MBB: Wisconsin Intercollegiate Athletic Conference

[badgerwarhawk]

AndOne,

The WIAC schools do not recruit players from the general student body.  No signs go up in the dormitories or student union inviting them to try out for the team.  Any one on a WIAC basketball team is on it because they were recruited.  For the most part that is true of all our intercollegiate sports.  So the size of the general student body is irrelevant. 

If student body size is of such significance how do you explain Notre Dame competing against schools with 7-8 times the enrollment?  I know they give scholarships but so do the bigger schools. 

I don't think the money is as big an issue either because the many of your student athletes are paying reduced tutitions. 

The real advantage that the larger state schools have, imo, is facilities.  Generally speaking ours are better.

[titan2000]

BW:

I heard an Stevens Point guy tell me that they picked up a javelin thrower from the dorms and he was pretty good.  They recruited him at the commons and he placed at conference with 2 weeks practice. 

Rick Witt up there is pretty sharp.

T2K

[foul_language]

Any one on a WIAC basketball team is on it because they were recruited

Many are but many are not. WIAC has walk-ons, just like scholarship schools. They may not play as much--or they may play more--but I wouldn't say everyone on the team is recruited.

[John Gleich]

Give me a WIAC starter in the last 10 years who was a walk-on.  Assuming that each team only had 5 starters (a bad assumption), then take that number out of 450, and that would be the number of starters who walked on in the last 10 years.  The number will not be high.

The overwhelming majority of players who play any significant amount of minutes are recruited.

Since you're SO convinced that there are a lot of unrecruited players, f_l, name some who have made an impact.


**Now, I will fully admit that, to fill out the roster, WIAC teams do take walk-ons, but these are the types of players who are running up the score up 50, like BW and T2K were talking about earlier... 

Btw, I think, in a situation where the shot clock is shut off, with a lead of 10 or more, or if the defense is no longer defending/pressuring the ball, then the ball should be held, without a shot.  Granted, maybe I'm a bit old school... I think that a football team should kneel on the ball once the defense is out of timeouts and run the clock down rather than try to score, no matter WHO is playing, or where the ball is, even if it's in the redzone.  THAT is the classy move.  Running up the score is not.


And, T2K, athletes in "non-major" sports like track and field often do have walk-ons... but in the major sports like basketball (men and women's), volleyball, football, baseball/softball, the great majority, like I noted above, are recruited.

[laxeagles1]

Give me a WIAC starter in the last 10 years who was a walk-on.  Assuming that each team only had 5 starters (a bad assumption), then take that number out of 450, and that would be the number of starters who walked on in the last 10 years.  The number will not be high.

I am gonna have to help f_l on here and say the future WIAC player of the year wasn't recruited at all to play hoops here.  wasn't even looked at to play hoops at UWL......Joe Werner

[AndOne]

AndOne,

The WIAC schools do not recruit players from the general student body.  No signs go up in the dormitories or student union inviting them to try out for the team.  Any one on a WIAC basketball team is on it because they were recruited.  For the most part that is true of all our intercollegiate sports.  So the size of the general student body is irrelevant. 

If student body size is of such significance how do you explain Notre Dame competing against schools with 7-8 times the enrollment?  I know they give scholarships but so do the bigger schools. 

I don't think the money is as big an issue either because the many of your student athletes are paying reduced tutitions. 

The real advantage that the larger state schools have, imo, is facilities.  Generally speaking ours are better.

Badger---

I am going to have to disagree for 4 very logical reasons:

1. Size does matter  . Of course no signs go up, but the SIZE of the school
     makes it more recognizable among both the general population and
     possible recruits. It is this name recognition, based at least partly on size, that     
     can help make a school more attractive in the first place.

2. Notre Dame competes against bigger schools due to both its world class
     academic reputation and its athletic tradition.

3. Money is a HUGE issue. A state supported school is guaranteed a certain
     amount of income through the state tax system. Therefore, they know
     how much money they can apportion to all areas of disbursement. As such,
     they can afford to offer a recruit a BIGGER grant "package" than can a smaller
     private school who likely cannot set aside as much grant package $ due to
     the fact that without the guaranteed money a state school will receive, they
     have to reserve a greater percentage of their budget for things other than
     athletics. Additionally, tuition is lower at state schools in the first place!

4. The facilities are bigger, and thus generally better, at state schools AGAIN
     at least partially due to the SIZE of the student body. WIAC schools need
     larger facilities to accomodate their LARGER student bodies.

I trust that at least some of this will make sense to you. I am not trying to start
a fight here, just state the obvious. I happen to be a fan of the WIAC, and have
extended family members who are grads of Stout, Eau Claire, Point, Whitewater.

BTW--I am a new poster and recognized after reading your reply to my prev post
that I rec'd the first of what I am sure will be many negative Karmas. Just wondered if you gave it to me? If so I don't believe it was warranted. Take care. 

[badgerwarhawk]

We'll agree to disagree.  Welcome to the site.

BTW, the whole karma thing is stupid and I didn't give you any one way or the other. 

[AndOne]

We'll agree to disagree.  Welcome to the site.

BTW, the whole karma thing is stupid and I didn't give you any one way or the other. 

We CAN agree on the Karma thing----VERY stupid

[foul_language]

PS--You might want to turn it down a notch. The quote was ANY WIAC player was a recruit, not any starter. I am convinced there are plenty of players who are walk-ons, and I suspect there are walk on players who make an impact. Nonemachers were not recruited, I believe. I think they contacted the schools and Stout bit. In women's, I'm not so sure Kelsey Duoss was 'recruited'; she transferred from D1, but I don't know that she was recruited as much as she was looking for a school where she could have her major and play basketball. Did Stout send a letter at some point? Probably. She probably got lots of letters; is that the same as 'recruiting'? I tend to think of 'recruiting' as a little more active and long-term. Semantics.

[laxeagles1]

if karma matter titan 2k would have been gone a long time ago! 

[John Gleich]

LaXEagles,

True, Joe Werner was not recruited for basketball, but he WAS recruited for football.  There have been other cross-over athletes as well (notably with Point, Brett Hirsh and Brad Kalsow are former basketball players who are now playing football).  With situations like this, the player is still technically recruited to campus and part of the athletic community, and then "recruited" from the other team.  In other words, they're not coming from the student populous, so players like Werner don't really help the cause too much.

One player that actually DOES, however, is Kalonji Kadima.  He just fell into Jack Bennett's lap, showing up on campus (as a student) and coming to the program once he was already there (again, just as a student).  He and making an impact as a player who was not technically "invited" to come play.


That's really the difference, f_l.  It really IS getting into semantics when you talk about transfers.  When I was playing, I transferred from Michigan Tech, and I got in contact with the Point coaches.  I became another player who was contacted by the coaches prior to the season and with whom I spoke with on at the very least a semi-regular basis.  In essence, a transfer could be seen like a high school student sending a program their game tapes... if the program likes what they see, they will pursue the player.  In the case of a D-I or D-II player, before they can even speak with the other program, they need to have a release from their scholarship, but they can then pursue other playing opportunities.

The Nonemachers were not "walk-ons".  They were in contact with the Stout coaches before they showed up on campus and they were not part of the student populous when they made the team.

This is really where this discussion came from.  AndOne stated that the WIAC has an extra advantage because of the student population, but this simply isn't the case.  In the 4 years I was with the Point program, there were only 2-3 players, the entire time who were with the team who had not been recruited.

[Greek Tragedy]

Quick points, even though I'm kind of sick of this "WIAC has an advantage because they're bigger/public etc" argument.

Biggger isn't always better.  You should see Lakeland's new gym and weight room.  WOW.  Isn't it Hope that has a new gym (or is it Calvin?) and it's simply amazing...ask Chmarx or Brian Carroll, they went over there when La Crosse played in last year's "regional".  Oshkosh's Kolf is huge, but it's hardly better.

Smaller schools actually have a better chance of getting "walk on" students...more of a "cross over" athlete though, in my opinion.

Some prospective students like smaller, less recognizable private schools, rather than the big public schools where they may feel they are just a number.

[badgerwarhawk]

Nonmachers did initiate the recruiting process by contacting several schools themselves. WHITEWATER was among those contacted and agreeable to meeting with them as was Stout.  It was my understanding that Stout had a degree program they were interested in and we didn't have and that was important in their decisions. 

Just a technicality PS, but they had to have been part of the general student population when they "made" Stout's team or they would have been ineligible.  An athlete must be enrolled full time at the institution to be eligible.   I think you meant to say that they weren't a part of it when they contacted the school about playing.

Show me a coach in the WIAC who depends on walk ons and I'll show you one that isn't going to do much winning.   

[first_timer]

Has anyone seen RF scrimmage?  How do the new recruits look.  I know they usually scrimmage St. THomas...Any word on that?

[John Gleich]

Just a technicality PS, but they had to have been part of the general student population when they "made" Stout's team or they would have been ineligible.  An athlete must be enrolled full time at the institution to be eligible.   I think you meant to say that they weren't a part of it when they contacted the school about playing.

Yep, that's exactly what I meant.  They didn't approach the coaches once they were on campus, the contact was made prior to their arrival.