MBB: Wisconsin Intercollegiate Athletic Conference

[Greek Tragedy]

You gotta love first posts like that one...

The length of that post would make Gregory Sager proud.

[Greek Tragedy]

Do tournament games at Stevens Point and Whitewater usually sell out?

We are headed up nort to Vislas County next weekend and may go to a game at one or the other.

Whitewater shouldn't be any problem. I'm surprised there was no line when BanditUWSP showed up, though he does smell, so I guess that's understandable.    Usual Point games draw pretty well, so maybe there will be a lot of walkup sales after work on Friday. Concordia could bring a few since thats only 2 hours away from Mequon. If Point and IWU advance, I think that game on Saturday would be a sellout. IWU travels well.

[wcbsas]

Well, it's that time of year again: All-WIAC selections. I have always felt that All-WIAC selections should be made based on stats and how a player performed. I don't a team's record should factor into it. You can't have role players being selected as All-WIAC selections. Now, I didn't pay a whole lot of attention to the WIAC this season, but by looking at the numbers that players put up, the league really struggled. Can someone explain to me how Joe Ritchay was a first-teamer? He shot 40.5 percent, horrendous three-point and free throw shooting numbers and below-average rebounding numbers. Do people just love players from Point? I see the Pointers had five players selected on 1st and HM teams. Jordan Lutz was nothing more than a three-point shooter. Of his 200 shots, 120 were threes. Grant it, he shot 47.5 percent, but didn't do anything else. Evans and Young were the two players who were no-brainers. Egan is another one that shocks me. He is a beneficiary of Young and Evans. While Olson helped Oshkosh to the WIAC championship game, his shooting numbers across the board were less than average and he really struggled at times. I'm OK with Manning I suppose. Stocki, meh 50-50. Seems like he really under-performed. Grant Erickson is alright, but didn't do anything special. I'll give him credit, his numbers improved and he only played half a minute more per game this season. But that was also because River Falls was better. Christenson, I'm fine with. He had some nice games. Tyson Kailen was a volume three-point shooter who did nothing else. Don't agree with that selection. And as for Alex Richard and Austin Ryf, I suppose they deserve it. I don't mean to be the Grinch, but I feel like the WIAC just sucked all around this season. Superior, Stout and La Crosse were dreadful. EC, Oshkosh and Platteville were ho-hum. RF was most improved. Point wasn't even that good. They really struggled at times. They could have easily lost four or five conference games. And everyone knew WW would be great. I just feel every team in the league lacked one really good player. WW was the only team with two "stars". I don't know, just my opinion. Any thoughts?

I disagree with the underlined section.  Basketball is about winning games.  What a player does to win games is as important of an evaluator as anything.

Sometimes you can have a great player on a bad team but other times you can have good players on good teams who sacrifice stats for the sake of the "W".

That's why almost invariably you the coach of the conference winner gets COY ... its about winning.

Is Ritchay an all-conference guy ... maybe, maybe not but if we're just relying on stats ... then print off the top 10 in points, rebounds and assists and pick from there!  UWSP and UWW should have more all-conference players because their teams win, isn't that the ultimate goal?

[stag44]

Just finished up putting together PER metrics and published the top 100 players in the nation this year. I'll narrow this to include just the NCAA eligible players later this week.

It does seem that the figures skew slightly higher than I would have expected but that could be attributed to the larger variance between players in D3 vs the NBA.

http://stag44.blogspot.com/2015/03/ncaa-division-3-per-rankings-march-2.html

[GBMAN]

Just finished up putting together PER metrics and published the top 100 players in the nation this year. I'll narrow this to include just the NCAA eligible players later this week.

It does seem that the figures skew slightly higher than I would have expected but that could be attributed to the larger variance between players in D3 vs the NBA.

http://stag44.blogspot.com/2015/03/ncaa-division-3-per-rankings-march-2.html

Q Young at 42?

[John Gleich]

Well, it's that time of year again: All-WIAC selections. I have always felt that All-WIAC selections should be made based on stats and how a player performed. I don't a team's record should factor into it. You can't have role players being selected as All-WIAC selections. Now, I didn't pay a whole lot of attention to the WIAC this season, but by looking at the numbers that players put up, the league really struggled. Can someone explain to me how Joe Ritchay was a first-teamer? He shot 40.5 percent, horrendous three-point and free throw shooting numbers and below-average rebounding numbers. Do people just love players from Point? I see the Pointers had five players selected on 1st and HM teams. Jordan Lutz was nothing more than a three-point shooter. Of his 200 shots, 120 were threes. Grant it, he shot 47.5 percent, but didn't do anything else. Evans and Young were the two players who were no-brainers. Egan is another one that shocks me. He is a beneficiary of Young and Evans. While Olson helped Oshkosh to the WIAC championship game, his shooting numbers across the board were less than average and he really struggled at times. I'm OK with Manning I suppose. Stocki, meh 50-50. Seems like he really under-performed. Grant Erickson is alright, but didn't do anything special. I'll give him credit, his numbers improved and he only played half a minute more per game this season. But that was also because River Falls was better. Christenson, I'm fine with. He had some nice games. Tyson Kailen was a volume three-point shooter who did nothing else. Don't agree with that selection. And as for Alex Richard and Austin Ryf, I suppose they deserve it. I don't mean to be the Grinch, but I feel like the WIAC just sucked all around this season. Superior, Stout and La Crosse were dreadful. EC, Oshkosh and Platteville were ho-hum. RF was most improved. Point wasn't even that good. They really struggled at times. They could have easily lost four or five conference games. And everyone knew WW would be great. I just feel every team in the league lacked one really good player. WW was the only team with two "stars". I don't know, just my opinion. Any thoughts?

Hmm... By your logic... the all-conference team should have been:

Evans
Young
Ryf
Richard
Manning
Christenson

Well, the WIAC first team has 12 guys, with 9 honorable mention. You've given us 6. Where are your other 15?

It appears that you aren't willing to give the players their due... this is for the 12 top players, and then the 9 next-highest.


To answer some of your questions... there are things in the game of basketball that matter in addition to simply the points that are scored.

For example:

All-Defensive Team
Steve Egan, Whitewater, Senior, Forward, Omro, Wis.
Jordan Lutz, Stevens Point, Senior, Forward, Amherst, Wis.
Lewis Mau, Eau Claire, Senior, Guard, Colfax, Wis.
Austin Ryf, Stevens Point, Senior, Guard, Winneconne, Wis.
Quardell Young, Whitewater, Senior, Guard, Kenosha, Wis. (Bradford)

Steve Egan, and Jordan Lutz, who you didn't deem worthy of all-conference accolades, were selected on the All-Defensive team.

Speaking of defense... UWSP led the nation in scoring defense at 55.6 PPG. Further, they were second at just 8.2 turnovers per game. These statistics aren't just happenstance... they require skill.


It's easy to poke holes... but there's more to it than that. There are (likely) two All-Americans in the WIAC this year - Young and Evans.  The league was down this year, at least in terms of non-conference record that the conference was able to achieve, compared to years in the past. But even so, these are annual awards. It goes to the best players in the conference, as voted on by the coaches and SID's.

[bleedpurple]

Whitewater handled the Titans today.  Glad to see the Phi Betta Kappa guys from Whitewater could get out of the library to shout rude things at the Oshkosh fans.  Interesting that with a 17 point lead Pat Miller works the refs to get a Technical foul, one of three the Warhawks had today.  Might want to have a sportsmanship refresher if they host in NCAA tournament there. 

Congrates to WW.  Your program just continues to amaze me.  I will be hoping for another national championship.   But I have to wonder after watching Pat from close range for all these years, why people are so afraid to call it like it is and say that his behavior on the sidelines is way over the top.  After the game, during interviews, during the week, and in any situation that I have spoken with him he has been professional, friendly, and classy.  On the sideline during the game is a whole different story.  The number of stories are endless.  Now I expect to be ripped for suggesting anything remotely negative about WW, but go for it.  I am old and have thick skin.  Besides, I don't live for karma points.

HOW DARE YOU!!!! You're a former coach by your own admission. THere are plenty of detractors. How dare you criticize a coach. Un-believable!

Touche'. Big time touche'.  Although I don't know the facts at all regarding the Stout coach and your earlier comments, your strong comments about Stout's coach were far more harsh than we are used to on this board. As such, I didn't really like those comments. But this is one of those message board moments that I like to acknowledge. Your eyes must have gotten pretty big when you saw this post of Stoutguy. Well done.

"Touche'.  Big time touche".  Really, BleedPurple?  I wasn't going to respond and I promise to let this thing go right now, but I need to point out that I am offended that you are putting my reaction to Pat's sideline antics on the same level with Hoops and Golf's attack of Ed Andrist.  When I reacted to Pat's sideline behavior I also used the words, "classy, friendly, and professional" when discussing my opinion of Pat Miller.  As a matter of fact, if you ever talk to Pat why don't you bring this topic up and feel free to mention me in your discussion.  I have the utmost resect for Pat Miller and I think he knows that.  I just don't like his sideline antics and I stand by that.  End of discussion.  Good luck to both SP and WW in the tournament.  Both first class programs that the entire WIAC can be proud of.

C'mon Stoutguy. In your post you say "Now I expect to be ripped for suggesting anything remotely negative about WW, but go for it.  I am old and have thick skin." And then you get offended by my post? Wow.

No need to be offended Stoutguy. I will clarify my post, but I have to say that your post regarding Coach Miller disappoints me  Here's why there's no need to be offended: I neither stated nor implied that H&G's post was "on the same level" as what you stated about Coach Miller. In stating touche' and talking about a "message board moment", I was simply saying he came up with a good line in response to your criticism of Coach Miller, given your earlier post,which included:

"I am going to make one more comment regarding your posts and then stop.   In our coaching profession, (yes, i was a coach once too,) it seems like we have  enough detractors: frustrated players, parents, community members and all kinds who for one reason or another, think that they could do your job better than you are doing it.  You are a coach and it seems to me that if you really cared about your profession, you would not continue to spew out this negative banter about another coach.  I have tremendous respect for the profession.  You obviously do not, so rip away. "

No, your comments were not "on the same level" as Hoops and Golf. If you re-read my post you will note that I commented on the harshness of what he posted but didn't even mentioned what you posted.  So if you are offended by my putting them on the same level, then no need to be.

However, your criticism of Coach Miller is disappointing in a couple of respects:

First of all, by your previous "respect for the profession" comments you actually get it. So even though you get it, you still decided to post what you did about someone you say you respect.  When you say he is "way over the top" it reads like he goes through all kind of histrionics on the sidelines and that simply isn't true.  Does he sometimes carry a running dialogue with the refs? Sometimes he does.  Trust me, with some of the calls he has had to watch, he has restrained himself really well.  Agree completely with HawkView about the level of the refereeing as compared to the level of play in the WIAC.  In the past two years our bench (I think that's how the stats show a Head Coach technical in the box score) has 7 technicals and our opponent's bench has 7 technicals. 


Secondly, if you know and respect Coach Miller, why not ask or talk to him about the way he coaches instead of putting it on a public message board.  And not only posting it, but adding "why people are afraid to call it like it is". I will talk to Pat. I will bring you up to him. I'm sure he appreciates your respect. I doubt he will care much for how you show it.

[Gregory Sager]

You gotta love first posts like that one...

The length of that post would make Gregory Sager proud.

He shows promise. But in order to make it to the next level he's going to have to learn how to break down posts:

The length of that post

... rather than simply taking the easy way out by typing huge blocks of text. Then he'll need to learn how to use that to respond to source texts point by point:

would make Gregory Sager proud.

... in order to really make the grade in yours truly's book.

Oh, and pictures help, too ...



If he learns to do all of that, he'll earn one of these from me:



(I'll start him off with a Costanza gif, just so that he doesn't get a swelled head. )

[John Gleich]

Do tournament games at Stevens Point and Whitewater usually sell out?

We are headed up nort to Vislas County next weekend and may go to a game at one or the other.

Whitewater shouldn't be any problem. I'm surprised there was no line when BanditUWSP showed up, though he does smell, so I guess that's understandable.    Usual Point games draw pretty well, so maybe there will be a lot of walkup sales after work on Friday. Concordia could bring a few since thats only 2 hours away from Mequon. If Point and IWU advance, I think that game on Saturday would be a sellout. IWU travels well.

Here are the attendance figures for Point when hosting in the NCAA's:

3/7/14 vs. Marian - Rd 1 - 2280
3/8/14 vs. Central - Rd 2 - 2038
3/14/14 vs. Emory - Sweet 16 - 2512

3/2/13 vs. Northwestern - Rd 1 - 2102
3/3/13 vs. Calvin - Rd 2 - 2270

3/5/10 vs. Carleton - Rd 1 - 2052
3/6/10 vs. St. Norbert - Rd 2 - 2101
3/12/10 vs. UT Dallas - Sweet 16 - 2375
3/13/10 vs. IWU - Elite 8 - 2276

3/3/07 vs. St. John's - Rd 2 - 2504
3/9/07 vs. Wash U - Sweet 16 - 2527

3/5/05 vs. Lawrence - Rd 2 - 2815
3/11/05 vs. Puget Sound - Sweet 16 - 2746
3/12/05 vs. Trinity (Tx) - Elite 8 - 2720

3/4/04 vs. Benedictine - Rd 1 - 1750

3/8/03 vs. Gustavus Adolphus - Rd 2 - 2052


The only game that Quandt was really at capacity was the Lawrence game in 2005.  Others that year may have had unused tickets that weren't turned back in, so they were likely unavailable.

Ever since then, though, they've reserved seating and though there were always tickets available at game time, I think that the reserved seating kept people away.



Also, if you decide to go to either Whitewater or Stevens Point, wear purple! You'll get along with the hometown crowds just fine! 

[John Gleich]

Whitewater stays at #2 but wrestles a #1 vote away from Randy Mac. Point slides to #8.

Interestingly, St. Thomas and Babson jump over St. Norbert. SNC was #3, Point #4, Babson #5 and UST #5 last week, now here's the top 5:

#1 Randy Mac (13)
#2 Whitewater (11)
#3 UST
#4 Babson
#5 Norbert
#6 Augustana
#7 Albertus Magnus (1)
#8 Stevens Point

http://d3hoops.com/top25/index

[Pat Coleman]

Whitewater stays at #2 but wrestles a #1 vote away from Randy Mac. Point slides to #8.

Interestingly, St. Thomas and Babson jump over St. Norbert. SNC was #3, Point #4, Babson #5 and UST #5 last week, now here's the top 5:

#1 Randy Mac (13)
#2 Whitewater (11)
#3 UST
#4 Babson
#5 Norbert
#6 Augustana
#7 Albertus Magnus (1)
#8 Stevens Point

http://d3hoops.com/top25/index

It's worth noting in that 3-4-5 cluster that the three teams are just five points apart.

[WUPHF]

Thanks guys for the advice on tickets and apparel.

[basketballman14]

Well, it's that time of year again: All-WIAC selections. I have always felt that All-WIAC selections should be made based on stats and how a player performed. I don't a team's record should factor into it. You can't have role players being selected as All-WIAC selections. Now, I didn't pay a whole lot of attention to the WIAC this season, but by looking at the numbers that players put up, the league really struggled. Can someone explain to me how Joe Ritchay was a first-teamer? He shot 40.5 percent, horrendous three-point and free throw shooting numbers and below-average rebounding numbers. Do people just love players from Point? I see the Pointers had five players selected on 1st and HM teams. Jordan Lutz was nothing more than a three-point shooter. Of his 200 shots, 120 were threes. Grant it, he shot 47.5 percent, but didn't do anything else. Evans and Young were the two players who were no-brainers. Egan is another one that shocks me. He is a beneficiary of Young and Evans. While Olson helped Oshkosh to the WIAC championship game, his shooting numbers across the board were less than average and he really struggled at times. I'm OK with Manning I suppose. Stocki, meh 50-50. Seems like he really under-performed. Grant Erickson is alright, but didn't do anything special. I'll give him credit, his numbers improved and he only played half a minute more per game this season. But that was also because River Falls was better. Christenson, I'm fine with. He had some nice games. Tyson Kailen was a volume three-point shooter who did nothing else. Don't agree with that selection. And as for Alex Richard and Austin Ryf, I suppose they deserve it. I don't mean to be the Grinch, but I feel like the WIAC just sucked all around this season. Superior, Stout and La Crosse were dreadful. EC, Oshkosh and Platteville were ho-hum. RF was most improved. Point wasn't even that good. They really struggled at times. They could have easily lost four or five conference games. And everyone knew WW would be great. I just feel every team in the league lacked one really good player. WW was the only team with two "stars". I don't know, just my opinion. Any thoughts?

Hmm... By your logic... the all-conference team should have been:

Evans
Young
Ryf
Richard
Manning
Christenson

Well, the WIAC first team has 12 guys, with 9 honorable mention. You've given us 6. Where are your other 15?

It appears that you aren't willing to give the players their due... this is for the 12 top players, and then the 9 next-highest.


To answer some of your questions... there are things in the game of basketball that matter in addition to simply the points that are scored.

For example:

All-Defensive Team
Steve Egan, Whitewater, Senior, Forward, Omro, Wis.
Jordan Lutz, Stevens Point, Senior, Forward, Amherst, Wis.
Lewis Mau, Eau Claire, Senior, Guard, Colfax, Wis.
Austin Ryf, Stevens Point, Senior, Guard, Winneconne, Wis.
Quardell Young, Whitewater, Senior, Guard, Kenosha, Wis. (Bradford)

Steve Egan, and Jordan Lutz, who you didn't deem worthy of all-conference accolades, were selected on the All-Defensive team.

Speaking of defense... UWSP led the nation in scoring defense at 55.6 PPG. Further, they were second at just 8.2 turnovers per game. These statistics aren't just happenstance... they require skill.


It's easy to poke holes... but there's more to it than that. There are (likely) two All-Americans in the WIAC this year - Young and Evans.  The league was down this year, at least in terms of non-conference record that the conference was able to achieve, compared to years in the past. But even so, these are annual awards. It goes to the best players in the conference, as voted on by the coaches and SID's.

First off, I should have said that I believe there should be two teams: first and second, comprising of five players each. Then, for HM, it should be five guys. It takes at least five guys to win a basketball game. Most teams play eight-10 players. I don't agree with the better teams having three players each because, normally, the third player is a wild-card, meaning you never know what you're going to get from that guy every game. Consistency needs to be looked at in these instances. If a team has one very good player but his team wins four conference games compared to a role player on a team that wins 10 conference games, does that role player deserve it over that very good player? In my opinion, the answer is "no" 100 out of 100 times. Ritchay is a role player. Lutz is a role player. Could those two players be the best player on Superior or La Crosse, or even EC? I highly doubt it. Point's system is the San Antonio Spurs system. Players' weaknesses are hardly exposed because the coaches know how to use them. It's just opinion. But I think the WIAC needs to re-configure the All-WIAC selections and break it into teams, and trim down the number.

[Mr. Ypsi]

Do tournament games at Stevens Point and Whitewater usually sell out?

We are headed up nort to Vislas County next weekend and may go to a game at one or the other.

Whitewater shouldn't be any problem. I'm surprised there was no line when BanditUWSP showed up, though he does smell, so I guess that's understandable.    Usual Point games draw pretty well, so maybe there will be a lot of walkup sales after work on Friday. Concordia could bring a few since thats only 2 hours away from Mequon. If Point and IWU advance, I think that game on Saturday would be a sellout. IWU travels well.

Here are the attendance figures for Point when hosting in the NCAA's:

3/7/14 vs. Marian - Rd 1 - 2280
3/8/14 vs. Central - Rd 2 - 2038
3/14/14 vs. Emory - Sweet 16 - 2512

3/2/13 vs. Northwestern - Rd 1 - 2102
3/3/13 vs. Calvin - Rd 2 - 2270

3/5/10 vs. Carleton - Rd 1 - 2052
3/6/10 vs. St. Norbert - Rd 2 - 2101
3/12/10 vs. UT Dallas - Sweet 16 - 2375
3/13/10 vs. IWU - Elite 8 - 2276

3/3/07 vs. St. John's - Rd 2 - 2504
3/9/07 vs. Wash U - Sweet 16 - 2527

3/5/05 vs. Lawrence - Rd 2 - 2815
3/11/05 vs. Puget Sound - Sweet 16 - 2746
3/12/05 vs. Trinity (Tx) - Elite 8 - 2720

3/4/04 vs. Benedictine - Rd 1 - 1750

3/8/03 vs. Gustavus Adolphus - Rd 2 - 2052


The only game that Quandt was really at capacity was the Lawrence game in 2005.  Others that year may have had unused tickets that weren't turned back in, so they were likely unavailable.

Ever since then, though, they've reserved seating and though there were always tickets available at game time, I think that the reserved seating kept people away.



Also, if you decide to go to either Whitewater or Stevens Point, wear purple! You'll get along with the hometown crowds just fine! 

Alas, I can't make it to Point this weekend.  But if I did, I would wear GREEN, thank you very much!

In 2012, I made it to Holland.  I was treated very well despite wearing green, and despite the fact we broke their hearts with a double-OT win over #1 ranked Hope.  One of their posters even bought me a beer at the Holland Brewing Company after the game - under the circumstances, that was VERY classy of him!   (I bought him the next round - I figured he needed it more than I did!)

[John Gleich]

Whitewater stays at #2 but wrestles a #1 vote away from Randy Mac. Point slides to #8.

Interestingly, St. Thomas and Babson jump over St. Norbert. SNC was #3, Point #4, Babson #5 and UST #5 last week, now here's the top 5:

#1 Randy Mac (13)
#2 Whitewater (11)
#3 UST
#4 Babson
#5 Norbert
#6 Augustana
#7 Albertus Magnus (1)
#8 Stevens Point

http://d3hoops.com/top25/index

It's worth noting in that 3-4-5 cluster that the three teams are just five points apart.

You're right.... I didn't see that at first. But SNC still dropped from 540 to 522... almost an entire position, and they didn't lose. I just found it interesting that their stock dropped (at least in comparison to UST and Babson).

It's another discussion altogether if they should have risen as high as they did.... but I think they'll have an opportunity to let their play do their talking!