MBB: Wisconsin Intercollegiate Athletic Conference

[titan2000]

Nonmachers did initiate the recruiting process by contacting several schools themselves. WHITEWATER was among those contacted and agreeable to meeting with them as was Stout.  It was my understanding that Stout had a degree program they were interested in and we didn't have and that was important in their decisions. 

Just a technicality PS, but they had to have been part of the general student population when they "made" Stout's team or they would have been ineligible.  An athlete must be enrolled full time at the institution to be eligible.   I think you meant to say that they weren't a part of it when they contacted the school about playing.

Show me a coach in the WIAC who depends on walk ons and I'll show you one that isn't going to do much winning.   

Are the Nonemachers into fashion merchandising at Stout or just the hot chicks that are into that program?  Always the best overnite trip in the WIAC was to Stout as it was obvious the ladies in Menominee clearly were not satisfied by the men of UW-Stout.   

[AndOne]

LaXEagles,

This is really where this discussion came from.  AndOne stated that the WIAC has an extra advantage because of the student population, but this simply isn't the case.  In the 4 years I was with the Point program, there were only 2-3 players, the entire time who were with the team who had not been recruited.

Point-----

  I understand your point. However, this is exactly part of my reasoning. State schools can actively recruit MORE potential players as they usually have both bigger  budgets and bigger staffs than do smaller, private schools which do not receive huge chunks of state funds. Make sense?

[John Gleich]

&1,

To a point...  but if the public schools have such great budgets, then why do the private schools (Hope, Illinois Wesleyan, etc) have the greatest new arenas?  Yes, the WIAC gyms are better than the majority of, say, the old LMC (Now NAC) gyms, but...  At best, the WIAC gyms have been renovated, not completely replaced, like seems to be the trend with the private colleges due to

Seems to me that state budgets have been cut more than they have been added to.  I know at Point, we got a great deal of the money for our program from our summer camps and from youth tournaments throughout the year.  It's six of one, half dozen of the other.  Many private schools are able to build these great complexes due to generous gifts by donors (DeVos Center, Shirk Center).

[Mr. Ypsi]

PS,

Better change one of your examples - the Shirk dates to 1994!  My God, it is practically the Colisseum!

Could a rich alum please step forward to replace this relic?

[AndOne]

&1,

To a point...  but if the public schools have such great budgets, then why do the private schools (Hope, Illinois Wesleyan, etc) have the greatest new arenas?  Yes, the WIAC gyms are better than the majority of, say, the old LMC (Now NAC) gyms, but...  At best, the WIAC gyms have been renovated, not completely replaced, like seems to be the trend with the private colleges due to

Seems to me that state budgets have been cut more than they have been added to.  I know at Point, we got a great deal of the money for our program from our summer camps and from youth tournaments throughout the year.  It's six of one, half dozen of the other.  Many private schools are able to build these great complexes due to generous gifts by donors (DeVos Center, Shirk Center).

Very true. The alums control a great % of the athletic. Its just private schools can't always count on these funds. State schools. even in cases where money earmarked for athletics may have been reduced, at least know how much they will have coming in. Also, facilities weren't my main point, athletic grant money and recruiting was. However, there will always be some private schools with over the top facilities. Six of one, half dozen of the other. And with that, I think I've spoken my piece on this subject. Its good we can agree to disagree. 

[AndOne]

PS,

Better change one of your examples - the Shirk dates to 1994!  My God, it is practically the Colisseum!

Could a rich alum please step forward to replace this relic?

While not an alum, I think IWU should hit up Trost for a contribution given that he built up most of the reputation that allowed him to move up to D2 while at IWU.

[Gregory Sager]

&1,

To a point...  but if the public schools have such great budgets, then why do the private schools (Hope, Illinois Wesleyan, etc) have the greatest new arenas?  Yes, the WIAC gyms are better than the majority of, say, the old LMC (Now NAC) gyms, but...  At best, the WIAC gyms have been renovated, not completely replaced, like seems to be the trend with the private colleges due to

Seems to me that state budgets have been cut more than they have been added to.  I know at Point, we got a great deal of the money for our program from our summer camps and from youth tournaments throughout the year.  It's six of one, half dozen of the other.  Many private schools are able to build these great complexes due to generous gifts by donors (DeVos Center, Shirk Center).

You named a grand total of two private schools, PS. Two private schools with deep-pockets sugar daddies who built nice new gyms for them out of ... how many private schools in D3? 350 or so?

You can't extrapolate any sweeping judgments about D3 privates based only upon those two examples. I've been in about twenty or so D3 private-school gyms, and I can assure you that there are a lot more creaky relics out there (e.g., North Park's or North Central's), or closet-sized architectural afterthoughts in relatively new PE centers (e.g., Dominican's or Eureka's), than there are large, shiny, expensive new basketball palaces.

(I should note that I haven't seen DeVos yet, but the new private-school gym in D3 that I like the most is the more modestly-scaled Ratner Center -- capacity 1,658 -- at the U of Chicago.)

Oh, and don't kid yourself about D3 privates having large athletic budgets (for the most part). Bake sales, concession receipts, and raffles are pretty common for private-school programs that want to take out-of-state trips but don't have the budgeted means to do so. And those summer camps and youth tournaments of which you spoke? The NPU men's basketball program finances its annual snowbird trip to Florida or California by running a couple of Junior Vikings youth camps every year.

Go to www.petersons.com, or any other online resource that shows the endowments of various schools, and you'll see that there's a lot of relative poverty to go around among D3 private schools.

AndOne is a new poster who is obviously unaware that this subject has been beaten to death so many times in the WIAC room that the corpse can't even be identified by dental records anymore.  We're all heartily sick of it, I'm sure ... both those within the WIAC orbit and those outside of it. I just want to make sure that those of you who support the publics and have no experience with the privates aren't operating with any misconceptions about the other side. And, yeah, it's often the private-school supporters who have the misconceptions with regard to the publics. It's plainly obvious to me that each side is prone to speak from ignorance about the other, which is a big part of the whole publics vs. privates problem, IMHO.

[titan2000]

LU didn't need a fancy gym to go 25-1

T2K

[John Gleich]

GS,

  Sorry I couldn't come up with more than two... Ratner was also on my mind, as was Rose Hulman's new athletic facilities.  I fully acknowledge that these (like the Shirk) are not  necessarily BRAND new... but they are top notch facilities.  My point just was that the public schools did not necessarily have the best facilities available. 

I do know, however, that many private schools have old, antiquated facilities.  I haven't been to NPU, but I've been in NC's airplane hangar many times.  Schools like Marian (WI) have tiny, old gyms... but I thought I remember hearing talk about them building new facilities in the near future.

I'll stop beating the dead horse now. 

[titan2000]

Point has an OK facility except the visiting fans sit behind the band.  All 50 of them that get tickets.

  ;)Maybe the Vikings will return the favor on the 21st;  I suspect their band is a lot better with all the Music majors at the Conservancy at LU.

[EagleAlum]

I think you're overestimating a bit what kind of "resources" some of these big bad public schools have. Bigger budgets and bigger staffs I don't know about. There are schools in the league with zero for a recruiting budget; all recruiting money is donated/fundraised; and it ain't all that much. Bigger staffs? There are plenty of volunteer coaches in this league (both men's and women's); something all schools could theoretically have. I know I've seen this argument on here many times before but it feels like there is some discrediting of the hard work the coaches in this league give.

[John Gleich]

T2K, I was going to mention that Point won two national championships in a gym that can accomodate everyone except for LU students, but I thought that since it was a public university gym I wouldn't be believed, seeing as public school gyms are so much better than privates  

I'm looking forward to the game against LU too.  I've gotta work that night, won't be able to be there  

[titan2000]

PS:

LOL

T2K

[Greek Tragedy]

I made the Purple/Gold Game in Point last night.  Very enjoyable as they hosted a little cookout prior to the game.  You had to actually PAY $6 to see in intrasquad game, but it also got me two brats and two sodas, along with some chips!  Not a bad deal at all.  It was all-you-can-eat.

Point has some pretty good young talent.  Don't quote me on this, but I think this was the starting lineups:

Purple
Shawn Lee
Jon Krull
Drew Jackson
Jerome Wotachek
and I'm pretty sure it was Kevin Grusczynski

Freshmen Darren Simler, who is bigger than Khalif, but smaller than Shawn Lee, Matt Moses and Ross Rortvedt on the bench.

Gold
Khalif El-Amin
Steve Hicklin
Cory Krautkramer
Bryan Beamish
and I think Scott Hoelzel

Junior transfer Jeremy Krull, and freshmen Evan Sweeney and Cody Krueger

The purple dominated the game, played like an actual game.  I think they won by 20 or so.  Jon Krull was back to his usual.  Drew Jackson looked really good.  Lee looks fully healthy.  Matt Moses seems like a solid player and apparently, Ross Rortvedt has all the school records at Minocqua/Lakeland, not Pete Rortvedt.  Ross has a good outside stroke like his brother.

El-Amin played decent, while Steve Hicklin didn't look sharp.  Beamish shot a lot more and I like that.  The Gold team seemed out of sorts, while the purple team played very well together.  Hoelzel had some nice plays.

In street clothes were Chris Dorner, who is working on getting healed from a sports hernia.  From the sounds of Semling's voice, he didn't seem too optimistic he's going to play this year, IMO.  Pete Rortvedt was nursing an injury, but was mentioned about playing in the Michigan Tech scrimmage this weekend.  7'2" project Ryne Luecht and Greg Knox, I believe, are enrolled in MSTC this semester and should be eligible to play in January, though Semling said that decision hasn't been made yet.

Freshmen Darren Simler, Evan Sweeney and Cody Krueger didn't play much at all.

Once again, Point looks pretty small.  If Dorner can play, that'd be a big boost in the middle since he's a wide-bodied kind of guy coming in at 6'7" and 275.  Plenty of shooters, but less offensive minded guys like Krautkramer, Grusczynski and Wotachek are going to be needed to get the rebounds and do the dirty work, while the usual suspects like Krull, Hicklin, Pete Rortvedt, Drew Jackson and Beamish, for example, do the scoring.  Look for Krull and Hicklin to once again be in the league leaders in minutes.

I'm really looking forward to this year.  Big tests to begin the season!


T2K,

I came to Lawrence when the Vikings hosted #2 Oshkosh at the Alex, and there were plenty of seats available.  When is break for Lawrence?  The game is played the Tuesday before Thanksgiving.  I anticipate having no problems getting a seat, would I be correct?  I don't work at night, so I'll make the game, and even if I did have to work, I think I'd feel under the weather that day (hint, hint, PS!)

[Gregory Sager]

GS,

  Sorry I couldn't come up with more than two... Ratner was also on my mind, as was Rose Hulman's new athletic facilities.  I fully acknowledge that these (like the Shirk) are not  necessarily BRAND new... but they are top notch facilities.  My point just was that the public schools did not necessarily have the best facilities available. 

I do know, however, that many private schools have old, antiquated facilities.  I haven't been to NPU, but I've been in NC's airplane hangar many times.  Schools like Marian (WI) have tiny, old gyms... but I thought I remember hearing talk about them building new facilities in the near future.

My point was simply that the big, high-profile new gyms such as Hope's and Illinois Wesleyan's are the exception, not the rule. The antiquated facilities at NPU and North Central, or the more recently-built but smallish and cramped gyms such as Eureka's and Dominican's, are much more typical of D3 private-school gyms.

The Ratner Center is another case entirely, as it is the University of Chicago's gym. Like its UAA brethren, the U of C is richer than Croesus and isn't typical of D3 private schools (or D3 in general) in anything.

I'll stop beating the dead horse now. 

I hope you didn't think that I was expressing any frustration towards you. Heck, I'm not even frustrated with AndOne; he's a newcomer who isn't aware that this subject has been played out ad nauseam in the WIAC room.

Point has an OK facility except the visiting fans sit behind the band.  All 50 of them that get tickets.

I've known of people who carry long-term grudges, T2K, but yours rank right up there with Osama bin Laden's anger over the fact that King Ferdinand and Queen Isabella kicked the Moors out of Spain in 1492.  Are you ever going to give this UWSP seating thing a rest?