or seventh, although, like I said, a home loss to UWSP would be more damaging than a road loss to UW-LaCrosse in that regard. They'd still do well in that final, unseen ranking on Selection Monday if they won a pair of tournament games and then dropped the WIAC title game, because similar fates would be befalling at-larges all across the country, and UW-Stout would have the built-in advantage of being ranked in their region prior to their conference tournament.

So, in other words, while it certainly wouldn't help the cause of the Blue Devils and there would be no guarantees, I think that another regular-season loss is survivable for them. Five regional losses is a lot, but it's not the deal-breaker that it used to be. There's 18 Pool C bids available now.

Hey guys, here's something Mr. Downtown and I were mulling over on our sports talk radio show on campus last night. In looking at the regional rankings and seeing Stout ranked third in the west with La Crosse 4th, do you guys think there is a remote possibility the WIAC could get 3, that's right, 3 teams into the national tournament? The scenario we thought of was that La Crosse beats Stout at La Crosse and then they face each other in the conference tournament and Stout beats La Crosse, and then another team wins the conference tournament. In that scenario, La Crosse would lose only 1 more game, while Stout would lose 2 (since they'd be losing in the championship game). Am I just dreaming, or is it not out of the realm of possibility?

That's a bigger longshot, Titansrus, because that scenario means that UW-LaCrosse falls one step short of the conference tourney title game. In other words, the Eagles miss out on the all-important semifinal win that (theoretically) boosts a team's QOWI because you presumably have to beat a team with a good regional record in that conference semi. Plus, it's one more regional win they wouldn't have under their belts. But, yeah, it's theoretically possible. As always, it's totally contingent upon what happens elsewhere around the country, especially among the other teams ranked within the West Region.

[titan2000]

If anything, I would like the conference tourney to go to a Friday/Saturday format with just the top four teams advancing to the regular season champion's campus for a "Final Four".

Now that's Old School. Fabulous idea.

That's what they do in the MWC.  It's top two teams would probably do well in the WIAC tourney based on performances by CC and LU this year in WIAC/MWC matchups.

If you did that, the rats wouldn't have a ship to jump back on in the event that TVD gets the sails repaired for the tournament, as I believe they wouldn't qualify for it. 

[badgerwarhawk]

It's the conference itself who's decided the tournament winner gets the automatic bid and not the NCAA so they could change it at any time if they so desired.  However, at least at this point, they don't desire.  The same thing is true with the conference tournament.  They could drop it at any time.  But they won't and the reason is actually pretty simple.  There are fewer "haves" in the league than there are "have nots."  Some programs realize their chances of winning the regular season championship consistantly enough aren't that good.  So they see the tournament as one last chance and whenever the issue comes to a vote they're in the majority and prevail.  If my memory is correct the last time the vote was 6-3 in favor of continuing the tournament with  WHITEWATER[/color], Stevens Point and, I believe, Oshkosh voting against.
That's the reason it's unlikely that there will be a Final Four type format as well.   

Trus, Hell will freeze, thaw and re-freeze before the WIAC gets three teams in the national tournament.   

[Just Bill]

The conference decided a few years ago that a) they wanted conference tournaments in their sports and b) they weren't going to play a conference tournament that didn't have something meaningful at stake.

A few years ago, women's soccer had a screwy point system that determined the conference champ and the AQ bid.  As a result one school (UWSP I believe)had the AQ locked up before the semifinals of the WIAC tournament.  The conference was praying they would go ahead and with the tourney so they didn't have to try and explain to people why they're presenting the conference championship trophy to the team that lost in the championship game.

After that, the league made sure that the AQ was always on the line in the conference tournament.  The coaches do have some say over the format of the conference tournament.  For example, Women's Soccer trimmed the field from 8 to 6, and Baseball has stuck with 4.

Could they repeal these rules?  Sure.  Will they?  No.

[Greek Tragedy]

Prior to tonight's results of course (record-wise).  Conference leaders are crossed out.  At this point, we'll assume current conference leaders win the Pool A bids.

Atlantic
1. Bernard Baruch 18-1 20-3 (CUNYAC)
2. William Paterson 14-5 15-6 (NJAC)
3. The College of New Jersey 12-5 14-5 (NJAC)
4. Farmingdale 12-4 15-4 (Skyline)
5. Mount St. Mary (New York) 15-4 18-4 (Skyline)

East
1. Cortland State 18-1 19-2 (SUNYAC)
2. St. John Fisher 14-1 16-3 (Empire 8 )
3. New York University 16-3 17-3 (UAA)
4. Hamilton 13-3 17-3 (Liberty)
5. Rochester 11-5 14-6 (UAA)

Great Lakes
1. Wooster 16-1 20-1 (NCAC)
2. Hope 13-1 19-1 (MIAA)
3. Carnegie Mellon 13-2 17-3 (UAA)
4. Baldwin-Wallace 16-2 18-2 (OAC)
5. Wittenberg 14-2 19-2 (NCAC)
6. Calvin   7-1 16-5 (MIAA)

Mid-Atlantic
1. York (Pennsylvania) 16-2 18-2 (CAC)
2. Widener 16-3 17-3 (MACC) beat Messiah
3. Ursinus 15-3 16-5 (Centennial) beat Johns Hopkins
4. Lincoln (Pennsylvania) 11-4 19-4 (Independent) Pool B
5. Alvernia 14-3 17-4 (PnAC)
5. Johns Hopkins 14-3 16-4 (Centennial)
7. Catholic 13-4 15-5 (CAC)
8. Messiah 13-5 14-7 (MACC)

Midwest
1. Lawrence 17-0 19-0 (MWC)
2. Augustana (Illinois) 18-0 19-1 (CCIW)
3. Transylvania 17-3 18-3 (HCAC)
4. Carroll (Wisconsin) 16-2 18-2 (MWC)
4. Illinois Wesleyan 11-3 17-3 (CCIW)
6 Lakeland 14-3 18-5 (LMC)
7. North Central (Illinois) 10-4 16-4 (CCIW)
8. Washington U. in St. Louis 10-5 13-7 (UAA)

Northeast
1. Amherst 19-1 20-2 (NESCAC)
2. Worcester Polytechnic 18-1 19-1 (NEWMAC)
3. Tufts   16-3 17-4 (NESCAC)
4. Gordon 16-2 17-3 (CCC-N)
5. Bates   14-3 18-3 (NESCAC)
6. Williams 16-5 17-5 (NESCAC
7. Trinity (Connecticut) 13-3 16-4 (NESCAC) beat Amherst
8. Salem State 14-5 14-6 (MASCAC)
9. Norwich 12-3 12-5 (GNAC) this site has Norwich at 14-4 in-region and they didn't play tonight (??)
10. Keene State 11-6 14-6 (Little East)

South
1. Mississippi College 17-1 19-1 (ASC-E)
2. Trinity (Texas) 12-2 16-5 (SCAC) swept Southwestern
3. Virginia Wesleyan 18-3 19-3 (ODAC)
4. Fisk   9-2 14-7 (GSAC) Pool B split with Maryville
5. Howard Payne 15-3 16-3 (ASC-W)
6. Randolph-Macon 14-5 17-5 (ODAC)
7. Southwestern (Texas) 12-4 16-5 (SCAC)
8. Maryville (Tennessee.) 13-5 17-5 (GSAC) Pool B split with Fisk

West
1. Occidental 9-1 16-2 (SCIAC)
2. Puget Sound 12-1 17-3 (NWC)
3. Wisconsin-Stout 14-3 17-4 (WIAC)
4. Wisconsin-La Crosse 15-5 17-5 (WIAC)
5. Wartburg 15-3 17-4 (IIAC)
6. Willamette 15-3 14-6 (NWC)
7. Carleton 12-4 15-5 (MIAC)
8. Wisconsin-Whitewater 11-5 15-5 (WIAC)

I posted this over on the Pool C board, but since most of us like to "stay home" in the WIAC board, I thought I'd copy it here.  Looking at the regional rankings, I think it's too much to ask for La Crosse to lose again before the conference championship.  La Crosse with 6 losses is a lot.  Not only do you have to look at the West Region, which they are 4th (and possibly 2nd if Occidental and Puget Sound gain Pool A bids), but you also have to look at all the other regions as well.  I think six in-region losses may be too many...but we'll have to see who things play out, obviously!

[Pat Coleman]

We'll have new QOWI in an hour or so, for those interested.