MBB: Wisconsin Intercollegiate Athletic Conference

[John Gleich]

right, i agree I never questioned his recruiting but he was a terrible coach the last few years..........

That's just wrong... Coach Koelbl was NOT a terrible coach.  It's like this... if you have a marathon to run, and you've got someone else's shoes, that are the wrong size, you're not going to run nearly as well as if you have your OWN shoes.  Coach K has recruited a nice "pair of shoes", and the program is really doing well this year because of it. 

hopefully he has it turned around........will take more for me to get on the Koelbl bandwagon......always have been on the LAX bandwagon, and never have been detrimental to the players, just the system........

Hmm, that's interesting... I find it very hard to be supportive of one part, but not another.  "A house divided against itself will fall."  Being against the system inherently will be detrimental to the players.

I was not a big fan but I drew the line after they lost to superior or river falls at the end of last year in a game they should have won.......It's a good thing he can recruit..........

Let's take a look at the end of LaX's late season last year, starting with the first game against Superior on January 18th.  They beat the Yellowjackets by 6.  Then, the next two games, they lost in overtime, including a game (against #1 ranked and defending National Champion UWSP) where they had a 5 point lead with a little over a minute to play in OT.  They then lost by two to Platteville.  So, we've got two overtime losses and a two point loss... two of the opponents were conference champions-to-be.  Then they beat Oshkosh, the #3 team in the conference.  Sure sounds like they're playing well to me, they're just playing more experienced teams.
  They end up losing to RF and WW, beating Stout, and losing to Superior.  But last year's team was young.  I think that the end-of-the-year falter had to do with lack of experience, from the PLAYER'S point of view, not a shortcoming in coaching, the "solution" that you readily provide.  Why do I say this?  Because La Crosse's three top scorers were underclassmen.  See below for more info about underclassmen and the WIAC...

I am not surprised at the success.......the players are awesome, i am very surprised the coach has finally put the talent together in the right way........sometimes it takes awhile for someone to 'get it' and unfortunately it took koelbl 3 years to figure out how to properly utilize his talent, better late than never!

First of all, this year BEGINS Coach K's third year.  He has completed two years at the helm.  Second, ...you just don't get it, do you?  The WIAC is the best conference in the country.  EVERY game is a tough game.  Freshmen and Sophomores take their licks, especially if they don't have upperclassmen to lead the way for them, which was the case at La Crosse the past three seasons.  It's absurd and just plain wrong for you to expect a brand new coach to do well right off the bat, without having his own players.  His players are now Juniors (plus a few transfers).  And, wow, they're winning!  It isn't like La Crosse has had a lot of success traditionally.  They've won 3 conference championships since 1950, none since 1965.  That's 40 years without a conference title.  I'm not sure where your expectations are coming from... in your humble opinion, the players are amazing and should be cutting down nets somewhere...

Trust me I am byfar not the only fan who feels this way, many others do I am just not afraid to say what I wanna say

  From things you've said in the past, you've talked all about how few people actually support La Crosse (this is probably due to the lack of tradition I mentioned above).  There really can't be THAT many dissenting voices, if there aren't voices to dissent.

always said i would give credit if, and a big if, he showed competency and turned it around and it looks like he might have finally turned the corner

Coach Koelbl has already shown himself to be competent in coaching.  You just seem to be so blind to that, with your outrageous expectations and undying devotion to the, as you say, "awesome players", that you haven't seen it.  Even in 01-02, when they started the year off 8-1, they lost their second game.

Basically, you've been very over-critical of a new coach.  This is the first year he has upperclassmen that he has recuited, and, heavens-to-Betsy, they're 5-0!  I don't know why you dislike Coach Koelbl so much, but you would do well to support the program (including him) this season and lay off the criticisms.  The team will have enough work competing in the toughest conference in the country.  Especially if you are friends of the players and care about them and the program, YOU don't need to be a dissenting voice that takes their focus away from their goals.

Theodore Roosevelt said it best:
"It is not the critic who counts: not the man who points out how the strong man stumbles or where the doer of deeds could have done better. The credit belongs to the man who is actually in the arena, whose face is marred by dust and sweat and blood, who strives valiantly, who errs and comes up short again and again, because there is no effort without error or shortcoming, but who knows the great enthusiasms, the great devotions, who spends himself for a worthy cause; who, at the best, knows, in the end, the triumph of high achievement, and who, at the worst, if he fails, at least he fails while daring greatly, so that his place shall never be with those cold and timid souls who knew neither victory nor defeat."

[Gregory Sager]

Outstanding speech, PS. I agree with it completely. And the Teddy Roosevelt quote certainly ended it with a flourish. Can I get you to come over to CCIW Chat and deliver it to Dennis Prikkel next fall? You can reprise it basically intact ... just change the school references from "LaCrosse" to "North Park". 

[Greek Tragedy]

I think I have something in my eye.   

[Greek Tragedy]

Any Whitewater faithful like to comment on their slow start so far, if that's what you call it?  I'm curious to hear what's up down in Warhawk land, too much attention to the football team? 

The Loras loss looked bad since Platteville spanked them by 20 or whatever.  I think Carroll College is picked 2nd in the MWC, and I know that always seems to be a good game each year.  Just curious on what your thoughts are.

As for the Pointers, they ran into a hot-shooting, tough defensive team in Lakeland.  They really came out to play and I think the result shouldn't be all that surprising since they played Point real tough last year.  I give Lakeland all the credit in the world for playing that well.  They really shot the ball well.  Defensively, they were solid, but to Point's credit, or discredit, they did miss a good number of wide open shots.  Sometimes you just have those nights when the ball doesn't go in. 

I'm definitely not as down as I was before after the Pointer loss and I think there are still good things to come for the dawgs.  After watching all three games thus far, I'm confident they'll do well in the WIAC.  Point has a lot of solid young players they will obviously only get better as the year progresses.  El Amin is a real nice guard and can play for and with Hicklin.  Rorvedt is going to put up some real nice numbers as he looks to be the heir apparent to Nick.  I think Bemish has played well overall as well and can handle the ball.  I think "little Grusczynski" has shown he deserves some more minutes and also earned himself the start vs. Lakeland.

Not to already look toward next year, but this team only loses one player that is playing significant minutes, senior Brian Bauer.  Rebuilding?  HA!  Just reloading. lol...

[Pioneerbacker]

Old School-

Could it be Whitewater was touted a little too high?  I'm sure they're all busy fending off the ridiculuous Linfield football fans and probably forgot basketball season started.  Hopefully we can all get some wins on them before they realize it.   

[badgerwarhawk]

If I knew, I'd tell Pat and he'd get things corrected.  Unfortunately I haven't actually seen a game, not that I would know if I had, only listened to the radio broadcasts.   Last night we didn't finish.   We got the ball inside and just couldn't make a shot.  Plus we're turning the ball over too much.  One consistancy in both losses has been our opponents three point shooting.  Last night a Carroll player burned us for five.  Loras made nine as a team.  Not having seen the games I not sure what that is about but given our historic defensive poweress I'd start looking there.

These were two bad losses, no way to sugarcoat it.  They were followed by two solid efforts.  It's a young team.  They have a lot of talent but they've been inconsistant.   We'll get better as the season progresses but the challenge now is to prepare for LaCrosse. 

[laxeagles1]

right, i agree I never questioned his recruiting but he was a terrible coach the last few years..........

That's just wrong... Coach Koelbl was NOT a terrible coach.  It's like this... if you have a marathon to run, and you've got someone else's shoes, that are the wrong size, you're not going to run nearly as well as if you have your OWN shoes.  Coach K has recruited a nice "pair of shoes", and the program is really doing well this year because of it. 

hopefully he has it turned around........will take more for me to get on the Koelbl bandwagon......always have been on the LAX bandwagon, and never have been detrimental to the players, just the system........

Hmm, that's interesting... I find it very hard to be supportive of one part, but not another.  "A house divided against itself will fall."  Being against the system inherently will be detrimental to the players.

I was not a big fan but I drew the line after they lost to superior or river falls at the end of last year in a game they should have won.......It's a good thing he can recruit..........

Let's take a look at the end of LaX's late season last year, starting with the first game against Superior on January 18th.  They beat the Yellowjackets by 6.  Then, the next two games, they lost in overtime, including a game (against #1 ranked and defending National Champion UWSP) where they had a 5 point lead with a little over a minute to play in OT.  They then lost by two to Platteville.  So, we've got two overtime losses and a two point loss... two of the opponents were conference champions-to-be.  Then they beat Oshkosh, the #3 team in the conference.  Sure sounds like they're playing well to me, they're just playing more experienced teams.
  They end up losing to RF and WW, beating Stout, and losing to Superior.  But last year's team was young.  I think that the end-of-the-year falter had to do with lack of experience, from the PLAYER'S point of view, not a shortcoming in coaching, the "solution" that you readily provide.  Why do I say this?  Because La Crosse's three top scorers were underclassmen.  See below for more info about underclassmen and the WIAC...

I am not surprised at the success.......the players are awesome, i am very surprised the coach has finally put the talent together in the right way........sometimes it takes awhile for someone to 'get it' and unfortunately it took koelbl 3 years to figure out how to properly utilize his talent, better late than never!

First of all, this year BEGINS Coach K's third year.  He has completed two years at the helm.  Second, ...you just don't get it, do you?  The WIAC is the best conference in the country.  EVERY game is a tough game.  Freshmen and Sophomores take their licks, especially if they don't have upperclassmen to lead the way for them, which was the case at La Crosse the past three seasons.  It's absurd and just plain wrong for you to expect a brand new coach to do well right off the bat, without having his own players.  His players are now Juniors (plus a few transfers).  And, wow, they're winning!  It isn't like La Crosse has had a lot of success traditionally.  They've won 3 conference championships since 1950, none since 1965.  That's 40 years without a conference title.  I'm not sure where your expectations are coming from... in your humble opinion, the players are amazing and should be cutting down nets somewhere...

Trust me I am byfar not the only fan who feels this way, many others do I am just not afraid to say what I wanna say

  From things you've said in the past, you've talked all about how few people actually support La Crosse (this is probably due to the lack of tradition I mentioned above).  There really can't be THAT many dissenting voices, if there aren't voices to dissent.

always said i would give credit if, and a big if, he showed competency and turned it around and it looks like he might have finally turned the corner

Coach Koelbl has already shown himself to be competent in coaching.  You just seem to be so blind to that, with your outrageous expectations and undying devotion to the, as you say, "awesome players", that you haven't seen it.  Even in 01-02, when they started the year off 8-1, they lost their second game.

Basically, you've been very over-critical of a new coach.  This is the first year he has upperclassmen that he has recuited, and, heavens-to-Betsy, they're 5-0!  I don't know why you dislike Coach Koelbl so much, but you would do well to support the program (including him) this season and lay off the criticisms.  The team will have enough work competing in the toughest conference in the country.  Especially if you are friends of the players and care about them and the program, YOU don't need to be a dissenting voice that takes their focus away from their goals.

Theodore Roosevelt said it best:
"It is not the critic who counts: not the man who points out how the strong man stumbles or where the doer of deeds could have done better. The credit belongs to the man who is actually in the arena, whose face is marred by dust and sweat and blood, who strives valiantly, who errs and comes up short again and again, because there is no effort without error or shortcoming, but who knows the great enthusiasms, the great devotions, who spends himself for a worthy cause; who, at the best, knows, in the end, the triumph of high achievement, and who, at the worst, if he fails, at least he fails while daring greatly, so that his place shall never be with those cold and timid souls who knew neither victory nor defeat."

fair enough i except it.............but the fact that he was not able to get the squad to the wiac tournament last year was where, if you look back, the majority of my grip was with.  that and having the team falter in latter stages of games that, as a fan being there and having coached teams before(high schoolers), it was clearly the coaches fault in flawed play design, time management, etc.  It was reeking of various factors that should be of least concern to the players, and should have been more thoroughly pointed out by the coaching staff, it wasn't..............I do give credit where credit is due and in the 2 games i have attended this year i see less and less of this, and at times i am impressed with the way things are ending up.................quick to jump the gun, of course i am.........regrets no........he is a better coach than i thought and it is nice to see success here in lax

what do i have against koelbl?  nothing really, except that one year i saw the talent he threw out on the floor and saw two of my buddies that got cut and knew what they could do that some of those players couldn't.  One of them moved onto another college and is a nice role player at cardinal stritch.......the other doesn't play and i think his other aspirations in life would have outweighed the thrill of d 3 basketball..........

[Evil Media]

Oshkosh should beat Point on Wednesday to mark the official shift in power in the conference. The Pointers just don't have the horses to stay with UW-O. Don't be surprised if La Crosse is standing when the dust clears at the end of the season, though. The Werner kid is a stud and they have four starters back ... not to mention three DI transfers. Give them time to mesh and the Eagles will be trouble.

[laxeagles1]

Oshkosh should beat Point on Wednesday to mark the official shift in power in the conference. The Pointers just don't have the horses to stay with UW-O. Don't be surprised if La Crosse is standing when the dust clears at the end of the season, though. The Werner kid is a stud and they have four starters back ... not to mention three DI transfers. Give them time to mesh and the Eagles will be trouble.

werner is so much fun to watch, and a nice guy to boot.  Tim owen is vastly improved.  Conigilario can finally be himself out there and he is really a treat to those that remember his play last year, it's light and days better........Fehrenbach hasn't been as redhot outside as he was last year but he is taking it to the hole more frequently, something he didn't do much last year, obviously his shooting will get back to square

joe bemis is a great bench player and if he were to start a game the squad would not miss a beat.  he is a true 6th man in every aspect.....brandon brown has been a pleasant surprise.......and it's gonna take time for homan and pelkopfer to adjust but they will help down the stretch

off question: how do karma points work?  where do you give them to people and such?  any help would be appreciated

[laxeagles1]

Any Whitewater faithful like to comment on their slow start so far, if that's what you call it?  I'm curious to hear what's up down in Warhawk land, too much attention to the football team? 

The Loras loss looked bad since Platteville spanked them by 20 or whatever.  I think Carroll College is picked 2nd in the MWC, and I know that always seems to be a good game each year.  Just curious on what your thoughts are.

As for the Pointers, they ran into a hot-shooting, tough defensive team in Lakeland.  They really came out to play and I think the result shouldn't be all that surprising since they played Point real tough last year.  I give Lakeland all the credit in the world for playing that well.  They really shot the ball well.  Defensively, they were solid, but to Point's credit, or discredit, they did miss a good number of wide open shots.  Sometimes you just have those nights when the ball doesn't go in. 

I'm definitely not as down as I was before after the Pointer loss and I think there are still good things to come for the dawgs.  After watching all three games thus far, I'm confident they'll do well in the WIAC.  Point has a lot of solid young players they will obviously only get better as the year progresses.  El Amin is a real nice guard and can play for and with Hicklin.  Rorvedt is going to put up some real nice numbers as he looks to be the heir apparent to Nick.  I think Bemish has played well overall as well and can handle the ball.  I think "little Grusczynski" has shown he deserves some more minutes and also earned himself the start vs. Lakeland.

Not to already look toward next year, but this team only loses one player that is playing significant minutes, senior Brian Bauer.  Rebuilding?  HA!  Just reloading. lol...

old school, also if shawn lee gets healthy he will contribute alot....he is gonna be a forgotten name until next year and will really add to that squad...........people will forget him but not me, that kid has game and talent wise i would put up his skills with anyone in the wiac, if he had any height he would have not played d 3 ball............as well would have never transferred out of central state of ohio had their not been some outstanding issues beyond basketball

[Greek Tragedy]

off question: how do karma points work?  where do you give them to people and such?  any help would be appreciated

If you really care...under the karma points, when you are signed in, there is applaud (+1) and smite (-1).  I think the only posters that care is Titan2000 and "The Roop"

[John Gleich]

It was clearly the coaches fault in flawed play design, time management, etc.  It was reeking of various factors that should be of least concern to the players, and should have been more thoroughly pointed out by the coaching staff, it wasn't

Were you in practice?  Were you in the huddle at the games?  Then you really don't know what the coaching staff was pointing out and emphasizing.  I return to my point that the team was young and unexperienced.

I do give credit where credit is due and in the 2 games i have attended this year i see less and less of this, and at times i am impressed with the way things are ending up

Being around basketball (and athletics in general) my entire life, I understand the importance of repetition.  In general, the team has not changed too much, from this year to last.  The coaching staff hasn't, and it's safe to say, Coach Koelbl's emphases have not changed.  Could it be that the players have matured, and with the extra experience from the past few seasons that they're finally GETTING IT?  I return to the Roosevelt quote... "There is no effort without error or shortcoming."  As players become more experienced and buy into a coach's philosophy (both in understanding and action), the errors become fewer and less extreme.

what do i have against koelbl?  nothing really, except that one year i saw the talent he threw out on the floor and saw two of my buddies that got cut and knew what they could do that some of those players couldn't.

So the truth really comes out... you're just bitter that your friends got cut.  I suppose that is understandable, to a point, but ya need to understand that Coach Koelbl is trying to run a college basketball program.  This is VERY different from high school, in that a coach controls who he recruits and who comes and plays for him.  Now, other players try out, but if these players don't work with the system that the coach wants to run, then, in the long haul, it would be better not to keep them.  Coach Koelbl was planning for the future, not just the present.  That's the big difference between college and high school... HS is all about immediate success, but college is about the overall success of the program.  Many times you take your licks one year to simply turn around and have success the next, and especially for a program like La Crosse with limited tradition, this needs to be built from the ground up.

BTW, the karma features become available after you've reached a certain number of posts.  I'm not sure how many that... perhaps 100?  I really don't know. 

[billys]

Point Special, right on.

A few notes I wanted to make in reading these rebuttals.

In regards to UWL's finish last year. It shouldn't be forgotten that one of their mainstays, Chris Ask was lost for the season in I believe the Platteville game. So you took a young, inexperienced team and took out someone, who at that time, was probably their number two option.

Somewhere earlier there was a timeframe noted on "building" a program. With the illustrious history of UWL basketball, and the setup of DIII in general (no scholarships), I think that realistically that time frame needs to be extended. It's one thing to say, "Now he's playing with some of his players," but for the first two to three years of a coach's tenure they are recruiting off of the records and history of the coaches and the program before him. A coach's first true recruiting class has just one year of his own "history" to build from. Koelbl's first year to go out and recruit had him with an 11-14 (4-12) record with someone else's players (luckily including Casey Taggatz). His second year, now with either someone else's kids or young, unproven players is 7-18. To me that makes what he has done so far with this group even better. You have to show a lot of patience and faith in what you believe in as a plan to see that through.

I really don't believe laxeagles1 represents the voice of the Eagle fan base. Realistically Koelbl may be ahead of the plan based on the history and precedent of this program. You don't win in the WIAC consistently with freshmen and sophomores against everyone elses juniors and seniors. Their women's program there has had the same situation the past few years and seems to be improved with a more balanced/experienced roster.

[titan2000]

off question: how do karma points work? 

If you really care...under the karma points, when you are signed in, there is applaud (+1) and smite (-1).  I think the only posters that care is Titan2000 and "The Roop"

Old School:  It would be "the only posters that care are titan 2000 and "The Roop"  I learned that before I matriculated at UW-Oshkosh.

Please provide Roop and I one positive Karma point.  Thanks.

[titan2000]

UW LaCrosse--where the men and men and the women are too.