MBB: Wisconsin Intercollegiate Athletic Conference

[John Gleich]

The immediate thing that concerns me with Point's injuries and ailments is that, many times, injuries come from a lack of conditioning and/or a lack of strength.

Yes, a guy can roll an ankle at any time (or blow out your knee, a la Derrick Rose last year), but so many other injuries or chronic ailments are due to either lack of conditioning (you're tired, so you're a step late trying to stop a guy and there's a collision, etc) or lack of strength (you're dispossessed on a rebound or in the post and you fall down and go boom... and hurt yourself).

With strength usually comes extra girth... 5, 10, 20 extra pounds, and physics takes over. A collision between a guy who's 220 and a guy who's 185 will always end badly for the guy who's 185.

Due to the general youth of the team and the experience being, by and large, in smaller guards, this is to be expected and unfortunately there isn't much you can do about it during the year.

This needs to take place in the offseason, with maintenance done during the season.

I'll remind those of you who have been around a while to the year before Point's back-to-back championships. In the shootaround before the Whitewater game @ SP, Sophomore Nick Bennett came down awkwardly and his back went out. Freshman Brian Bauer stepped in and scored 15 points (and he'd start the rest of the year). Bennett was out 4 games and though he came back in the last 3 and had a positive impact, it was another injury, this time to Josh Iserloth, that caused the season to end prematurely at the hands of Gustavus Adolphus, who out-muscled UWSP

Fast forward a year... and one of the things that Nick (and the rest of the team) did in the offseason was hit the weight room. He became a more multi-dimensional player... and he developed a pull-up jumper to go along with his outside shooting.


The young guys need to battle through this season... and then they need to grow into their college bodies. This means putting on a few pounds of muscle while continuing to stay in good condition, and the injuries will decrease.

[tomt4525]

Hass had a great game.Richard had a nice second half. Demetrius Jackson showed some nice skills. Heuer obviously will do well this season. Zeimer and Thorne quit the team earlier. Studer struggled inside and only made one outside shot. Rob DeMyers flashed some skills. Van Handel has had a good fall but is rehabbing a sprained knee right now. Gio is working through a back ailment but will be there. Ty Tillema has an ankle he's working on but I'm sure he will be there when the bell rings. Overall a good amount of talent. Should be another good year though the conference of course is deep and good.

Sounds like some of the newbies have some skill and will definitely be players in the future.  I'm definitely a little disappointed Thorn didn't stick it out.  Point had some depth in the size department in the next few years and some of that just left the building.  I would imagine Thorn will be following his brother to St. Norbert now.

[tomt4525]

Heard some very interesting and disappointing news about the Whitewater squad last night.  Apparently some of the players haven't been getting along and even erupted into a fistfight amongst a couple players.  I wasn't given specific players but from what I heard, it sounded like Lindfors and Evans were the two involved.  Also was told that a broken hand and someone getting knocked out cold were what transpired from the altercation.  This could easily derail a season if there are more problems, not to mention these injuries could sideline these players for awhile.

[fredfalcon]

havej--not sure who he is, but if he's the small, quick guard who was not on the team a year ago, that's what he is: small, quick, fast. Also aggressive, but did not score much while I watched. Based on that one look, he will not replace Kimble, esp. as a rebounder, and may not as a scorer.

[Greek Tragedy]

Surprised about Thorn too.  He looked like he had the credentials to play.  All-State, conference player of the year etc.  Plus, he was a big man. 

From reading posts and such, this is what I got.

We have 5 of 8 reported recruits still on the team:

Heuer
DeMyers
McGann
Patterson-a post said he was 6'6" but the report on the recruiting class had him at 6'8"
Studer

Looks like we kept most of the "bigs"

Parker, Miklasz and Thorn are no longer with the team.

Returning from last year's team

Forsythe
Giordana
Hass
Lutz
Richard
Ritchay
Ryf
Tillema
Van Handel

Kacala, Parlow and Ziemer are gone from last year's team

We have two new guys that are apparently walk-ons?

Mike Ward
Demetrius Jackson

And two coming in at the semester

DeVon Jackson and someone else.


I'm pretty pumped for the season to start and should make the opener at Lawrence in Appleton in a week!

[John Gleich]

Concerning your previous point about transfers Tom...

Is it me or does there seem to be an upward trend on recruiting transfers? It always seemed like Whitewater adds 3 or 4 tranfers each year, but it looks like other teams are making more of an effort to do so. Is there a trend? Is it good for the conference? Is it bad?

Personally, I don't know how much of it is a shift in the WIAC culture, any more than it is a shift in the college basketball culture in general.

I don't have any statistics to back this up, but it seems like lots more players are transferring these days.

I know the culture of high school basketball has changed. Everybody who's anybody plays AAU ball now and in many respects, players have more loyalty (and certainly more exposure) with their AAU program than their high school program.


Now, regarding your last two questions... if this is good or bad.


There are a couple different schools of thought on it.

First off, lots of talented players are getting snatched up by scholarship programs. They may have a high upside... lots of potential... but if they don't get playing time early, they may become disillusioned with the idea and look for a place that they can actually play. I think in some respects, this is part of the reason why Heuer is here (though, to be true, he was recruited by Tod Kowalczyk, who proceeded to leave UWGB for Toledo).

So, in order to get some of the more talented kids (or kids with higher potential, at least when they were in high school?) is for them to transfer after a year or two or three at a D-II or a D-I school.

Those guys may give you a boost... but there isn't a whole lot of continuity in the program. The make-up of the team from one year to another can be vastly different... which can affect the chemistry of a team. And it can make players who have been there for years and who get passed up for playing time become disillusioned... and not want to continue playing.

Oftentimes when a player transfers in, they're more developed physically, so they're more ready to step in and play compared to a freshman. That makes sense... they've got a year or two or three on the newbie... they've just developed more.

But, depending which program they came from, they may not have honed the skills that they necessarily need to succeed in the program they're moving to. I'm thinking of either ball handling skills, or defensive skills, or perhaps strength and conditioning. So they might be a good stopgap for the time being... but if you patch holes in a dam with gum over and over, eventually it'll fail.


That's why it's probably best to go with recruited players straight through. They (hopefully) have loyalty to the program and will work hard within the system to get better and stronger. As they get older, they'll have a better understanding of the offense/defense and they'll be better suited physically to fill the roles for which they were originally recruited.

It's a bit disheartening and scary that Point had two seniors last year and two juniors... and they'll have two seniors and two juniors this year. The drop-off of sophomores is what's scary. Those are guys who have put in two years... but then they don't continue.

This, yet again, means that there will be lots of pressure on first or second year players. Luckily, it will probably be second year players, by and large (as everybody off the bench last year was a freshman) which should be some marked improvement from a defensive standpoint... another year in helps guys to understand where they're supposed to be and what they're supposed to do!

But I'm hoping that we'll see more offensive output from the second five. Last year's team was a two-to-three-headed monster, especially down the stretch.. and Point's offense, though it can be run primarily through a couple of high scorers runs more efficiently when there are five pieces out there that can score.


Anyway, I've digressed pretty far from my original discussion. Concerning high school recruits as opposed to transfers... I think that there is typically a better/longer lasting relationship with a recruit than a transfer (unless the transfer was recruited in HS, perhaps) that helps in development.

But there is a definite risk in going off of high school recruits. A coach recruits based off of past (ie High School) results and the hope of future growth in a different atmosphere (faster, more physical, etc). But not everybody pans out. Especially in D-III, as many have mentioned in the past, there's lots pulling for people's time and energy, between school and life in general... so if the love isn't there for the game, it isn't like they'd be losing out on a scholarship if they didn't play.


Oy.   Lots there.  I guess the season's almost about to start for real!!

[John Gleich]

Heard some very interesting and disappointing news about the Whitewater squad last night.  Apparently some of the players haven't been getting along and even erupted into a fistfight amongst a couple players.  I wasn't given specific players but from what I heard, it sounded like Lindfors and Evans were the two involved.  Also was told that a broken hand and someone getting knocked out cold were what transpired from the altercation.  This could easily derail a season if there are more problems, not to mention these injuries could sideline these players for awhile.

As with everything else, there are a couple of ways to look at this.

Certainly, a team doesn't want division within the program. You don't want to have guys who truly don't like each other and you don't want to have guys who are out to hurt another guy.

I don't know what the source was (and I'm not necessarily questioning the validity, especially something like this where there's a potential for either medical care or campus security to get in the mix... i.e. an "unable to keep news from spreading" type of event) but sometimes things get blown out of proportion in translation too.


Now, all of that said, a little scuff or a scrum amongst teammates isn't always a bad thing. It could be a sign that the guys are really getting after it on the floor in practice. That's a good thing, but again, this is just practice and I think it is possible to take the level of competition too high sometimes.

Hopefully for UWW's sake, it was just a heat of the moment type incident and everyone will eventually be ok. The Warhawks are coming off a tremendous season last year and they have high hopes again this year and a lot of things athletically have been going right in southern Wisconsin (... despite the fact that the Warhawks football team won't even make the NCAA Playoffs this year, they're still going to have a winning season. Not quite up to recent standards by any account, but it's not like they went 0-10).



Concerning Whitewater... Voice posted last night on his blog.

These are some of his observations from watching the team:



1: The intensity of practice. That intensity was very noticeable last year.


2: The focus on defense and rebounding. It is a must now in the Warhawk system.


3. The overall athleticism and how that fits into the WW system.


4.  Last year's returnees experience and attitude shows in practice


5.  Last year Chris Davis led the WIAC in both scoring and rebounding. This year the scoring especially will be accomplished more "by committee."


6.  WW returns three of the top 15 in the conference in assists (Merg, Bryson, Young)


7.  I look for Luke Knoble to be among the top inside players in the conference. Not flashy but as solid as any big man in the WIAC.


8.  The Hawks have several quality freshmen and transfers. As is always the case, how will they be able to play within the WW system and blend in with the returnees.

I responded with this:

Seeing #2 as a UWW focus is scary (from a "rest of the WIAC" standpoint). I think that this is part of the piece that the Warhawks had missed over the years a little bit and it was the reason that they weren't able to get over the hump nationally until last year.

I think historically, UWW had very talented offensive and especially very athletic players. These players were able to have success earlier in the year before team defenses have really figured themselves out.

But I think that UWW has struggled (I'm not talking major struggles, but minor ones) against elite teams because the other elite teams have put in the work defensively to continue to improve.

This may just be a perception thing and it's a generalization (I don't think it is true of every UWW team prior to last year), but I had thought that UWW was going to be able to make a good run purely because of their defensive intensity last year, and they proved me right.

Elite teams need to be able to grind out victories as opposed to simply trying to outscore people, and we really saw that from the Warhawks last season.


The other thing that I saw from last year's UWW team that was, shall we say, atypical, was their ability to take care of the basketball and their willingness to share the basketball (#'s 5 and 6 above).

Here's the turnover margin and assist to turnover ratio from the last four years:

08-09 -0.97 0.95
09-10 -1.24 1.09
10-11 -0.04 1.03
11-12 +2.67 1.12

The dramatic upturn in the turnover margin means that this is as many as 3-4 more possessions that UWW gets a chance to score instead of the opponent. That may not seem like a lot, but it actually has twice this impact. It's 6-8 chances to increase a lead (take away an opponent's chance AND provide an offensive chance).

That's huge, especially when you have the type of players that Whitewater does who can create something out of nothing... and when they're able to create AND look for their teammates, it creates an offensive machine that's very hard to stop.

I said this last year, but UWW in 2011-12 reminded me a lot of UWSP from 2003-04 and 2004-05. They played good defense, they took care of the ball, and they spread the ball around to the open player. They did have a star in Chris Davis, and they leaned on him when they needed to, but they were opportunistic and shared the ball.

If they can continue to do this, then I think they very well may find that they have success not only in the conference, but nationally as well.


OK, I'm done writing manifestos. As least until lunchtime...

[Just Bill]

If PointSpecial is ever put on death row he'll never see the chair. He'll be able to live out the rest of his natural life simply by requesting to read his last words.

[John Gleich]

If PointSpecial is ever put on death row he'll never see the chair. He'll be able to live out the rest of his natural life simply by requesting to read his last words.

... So I've got that going for me... which is nice!      

[Greek Tragedy]

Sometimes I need to rest after reading his posts. LOL 

[stoutguy]

Heard some very interesting and disappointing news about the Whitewater squad last night.  Apparently some of the players haven't been getting along and even erupted into a fistfight amongst a couple players.  I wasn't given specific players but from what I heard, it sounded like Lindfors and Evans were the two involved.  Also was told that a broken hand and someone getting knocked out cold were what transpired from the altercation.  This could easily derail a season if there are more problems, not to mention these injuries could sideline these players for awhile.

Isn't anyone else at least curious about this post?  Pretty serious allegations and would assume one needs to be pretty careful about this kind of talk without facts.  BW.  You know all the inside scoop.  How about a comment.

[tomt4525]

Heard some very interesting and disappointing news about the Whitewater squad last night.  Apparently some of the players haven't been getting along and even erupted into a fistfight amongst a couple players.  I wasn't given specific players but from what I heard, it sounded like Lindfors and Evans were the two involved.  Also was told that a broken hand and someone getting knocked out cold were what transpired from the altercation.  This could easily derail a season if there are more problems, not to mention these injuries could sideline these players for awhile.

As with everything else, there are a couple of ways to look at this.

Certainly, a team doesn't want division within the program. You don't want to have guys who truly don't like each other and you don't want to have guys who are out to hurt another guy.

I don't know what the source was (and I'm not necessarily questioning the validity, especially something like this where there's a potential for either medical care or campus security to get in the mix... i.e. an "unable to keep news from spreading" type of event) but sometimes things get blown out of proportion in translation too.


Now, all of that said, a little scuff or a scrum amongst teammates isn't always a bad thing. It could be a sign that the guys are really getting after it on the floor in practice. That's a good thing, but again, this is just practice and I think it is possible to take the level of competition too high sometimes.

Hopefully for UWW's sake, it was just a heat of the moment type incident and everyone will eventually be ok. The Warhawks are coming off a tremendous season last year and they have high hopes again this year and a lot of things athletically have been going right in southern Wisconsin (... despite the fact that the Warhawks football team won't even make the NCAA Playoffs this year, they're still going to have a winning season. Not quite up to recent standards by any account, but it's not like they went 0-10).



Concerning Whitewater... Voice posted last night on his blog.

I wouldn't have mentioned this if I thought there was anyways the story was fabricated.  It came from someone directly within the program, it could possibly be exaggerated a little, but nonetheless there is at the very least some bad blood in the Whitewater program.

I can understand some altercations in the heat of practice, that will happen everywhere.  From what I was told, this isn't what happened, it happened in the locker room after they were exchanging verbal abuse to each other.  I was also told that these two aren't the only players that are having problems with other players.  If you ask me, this is definitely something to look at in terms of Whitewater's season.

[tomt4525]

Heard some very interesting and disappointing news about the Whitewater squad last night.  Apparently some of the players haven't been getting along and even erupted into a fistfight amongst a couple players.  I wasn't given specific players but from what I heard, it sounded like Lindfors and Evans were the two involved.  Also was told that a broken hand and someone getting knocked out cold were what transpired from the altercation.  This could easily derail a season if there are more problems, not to mention these injuries could sideline these players for awhile.

Isn't anyone else at least curious about this post?  Pretty serious allegations and would assume one needs to be pretty careful about this kind of talk without facts.  BW.  You know all the inside scoop.  How about a comment.

Like I said in my earlier post, this came from someone directly in the program, I don't see why they would have any reason to make this story up, possibly exaggerated a little but not made up.  That is enough facts for me to bring it to the board to create some early season conversation.

[Greek Tragedy]

I dont see BW commenting on something of this nature.

[John Gleich]

Heard some very interesting and disappointing news about the Whitewater squad last night.  Apparently some of the players haven't been getting along and even erupted into a fistfight amongst a couple players.  I wasn't given specific players but from what I heard, it sounded like Lindfors and Evans were the two involved.  Also was told that a broken hand and someone getting knocked out cold were what transpired from the altercation.  This could easily derail a season if there are more problems, not to mention these injuries could sideline these players for awhile.

As with everything else, there are a couple of ways to look at this.

Certainly, a team doesn't want division within the program. You don't want to have guys who truly don't like each other and you don't want to have guys who are out to hurt another guy.

I don't know what the source was (and I'm not necessarily questioning the validity, especially something like this where there's a potential for either medical care or campus security to get in the mix... i.e. an "unable to keep news from spreading" type of event) but sometimes things get blown out of proportion in translation too.


Now, all of that said, a little scuff or a scrum amongst teammates isn't always a bad thing. It could be a sign that the guys are really getting after it on the floor in practice. That's a good thing, but again, this is just practice and I think it is possible to take the level of competition too high sometimes.

Hopefully for UWW's sake, it was just a heat of the moment type incident and everyone will eventually be ok. The Warhawks are coming off a tremendous season last year and they have high hopes again this year and a lot of things athletically have been going right in southern Wisconsin (... despite the fact that the Warhawks football team won't even make the NCAA Playoffs this year, they're still going to have a winning season. Not quite up to recent standards by any account, but it's not like they went 0-10).



Concerning Whitewater... Voice posted last night on his blog.

I wouldn't have mentioned this if I thought there was anyways the story was fabricated.  It came from someone directly within the program, it could possibly be exaggerated a little, but nonetheless there is at the very least some bad blood in the Whitewater program.

I can understand some altercations in the heat of practice, that will happen everywhere.  From what I was told, this isn't what happened, it happened in the locker room after they were exchanging verbal abuse to each other.  I was also told that these two aren't the only players that are having problems with other players.  If you ask me, this is definitely something to look at in terms of Whitewater's season.

Just to be clear, I wasn't trying to say that I thought the story was fabricated, but depending on who the source was (and coming from WW certainly makes it credible), details could have been exaggerated.

The followup made it clearer. It seems there may be something rotten in Denmark.


Still talking about Whitewater, they had a scrimmage with Concordia Mequon the other day.

This was from the NathCon board:

CUW played even with UW-W winning the 40 minutes 75-73 (the scores were cleared at half)

I know that UWW is hosting Elmhurst tonight for their last dust up before the season (is it wrong to call a scrimmage a dust up after what has transpired recently?)