MBB: Wisconsin Intercollegiate Athletic Conference

[Black and Red]

Actually Edgewood has it's own gym-it's a collegiate floor-and yes it's called the Edgedome and it can be a difficult place to play. Madison Edgewood- the high school-has it's own gym and does not play on a college floor.

[True Basketball Fan]

Here's a something to think about.  How many (percentage-wise) D3 schools are conducting weight training/conditioning sessions, even though it is illegal?  My guess is about 20 percent.  And of the 20 percent, 90 percent of those teams are probably in the top 50 or so.

[laxeagles1]

Here's a something to think about.  How many (percentage-wise) D3 schools are conducting weight training/conditioning sessions, even though it is illegal?  My guess is about 20 percent.  And of the 20 percent, 90 percent of those teams are probably in the top 50 or so.

Let's think about this.  I would say most schools conduct these activities.  I know this applies at Div 1 levels as well.  Most teams run practices well beyond their allotted weekly times(i think it is 20 hours.........I know through a first hand source that this happens at a certain div 1 school in the state).........But with everyone or most everyone doing it many of these acts will not be 'prosecuted' because so many are participating in these 'illegal activities'

The only schools that get busted for these are academic or some other from of scandals(FSU, WIsconsin).........something you most certainly don't see at the Div 3 level........my guess is it happens nearly everywhere in Div 3, much like div 1........

[John Gleich]

D3 coaches are restricted to conditioning/weight lifting until the season officially begins.  There have been talks of adjusting the rule, however, D3 coaches cannot have basketball related sessions with their players

True Basketball Fan,

Read the above... it's not illegal for weight training/conditioning sessions to be conducted.  That is what the teams are restricted TO, not restricted FROM.

[wiacfan]

During the pre-season, they are allowed 8 hours per week for weightlifting and conditioning.  These sessions cannot be conducted by a member of the basketball coaching staff. 

Once the season officially starts, they are allowed 20 hours per week for practices, games, conditioning, weights, and meetings.  There must also be one day off where no team activities are conducted, although team travel is allowed (ie. returning from a road trip).

[Greek Tragedy]

One of the best atmospheres last year was Point's away game to Stout.  I can only imagine what it's like when Stout and Eau Claire get together. 

The women's game was crazy and the men's game continued that trend as the 2nd half of that double header.

I became more impressed with Point's passive home crowds in the 2nd half of the season, obviously for good reason, especially in the post season.  The women's games are more raucus than the men's though, IMO.

[titan2000]

Does anyone know how the officials are selected and what quality process they use to select them?  Is it done across multiple conferences or does each have their own standard?

I recall this one guy who looked sorta like Jack Palance who did some Midwest conference games (not very well) with another decent ref.  the decent ref also did some WIAC games without old Jack.

Also, what do these guys get paid for taking all the **** from the coaches and the fans?

[kluch]

I know I'm a little late but I wanted to put an opinion in on the best/worst places to play.

IMO, the best mens game I have ever seen was at Kolf.  The 02-03 championship game with the game winning shot coming from Timmy D. It was really the only time I can remember feeling the place shake, which is a feat in itself.
I also love Zorn.  I've been to four OSH-EC womens games there, and most people know that oshy and ec have been one of the most heated rivalries over the past 8 years or so. Zorn gets insane and it is just impossible to hear when those bleachers are getting pounded on.

Overall, Kolf is a excellent "facility". The atmosphere for bball blows, it's just too big for a school that doesn't draw very much student support, although it has gotten better for mens games. If I had it my way the women would still be playing in Albee. I know it's unsafe and out of date, but "the cracker box" had the Zorn effect in the glory days.
I do like Whitewater's facility even though they stuck WRST up in the rafters all the time AND they made us pay to activate a phone line to do PbP.
The only bball facility I have never seen is at River Falls. They never could accomodate for WRST.

[True Basketball Fan]

WIAC fan and Point Special,

I guess I need to rephrase that previous statement.  I actually meant weight training/conditioning being conducted by the coach in the preseason.  That would make my assumption of 20 percent of D3 schools doing this make a little more sense.   I know that in some instances a basketball coach can have the title "strength coach" at a school, thus sliding around the obstacle of not having direct contact.

[titan2000]

Direct contact would be salacious and potentially illegal. 

[John Gleich]

TBF,

I fully agree that weight training/conditioning conducted by a coach in the preseason AS a basketball practice is, as it should be, illegal.

However...

If a school offers an 8 week conditioning CLASS, sanctioned by the university, where credit is given, open to the entire student population, then it is no longer illegal. 

Might players benefit from this, in a basketball sense?  I should hope so!  That's the purpose... but, they'd be getting in shape... and THAT is the purpose of any type of weight lifting or conditioning class, sanctioned by the university.  And that is completely legal.

This is legal because it's just a conditioning/weight lifting class and it has nothing to do with basketball.  The whole "direct contact" thing only applies to X's and O's, and or ball in hand type of "contact."  As far as the NCAA is concerned, these players are taking a conditioning class sanctioned by the U.  Only if the coaches cross the line and actually instruct are they breaking the rules.

[titan2000]

Sounds like Point Special is a lawyer.

[True Basketball Fan]

Good point, Point.

However.....

I never really said that I believe it should be illegal.  I think coaches should be allowed to conduct pre-season weight training/conditioning, if time allows.  Every school's coach carries different responsibilities, teaching classes, administrative duties, coaching another sport, or nothing else at all.  If time allows a member of their staff to be present during these times, I feel that it should be encouraged.  I know they'll never change this rule, and that's why programs will continue to dance around this rule, at least the good ones will.

[John Gleich]

The thing is, they're NOT dancing around the rule, like you said.  They're doing what they're allowed to do.

There's a fine line between following the rules, and being able to have a coach regulate, supervise, and basically run conditioning and weight lifting CLASS (with players doing any true basketball work on their own, completely free of any coaching of any kind) and having a coach regulate, supervise, and run conditioning as a PRESEASON WORKOUT...

That (class for credit or not), at least it seems to me, is the fine line.  Call it dancing around the rule if you'd like, but the kids are working hard, and they get graded and they get credit for their work, fully under the letter of the law.  Any team that does it differently, at least it would appear to me, would be breaking the rule, as the rules are stated (if they are as we have been speaking about them, like WIACfan wrote). 

Does anyone know how the officials are selected and what quality process they use to select them? Is it done across multiple conferences or does each have their own standard?

I've seen referees working what equate, I guess, to reffing camps, parallelling summer basketball camps.  Refs get practice, reffing the camp games, and I believe that these camps will certify them to be an official (though I've got no idea what level... there's a clear difference between middle school girls and college men).  As far as I know, conferences have lists of refs who are certified for their level (that's why you tend to see many of the same refs for various WIAC games).

There are definately some refs who are better than others.  But, honestly, it's hard to really quantify what is a "good" ref (conversely, it's pretty easy to tell a "bad" ref... isn't consistent with his calls, misses obvious calls, calls what shouldn't).  I guess a "good" ref would be one that is consistent across the board, and calls a game that is consistent with his fellow officials (there's nothing more frustrating than watching a game where one ref is making ALL the calls, and the other two just seem to stand their.... Are they missing these calls, or did they not think that it really WAS a foul?)

In my mind, if a ref is fairly consistent, tends to let the kids play (let's 'em be physical, but to a point, in the post), doesn't decide the game (by making a questionable or unnecessary play that he could just as easily let go as call) and doesn't try to be the center of attention, then he's a decent ref.  I'm not sure if I've ever seen a "good" ref... but...

[True Basketball Fan]

Camps and clinics help officials, but it's more of a chance for them to brown-nose with other officials and especially the league supervisors, who are the ones that designate officials for assignment.  It's a good ol' boy network.  Isn't that mostly true with just about any job or organization, unfortunately?