MBB: Wisconsin Intercollegiate Athletic Conference

[badgerwarhawk]

Obviously both game planning and execution are important but the most brilliant plan looks pretty stupid if the players don't execute.    On the other hand many different plans will work if they are executed well. 

Every play scores on paper.

[cubs]

TVD is a very good coach, but when Oshkosh has won the "big games", I often think that it was due to outstanding performances, rather than great coached games.

So I guess it is all the players fault then when Oshkosh plays poorly and loses to infereior competition?? 

You can't have it both ways.....

[Mr. Downtown]

Alright, good examples of both Outstanding Performances and Outstanding Coaching for Oshkosh.

A couple of seasons ago, when at the end of the season with Point coming into Kolf as #1 (and they would win the National Championship), TVD comes up with a gameplan that would be the only way of slowing down Kalsow and Bennett with a Box and 1. Pretty much the only time they had used the defense that entire season. It worked, giving Oshkosh a big time win, and slowing down Point.

For the players, look at the Elmhurst game. DJ Marsh stole the show, and with the game winning basket, that was all an adjustment by the players. Hard for TVD to know that Marsh wasn't going to be guarded on the inbound pass.

You need a little bit of both to win games, that's obvious, but sometimes players catch on fire, all the coach needs to do is make sure they get the rock and they will do the rest.

And yes, Cubs, it is the players fault when they lose to infereior competition. Didn't one of the Nonemacher brothers  just admit to that concerning Whitewater's loss to St. John's?

All coaches can do is make sure the players are ready to go. So yes, when the players win, they get the glory, and when they lose, they should get the blame.

TVD is older than 40, and he's a man. So if Oshkosh does lose to a team like Defiance, then you can go after him, rather than the players.

[Pioneer Hoops Fan]

Alright, good examples of both Outstanding Performances and Outstanding Coaching for Oshkosh.

A couple of seasons ago, when at the end of the season with Point coming into Kolf as #1 (and they would win the National Championship), TVD comes up with a gameplan that would be the only way of slowing down Kalsow and Bennett with a Box and 1. Pretty much the only time they had used the defense that entire season. It worked, giving Oshkosh a big time win, and slowing down Point.

For the players, look at the Elmhurst game. DJ Marsh stole the show, and with the game winning basket, that was all an adjustment by the players. Hard for TVD to know that Marsh wasn't going to be guarded on the inbound pass.

You need a little bit of both to win games, that's obvious, but sometimes players catch on fire, all the coach needs to do is make sure they get the rock and they will do the rest.

And yes, Cubs, it is the players fault when they lose to infereior competition. Didn't one of the Nonemacher brothers  just admit to that concerning Whitewater's loss to St. John's?

All coaches can do is make sure the players are ready to go. So yes, when the players win, they get the glory, and when they lose, they should get the blame.

TVD is older than 40, and he's a man. So if Oshkosh does lose to a team like Defiance, then you can go after him, rather than the players.   

I think the whole argument is smokin mirrors to begin with because many arguments could be made either way, whether it was the players or coaching staff.  Players make plays, plays win games.  Players can't make plays without the coaching staff impletmenting the game plans for the players to make plays within it...yada yada yada.

I don't really get the end of your post though Downtown.  If TVD were 38, could we blame the players?  Isn't Defiance considered an inferior team?  Cuz if they are, regardless if TVD is 28 or 60, you say the blame is on the players.

I bet you could ask TVD, and he would say they lost that game, because he and his staff didn't have his guys ready enough to win that game...and that when they win, its all about those guys on the floor and the scout team for giving a great look.

Players do win ballgames, but dont do so without a gameplan and game management of a Head Coach and staff to help them along.  Head Coaches and their staff lose ballgames because they didn't put their players into position to win.  Teams can have all the talent in the world, but if their isn't the proper system or guidance to help them along, talent doesn't go anywhere.

[Pat Coleman]

... slowing down Kalsow and Bennett with a Box and 1. Pretty much the only time they had used the defense that entire season.

I don't know anyone that uses Box and 1 as their primary form of defense.

[Just Bill]

... slowing down Kalsow and Bennett with a Box and 1. Pretty much the only time they had used the defense that entire season.

I don't know anyone that uses Box and 1 as their primary form of defense.

I think Grinnell has been known to use a Triangle-and-Zero. 

[badgerwarhawk]

TVD is older than 40, and he's a man. So if Oshkosh does lose to a team like Defiance, then you can go after him, rather than the players.

I think this is just a cheap rip off of the rant by that college football coach this year, I can't remember the name and I'm too lazy to look for it, when he ranted at the media because one of them had written negative comments about one of his players.  He more or less told her to pick on him because he was a man and I believe he stated his age as 40 so he could take it. 

Come on Downtown and fess up.  You just mimicked that comment didn't you. 

[Greek Tragedy]

Anyway, the reason I made the reply is that a lot of people forget (or don't even realize) that there isn't a Head Coach in the WIAC who has taken a team deeper in the NCAA Tournament than UWO's Van Dellen (3-1 and Elite 8 in 2003.) 

This is what you said...

My reply

Your argument on TVD and 2003 doesn't hold water since you know Bennett is gone now.  Besides, are there any PLAYERS that can make that claim now, no, they all graduated!  Come on! lol.  

What you said

What does Bennett being gone have anything to do with with my comments about TVD?  All I said is that there isn't another WIAC Head Coach who has accomplished what TVD has in the post-season.  The facts back that up!!!! 

My point is that it's not a very bold statement considering Jack Bennett retired just two years ago after leading them to back to back championships.  Yeah, your statement is true, but it's convenient that you use 2003 as your cutoff.  Point was the only WIAC participant in 2004 and 2005 with La Crosse, Whitewater and Stout making it in 2006 and the latter two losing in the 2nd round.  Point also lost in the Sweet 16 last year (with a different coach of course).  So, your "history" basically covers 2 years since Bennett is gone.  I mean, I could make a fact-based claim and say Bob Semling has taken his team the furthest of any current WIAC coach in the last 4 years!

[Greek Tragedy]

I'M A MAN, AND I'M 40!!!!!!!

Yes, it's a joke.  The football coach for Oklahoma State was ripping an article in his local newspaper that criticized his players, instead of criticizing the coach.

If you go to YouTube and type in Ok. St or something about Mike Gundy.  It's hilarious and well worth watching.

There are a bunch of mock Michelob Light commercials as well...funny stuff.

[Pioneer Hoops Fan]

Yep...got it now.  Funny how fast I forgot about that blow up.  Just needed some help to jog the memory a little bit.

[cubs]

Yeah, your statement is true, but it's convenient that you use 2003 as your cutoff.

The problem was 2003 wasn't my cut-off..... 

However, now that I did a little digging, I find my statement was incorrect anyway.     I completely forgot that Terry Gibbons got Eau Claire to the National Title game in 2000, behind the talents of Sherm Carstensen and Jon Wallenfelsz.

[Greek Tragedy]

No prob.  I guess how I read that, knowing EC went in 2000 (3-pt prayer knocks Point out in the Elite 8 down at Buena Vista), I thought 2003 was your cutoff.  Sorry! lol...

[Greek Tragedy]

Oh yeah, women's Pointer game vs. Oshkosh is at 3 pm.  So I'm guessing the box office opens around 2:30.  If you pay for the women's game, I believe you can buy a ticket for the men's game at the same time and get in that game for half price.

[janesvilleflash]

Mr. Downtown, I refuse to read any more of your posts.

Janesvilleflash

2007/08 Regional Winner: Best Sports Post reader
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[chmarx]

What?  Is that a joke, Flash?