MBB: Wisconsin Intercollegiate Athletic Conference

[The Roop]

While binge drinking may be a constant, it does not explain each case. Foul play, a fraternity ritual gone horribly wrong or an accident could also be at fault in each case. Somebody needs to get to the source, that much is self evident.

[chmarx]

First, LaxEagles is almost always wrong, no exception here.

Second, Roop, those statistics are wrong, at least for La Crosse.  Where did you see them?

[Gregory Sager]

Dion, the kid who died before Homon had a blood alcohol content of .4, which is five times the legal limit. Homon's .32 was 4 times the legal limit.

Holy cow. You can die from a .4 BAC, or collapse into an alcoholic coma (which is not the same thing as "passing out"), and it's extremely difficult to maintain consciousness at that level. That's beyond mere drunkenness; that's a life-threatening case of alcohol poisoning. And .32 BAC isn't that far behind -- it, too, is a blood-alcohol threshold in which the issue typically becomes less a matter of impaired judgment and unstable walking and more a matter of physical endangerment from having one's vital organs overwhelmed by a toxic substance.

I'm surprised that Dion, at least, was able to remain on his feet long enough to stumble into the river. Even a large adult male is likely to be on the ground and unconscious if his BAC is at the .4 level.

When I was taking the class for my Wilderness First Responder certification (it's around halfway between a CPR cert and an EMT cert for those who have no idea what that is, as I didn't before I took the course!), I was told that people whose hearts have stopped due to drowning have been resuscitated hours after they initially drowned (and therefore not to stop CPR until be body becomes stiff after hours upon hours of trying). This is because their hearts should theoretically be healthy, since it was an outside force that made it stop, and could restart on its own later. The healthy heart thing would obviously especially be true of a college basketball player. If his friends that he went out drinking with, or his friends that noticed he wasn't back yet had done something sooner, the fact is that desipite everything wrong that had happened up to this point, he might have had a small chance of survival if he was found within a few hours of drowning.

That's called a "cold water drowning" (I learned this in CPR class), and it is indeed possible for an individual trapped underwater to stay alive long beyond the usual six minutes or so when anoxia typically causes irreversible brain damage and then brain death. It's because of the so-called mammalian diving reflex (which makes it possible for the body to go without oxygen for a longer period underwater than on dry land) and the hypothermic tendency of cold water to slow down the body's metabolism. But I think that "hours" might be exaggerated. The longest instances I could find of a person being revived with full brain capacity after nearly experiencing a cold-water drowning are 70 minutes in a child and 38 minutes in an 18-year-old man. Still, April's point is right on the money -- never stop resuscitating a drowning victim until a medical professional tells you to stop. The rule I was taught is, "no drowning victim should be pronounced dead until he or she is warm and dead."

Good post, April. There's drunkenness and then there's life-threatening stupor. How could no one have noticed how seriously impaired these people were? How come nobody helped them?

the issue of the serial killer would not be an issue if the city of La Crosse would follow through PAST the autopsy reports.  I have talked to a DETECTIVE relative of mine and there are untraceable killer drugs that could be put into someone's body, as well as traceable ones. 

Yeah, right. Like someone needed to put an "untraceable killer drug" into the bloodstream of someone with a .4 BAC or a .32 BAC. Give me a break. We're not talking about the death of Rasputin here.

[BigPoppa]

A river runs through the UW-Oshkosh and the Lawrence University campus--the Fox River.  I can't recall any of this at these institutions.  I am not an alarmist but those stats seem too hard to believe--unless LaX students drink to oblivion more than others, which I find hard to believe.

May he RIP.

Lawrence had a student drown in the Fox River a few years ago. I think he was a soccer player. I now these things happen, but at some point we need to accept responsibility for ourselves and our own actions. Part of growing up is taking the responsibility and knowing that you have control of you own actions.

[laxeagles1]

First, LaxEagles is almost always wrong, no exception here.

Second, Roop, those statistics are wrong, at least for La Crosse.  Where did you see them?

do you have a close relative who investigates deaths?  i am assuming the answer is no.........chances are it isn't a serial killer but what chief other than kondracki wouldn't go out of his way to put the public's doubt to rest..........why doesn't he follow through with toxicology reports and announce it to the public?  an autopsy is one thing but follow through and put people's fears to rest.......

is it most likely a serial killer? no........have the police department gone out of there way to to eliminate the notion of foul play in any of these cases? no

to claim I am wrong, just as the police department has to everyone that has doubts like myself.  prove it.........hey lax police we all know it was drowning.  was he held down?  what other drugs were in his system, if any other than alcohol?  do this and some of us will be happy.....10 more deaths later and they might take this approach

[titan2000]

A river runs through the UW-Oshkosh and the Lawrence University campus--the Fox River.  I can't recall any of this at these institutions.  I am not an alarmist but those stats seem too hard to believe--unless LaX students drink to oblivion more than others, which I find hard to believe.

May he RIP.

Lawrence had a student drown in the Fox River a few years ago. I think he was a soccer player. I now these things happen, but at some point we need to accept responsibility for ourselves and our own actions. Part of growing up is taking the responsibility and knowing that you have control of you own actions.

BP:

He drowned in the Lawrence pool in an accident during pre-season training.  It was a sad day. No alcohol involved.

T2K

[laxeagles1]

Yeah, right. Like someone needed to put an "untraceable killer drug" into the bloodstream of someone with a .4 BAC or a .32 BAC. Give me a break. We're not talking about the death of Rasputin here.

and other deaths at the river(since we are up to 8 in the last 9 years and NO ONE in the nation compares to that) had bac's of .18, .21..............i doubt they just up and went into the river

amazing that even court tv says something isn't right

http://www.crimelibrary.com/serial_killers/unsolved/la_crosse_wisconsin/10.html

the pages to start are at the bottom........interesting read

this paragraph at the end of page 3 sums up my views in a nutshell

"As a result, there is as of yet no hard evidence to suggest that a serial killer is at work in La Crosse, Wisconsin. But it is also equally true that police there have not yet done the work to determine conclusively that the people of La Crosse and the students at the University are wrong in believing that there is."

[BigPoppa]

A river runs through the UW-Oshkosh and the Lawrence University campus--the Fox River.  I can't recall any of this at these institutions.  I am not an alarmist but those stats seem too hard to believe--unless LaX students drink to oblivion more than others, which I find hard to believe.

May he RIP.

Lawrence had a student drown in the Fox River a few years ago. I think he was a soccer player. I now these things happen, but at some point we need to accept responsibility for ourselves and our own actions. Part of growing up is taking the responsibility and knowing that you have control of you own actions.

BP:

He drowned in the Lawrence pool in an accident during pre-season training.  It was a sad day. No alcohol involved.

T2K

Titan2K... thanks for clarifying for me.

[Gregory Sager]

and other deaths at the river(since we are up to 8 in the last 9 years and NO ONE in the nation compares to that) had bac's of .18, .21..............i doubt they just up and went into the river

I don't doubt it at all. BACs of .18 or .21 constitute serious intoxication, as in "loss of judgment", "complete disorientation", and "pronounced disruption of motor skills". It's perfectly conceivable that anyone with a .18 or .21 BAC could topple over a railing or slide down a riverbank and fall into a river. It's a heck of a lot more conceivable than someone giving said intoxicated person an "untraceable killer drug". When your BAC is that high and there's a dangerous body of water nearby, the only "killer drug" in your bloodstream necessary to put you in a coffin is alcohol. And, as I said, the amazing thing about someone with a .32 BAC is that he was even capable of staying on his feet long enough to fall in -- and for the .4 BAC victim to stay conscious long enough to do so is something of a miracle, because .4 BAC is considered the median lethal dose in humans (IOW, half of all adults would die without immediate intervention with that much alcohol in the bloodstream).

Look up the meaning of the term "Occam's Razor", because it clearly applies here. The fewer assumptions an explanation makes, the more plausible it is. I know that conspiracy theorists don't usually think much of Occam's Razor, but those of us who maintain a tighter grip on reality do.

amazing that even court tv says something isn't right

Oooh! Court TV? Now there's a reputable source! And what do Entertainment Tonight and Unsolved Mysteries With Leonard Nimoy have to say about the LaCrosse drowning deaths?

[mythicalbird]

[

is it most likely a serial killer? no........have the police department gone out of there way to to eliminate the notion of foul play in any of these cases? no

]

With that argument we could argue that aliens abducted him and deposited him into the river.  The LAX police haven't ruled that out either!!  Do you get my point?  It is really easy to suspect something and theorize with the unknown.  Your basis for argument is weak and Court TV will find any sense of drama they can so they can sell ads.  Bottom line.

[The Roop]

Second, Roop, those statistics are wrong, at least for La Crosse.  Where did you see them?

That's what was on the radio at work (a Wausau station) and I heard it in passing so I may not be 100% correct. The point is that it's a more common occurrence than I had realized.

[Greek Tragedy]

Good post, April. There's drunkenness and then there's life-threatening stupor. How could no one have noticed how seriously impaired these people were? How come nobody helped them?

Sadly, some people think it's just funny seeing someone so impaired.  No one helps them because they assume their own friends will help them. 

and other deaths at the river(since we are up to 8 in the last 9 years and NO ONE in the nation compares to that) had bac's of .18, .21..............i doubt they just up and went into the river.

Last time I checked, when your drunk, your judgement is impaired and sometimes you lose your sense of direction.  It's not like they said to themselves that they'll go for a swim. 

A lot has been said from students that it doesn't make sense that these deaths happen at the river when the campus is the opposite direction AND you have to cross a bridge to get there.  Well, when you have BAC of [fill in the blank], I'm sure some of these students, even ones that have survived, wondered where they were when they "woke up" or someone found them.

Unfortunately, I have many friends who have drank enough where they wake up and wonder how they got there, woke up behind the wheel in a snowbank and didn't even remember how they got behind the wheel or other situations, so it doesn't surprise me if someone walks out of the bar and turns left towards the river instead of right back to campus.

[chmarx]

you do NOT have to cross a bridge to get to the river from downtown.

We have not had eight deaths in nine years.  At least not that fit this pattern. 

Eagles, many of us remember your posts from last season about the UWL basketball team. 

As far as the issue of the police/mayor not convincing the population of La Crosse that no foul play is involved, they HAVE  investigated each drowning carefully.  They found no evidence of foul play in any of them.  They have not made all of their information public, any more than they do in other cases.

Gregory Sager makes a good point about Occams Razor.  A valuable logic tool which weakens the strength of most conspiracy theories.

[laxeagles1]

 
Eagles, many of us remember your posts from last season about the UWL basketball team. 


Gregory Sager makes a good point about Occams Razor.  A valuable logic tool which weakens the strength of most conspiracy theories.

Sager essentially points out a theory against a theory.  A tie as far as I am concerned.  Logic behind OCcams Razor just as I have thought out the logic, as 'far out' as it maybe to my point

ON the Lax team, this is still a team with great chemistry that got as far as they could with the players being the player.  THere is only so far a great group of players can take you before the coach has to start 'helping' a little bit........Kloebl showed this a little last year, to be honest I was surprised.  Alot left to cover though for sure........Though I don't think he is the best coach for Lax I have to give him a little more credit than I have in the past, but not much more

[Greek Tragedy]

you do NOT have to cross a bridge to get to the river from downtown.

I thought I remembered reading in the Milwaukee Journal/Sentinel about needing to cross a bridge to get to the river.  Maybe the bridge crosses the river.  Sorry for the mis-information.