MBB: Wisconsin Intercollegiate Athletic Conference

[Dave 'd-mac' McHugh]

Interestingly, many in the NJAC have commented that quality in the league has taken a step back, arguably, because of the emergence of Division II in the region. They say competing for the same kids now has become harder and turns into a loss more times than not. The NJAC now has a lot more transfers than in the past (though, it has always been part of their make-up for obvious reasons being the type of state schools that they are and in their location) and I think their struggles with D2 have been apparent. That being said, the growth of DIII I think has played a major role as well. More schools for the same number (per se) of athletes.

[Greek Tragedy]

Without having past rosters to back things up, its difficult to know exactly how many more Wisconsin kids are leaving to go play elsewhere.  But, Wisconsin kids on rosters from just the schools mentioned here.........

SW Minnesota St   --3
St. Cloud St.         --2
Minnesota-Duluth  --5
Bemidji State         --4
Winona State         --4
Minn. State-Mankato--2
Concordia-St. Paul  --0
No. Michigan          --4
Michigan Tech        --6
Hillsdale                 --1
Lindenwood          --6

North Dakota State   --6
North Dakota            --0
South Dakota State  --0
South Dakota           --1
Neb. Omaha              --0

+1 k

I thought about doing this but I'm not retired.

[tomt4525]

Without having past rosters to back things up, its difficult to know exactly how many more Wisconsin kids are leaving to go play elsewhere.  But, Wisconsin kids on rosters from just the schools mentioned here.........

SW Minnesota St   --3
St. Cloud St.         --2
Minnesota-Duluth  --5
Bemidji State         --4
Winona State         --4
Minn. State-Mankato--2
Concordia-St. Paul  --0
No. Michigan          --4
Michigan Tech        --6
Hillsdale                 --1
Lindenwood          --6

North Dakota State   --6
North Dakota            --0
South Dakota State  --0
South Dakota           --1
Neb. Omaha              --0

I know Concordia St Paul has Max Keefe coming from Germantown in this year's class....Bemidji State alone has 5 players from Wisconsin signed, Duluth has a few...Winona State has at least 1...Davis Larson from Sheboygan North is heading to Hillsdale...Isaac Appleby out of Eau Claire Memorial is off to Michigan Tech.

[wcbsas]

Without having past rosters to back things up, its difficult to know exactly how many more Wisconsin kids are leaving to go play elsewhere.  But, Wisconsin kids on rosters from just the schools mentioned here.........

SW Minnesota St   --3
St. Cloud St.         --2
Minnesota-Duluth  --5
Bemidji State         --4
Winona State         --4
Minn. State-Mankato--2
Concordia-St. Paul  --0
No. Michigan          --4
Michigan Tech        --6
Hillsdale                 --1
Lindenwood          --6

North Dakota State   --6
North Dakota            --0
South Dakota State  --0
South Dakota           --1
Neb. Omaha              --0

2016 High School Seniors going to Division 2 basketball programs:

Davis Larson Sheboygan North 6'5" G Hillsdale (DII)
Lucas Wendt Shoreland Lutheran 6'6" F Bemidji State (DII)
Max Keefe Germantown 6'6" WF Concordia - St. Paul (DII)
Brandon Myer Superior 6'6" WF Minnesota-Duluth (DII)
Jai'Vionne Green Wauwatosa East 6'4" WG Bemidji State (DII)
Logan Rohrscheib Eau Claire Regis 6'2" WG Minnesota-Duluth (DII)
Peyton Dibble Cameron 6'6" G/F Bemidji State (DII)
Isaac Appleby Eau Claire Memorial 6'3" PG Michigan Tech (DII)
Logan Bader Unity 6'6" F Bemidji State (DII)
Kaj Days Racine Park 6'7" PF Illinois Springfield (DII)
Harrison Cleary Oak Creek 6'2" G Minnesota-Crookston (DII)
Max Bawden Altoona 6'3" WG Minnesota-Duluth (DII)
Brant Schick Washburn 6'6" F Minnesota-Duluth (DII)
Zach Baumgartner Kewaunee 6'8" F Bemidji State (DII)

[tomt4525]

Without having past rosters to back things up, its difficult to know exactly how many more Wisconsin kids are leaving to go play elsewhere.  But, Wisconsin kids on rosters from just the schools mentioned here.........

SW Minnesota St   --3
St. Cloud St.         --2
Minnesota-Duluth  --5
Bemidji State         --4
Winona State         --4
Minn. State-Mankato--2
Concordia-St. Paul  --0
No. Michigan          --4
Michigan Tech        --6
Hillsdale                 --1
Lindenwood          --6

North Dakota State   --6
North Dakota            --0
South Dakota State  --0
South Dakota           --1
Neb. Omaha              --0

2016 High School Seniors going to Division 2 basketball programs:

Davis Larson Sheboygan North 6'5" G Hillsdale (DII)
Lucas Wendt Shoreland Lutheran 6'6" F Bemidji State (DII)
Max Keefe Germantown 6'6" WF Concordia - St. Paul (DII)
Brandon Myer Superior 6'6" WF Minnesota-Duluth (DII)
Jai'Vionne Green Wauwatosa East 6'4" WG Bemidji State (DII)
Logan Rohrscheib Eau Claire Regis 6'2" WG Minnesota-Duluth (DII)
Peyton Dibble Cameron 6'6" G/F Bemidji State (DII)
Isaac Appleby Eau Claire Memorial 6'3" PG Michigan Tech (DII)
Logan Bader Unity 6'6" F Bemidji State (DII)
Kaj Days Racine Park 6'7" PF Illinois Springfield (DII)
Harrison Cleary Oak Creek 6'2" G Minnesota-Crookston (DII)
Max Bawden Altoona 6'3" WG Minnesota-Duluth (DII)
Brant Schick Washburn 6'6" F Minnesota-Duluth (DII)
Zach Baumgartner Kewaunee 6'8" F Bemidji State (DII)

Spencer Treder Oconomowoc 6'10" C Winona State (DII)

[AppletonRocks]

I brought up Whitewater's transfer/recruiting strategy early in the year and I was surprised I didn't get more backlash/response. Apparently no one thinks it's a big deal. Maybe everyone else does it just as much, but Whitewater's program probably stands out because they're so successfully at it and thus successful as a program.

There's a perception on the east coast that the successful WIAC schools are basically D2 programs because of transfers and the lack of Division II options in Wisconsin. I don't know if that's fair or even accurate, and it's definitely not fair or accurate across all sports at all schools. But I've heard more than once, "Yeah, the WIAC schools win a lot but that's because they are basically D2 programs."

For the record, I don't have a problem with it at all. Schools should try to recruit and retain whatever students are in their strategic interest, and that extends to athletics. Lots of schools have different institutional advantages based on their geography, their ability to give financial aid, their tuition amounts, their facilities, etc. As long as it's not an athletic scholarship, it's still within the rules of Division III.

Furthermore, in this day and age, transfers are becoming more common in general. Students and families can save money by going to a smaller school like a community college or junior college if they know their credits will transfer and then finish at the higher school for the bigger, maybe more meaningful diploma. I am seeing far more transfering in college now than ten years ago. Also, east coast schools tend to ignore the fact there is plenty of transfering going on there as well. The ones I hear "complain" about it the most are either blind (or deaf) to the fact it is happening in their own conferences and backyards or come from institutions where that is looked down upon, despite the fact other institutions of their same "level" do it all of the time. Whatever helps a school either retain students or pay the bills while offering a good education is fine ... and as Gordon said, it is within the rules of the division.

Thanks Dave, I never thought of that....maybe we will see more Whitewater players transferring to Oshkosh to finish their schooling so that they get a more elite degree for employment purposes.  This board serves as sort of an alternative to Freakanomics for me. 

[wcbsas]

Without having past rosters to back things up, its difficult to know exactly how many more Wisconsin kids are leaving to go play elsewhere.  But, Wisconsin kids on rosters from just the schools mentioned here.........

SW Minnesota St   --3
St. Cloud St.         --2
Minnesota-Duluth  --5
Bemidji State         --4
Winona State         --4
Minn. State-Mankato--2
Concordia-St. Paul  --0
No. Michigan          --4
Michigan Tech        --6
Hillsdale                 --1
Lindenwood          --6

North Dakota State   --6
North Dakota            --0
South Dakota State  --0
South Dakota           --1
Neb. Omaha              --0

2016 High School Seniors going to Division 2 basketball programs:

Davis Larson Sheboygan North 6'5" G Hillsdale (DII)
Lucas Wendt Shoreland Lutheran 6'6" F Bemidji State (DII)
Max Keefe Germantown 6'6" WF Concordia - St. Paul (DII)
Brandon Myer Superior 6'6" WF Minnesota-Duluth (DII)
Jai'Vionne Green Wauwatosa East 6'4" WG Bemidji State (DII)
Logan Rohrscheib Eau Claire Regis 6'2" WG Minnesota-Duluth (DII)
Peyton Dibble Cameron 6'6" G/F Bemidji State (DII)
Isaac Appleby Eau Claire Memorial 6'3" PG Michigan Tech (DII)
Logan Bader Unity 6'6" F Bemidji State (DII)
Kaj Days Racine Park 6'7" PF Illinois Springfield (DII)
Harrison Cleary Oak Creek 6'2" G Minnesota-Crookston (DII)
Max Bawden Altoona 6'3" WG Minnesota-Duluth (DII)
Brant Schick Washburn 6'6" F Minnesota-Duluth (DII)
Zach Baumgartner Kewaunee 6'8" F Bemidji State (DII)

Spencer Treder Oconomowoc 6'10" C Winona State (DII)

I believe he is going to Winona as a walk-on ... correct?

[tomt4525]

Without having past rosters to back things up, its difficult to know exactly how many more Wisconsin kids are leaving to go play elsewhere.  But, Wisconsin kids on rosters from just the schools mentioned here.........

SW Minnesota St   --3
St. Cloud St.         --2
Minnesota-Duluth  --5
Bemidji State         --4
Winona State         --4
Minn. State-Mankato--2
Concordia-St. Paul  --0
No. Michigan          --4
Michigan Tech        --6
Hillsdale                 --1
Lindenwood          --6

North Dakota State   --6
North Dakota            --0
South Dakota State  --0
South Dakota           --1
Neb. Omaha              --0

2016 High School Seniors going to Division 2 basketball programs:

Davis Larson Sheboygan North 6'5" G Hillsdale (DII)
Lucas Wendt Shoreland Lutheran 6'6" F Bemidji State (DII)
Max Keefe Germantown 6'6" WF Concordia - St. Paul (DII)
Brandon Myer Superior 6'6" WF Minnesota-Duluth (DII)
Jai'Vionne Green Wauwatosa East 6'4" WG Bemidji State (DII)
Logan Rohrscheib Eau Claire Regis 6'2" WG Minnesota-Duluth (DII)
Peyton Dibble Cameron 6'6" G/F Bemidji State (DII)
Isaac Appleby Eau Claire Memorial 6'3" PG Michigan Tech (DII)
Logan Bader Unity 6'6" F Bemidji State (DII)
Kaj Days Racine Park 6'7" PF Illinois Springfield (DII)
Harrison Cleary Oak Creek 6'2" G Minnesota-Crookston (DII)
Max Bawden Altoona 6'3" WG Minnesota-Duluth (DII)
Brant Schick Washburn 6'6" F Minnesota-Duluth (DII)
Zach Baumgartner Kewaunee 6'8" F Bemidji State (DII)

Spencer Treder Oconomowoc 6'10" C Winona State (DII)

I believe he is going to Winona as a walk-on ... correct?

I'm pretty sure that it's a scholarship.

[chmarx]

I brought up Whitewater's transfer/recruiting strategy early in the year and I was surprised I didn't get more backlash/response. Apparently no one thinks it's a big deal. Maybe everyone else does it just as much, but Whitewater's program probably stands out because they're so successfully at it and thus successful as a program.

There's a perception on the east coast that the successful WIAC schools are basically D2 programs because of transfers and the lack of Division II options in Wisconsin. I don't know if that's fair or even accurate, and it's definitely not fair or accurate across all sports at all schools. But I've heard more than once, "Yeah, the WIAC schools win a lot but that's because they are basically D2 programs."

For the record, I don't have a problem with it at all. Schools should try to recruit and retain whatever students are in their strategic interest, and that extends to athletics. Lots of schools have different institutional advantages based on their geography, their ability to give financial aid, their tuition amounts, their facilities, etc. As long as it's not an athletic scholarship, it's still within the rules of Division III.

Furthermore, in this day and age, transfers are becoming more common in general. Students and families can save money by going to a smaller school like a community college or junior college if they know their credits will transfer and then finish at the higher school for the bigger, maybe more meaningful diploma. I am seeing far more transfering in college now than ten years ago. Also, east coast schools tend to ignore the fact there is plenty of transfering going on there as well. The ones I hear "complain" about it the most are either blind (or deaf) to the fact it is happening in their own conferences and backyards or come from institutions where that is looked down upon, despite the fact other institutions of their same "level" do it all of the time. Whatever helps a school either retain students or pay the bills while offering a good education is fine ... and as Gordon said, it is within the rules of the division.

Thanks Dave, I never thought of that....maybe we will see more Whitewater players transferring to Oshkosh to finish their schooling so that they get a more elite degree for employment purposes.  This board serves as sort of an alternative to Freakanomics for me. 

Or to La Crosse, which has the highest academic standards in the conference.   

[tomt4525]

Hill-Murray (MN) Senior Chris Moore has committed to play basketball at UW-Platteville.  I don't rememeber Platteville getting many Minnesota kids.

[sac]

With the Minnesota D2 schools concentrating on Wisconsin kids, its no wonder so many Minnesota kids have to settle for Wisconsin D3 schools.

[palum]

Hill-Murray (MN) Senior Chris Moore has committed to play basketball at UW-Platteville.  I don't rememeber Platteville getting many Minnesota kids.

With tuition reciprocity with Minnesota a Minnesota kid can attend a UW school almost at the same cost as a U of M school but your right P-ville  doesn't get that many athlete's from MN, they seem to concentrate on eastern Iowa and northern Illinois with their Tri-State Initiative that allows them to offer reduced  out of state tuition to students from those areas.

[cubs]

UWSP assistant coach Kent Dernbach named one of five finalist's for the Head Coaching position at Loras College in Iowa.

http://duhawks.com/news/2016/3/31/loras-announces-head-mens-basketball-coach-finalists.aspx

[gordonmann]

I saw the same thing and my response was, "Why would you announce the five finalists?"

How does it serve any of the parties involved to do that publicly?

For the school that does it, there's a momentary ego boost ("Look how many good candidates want to work for us!"). And in some really high profile cases, like head coach at Kentucky, you probably need to do it to manage the process lest the media cyclone carry it off into weird directions.  But was anyone really clamoring to know who the finalists for the Loras job were, outside of the individuals who applied and wanted to know the status of their individual application? If you want to show how desirable your job is, couldn't you do that by issuing something more general like, "we had X applicants including Y from current head coaches Z from people with experience in the IIAC...on NCAA tournament teams...at winning programs...etc."

If I'm a candidate for one of these jobs, I HATE this type of announcement. It's a signal to my current employer that I'm looking to move on. It's a signal to potential recruits that they should probably think about going elsewhere before sending that acceptance letter in. It's a signal to recruits who've already committed that they are playing for someone who really wanted to be somewhere else. It's a signal to my current players that I'm not really committed which is problematic unless I'm ultra honest with them about potentially moving on to another job throughout the recruiting process.

And, again, unless it's a really high profile job, how much does it help to be able to say that you were publicly recognized as a finalist for job you didn't get? Does it really improve your chances at getting a job at the next opening that becomes available?

[Mr. Ypsi]

I saw the same thing and my response was, "Why would you announce the five finalists?"

How does it serve any of the parties involved to do that publicly?

For the school that does it, there's a momentary ego boost ("Look how many good candidates want to work for us!"). And in some really high profile cases, like head coach at Kentucky, you probably need to do it to manage the process lest the media cyclone carry it off into weird directions.  But was anyone really clamoring to know who the finalists for the Loras job were, outside of the individuals who applied and wanted to know the status of their individual application? If you want to show how desirable your job is, couldn't you do that by issuing something more general like, "we had X applicants including Y from current head coaches Z from people with experience in the IIAC...on NCAA tournament teams...at winning programs...etc."

If I'm a candidate for one of these jobs, I HATE this type of announcement. It's a signal to my current employer that I'm looking to move on. It's a signal to potential recruits that they should probably think about going elsewhere before sending that acceptance letter in. It's a signal to recruits who've already committed that they are playing for someone who really wanted to be somewhere else. It's a signal to my current players that I'm not really committed which is problematic unless I'm ultra honest with them about potentially moving on to another job throughout the recruiting process.

And, again, unless it's a really high profile job, how much does it help to be able to say that you were publicly recognized as a finalist for job you didn't get? Does it really improve your chances at getting a job at the next opening that becomes available?

It's probably worse than that - for any place that (rightly or wrongly) thinks they are 'better' than the place you didn't get hired, it may be the 'kiss of death': 'Well if THEY didn't want him, we sure as hell don't want him!'