MBB: Wisconsin Intercollegiate Athletic Conference

[Champ99]

I took it that Oshosh fouled too more than in shooting  or bonus situations and Point subsequently went to the line more than Oshkosh. 

Huh???  Please clarify......

Cub:
His quote of the game made it sound that Oshkosh simply committed more fouls than Point and Point subsequently went to the line more than Oshkosh.  It wasn't on the officials but on Oshkosh for fouling too much.  Keep in mind I was not at the game, just giving you another side of how I interpreted the post.
I realized after I posted that last night it sounded funny and I didn't take the time to fix it.  Sorry.

[cubs]

Cub:
His quote of the game made it sound that Oshkosh simply committed more fouls than Point and Point subsequently went to the line more than Oshkosh.  It wasn't on the officials but on Oshkosh for fouling too much.  Keep in mind I was not at the game, just giving you another side of how I interpreted the post.

I realized after I posted that last night it sounded funny and I didn't take the time to fix it.  Sorry.

Ahhhh..... gotcha...

I guess it's all about how you interpret it.

[Greek Tragedy]

Platteville,  you wouldn't see the next Michael Jordan in any Div III player ever!  Chris Martin is better than any player the WIAC has to offer this year!  Period!!  You can't argue that!!

Maybe this year dude.  We lost about 10 senior all-conference players last year.  But, last time I checked, the WIAC had the last two NATIONAL PLAYER OF THE YEAR players in Jason Kalsow and Rich Melzer.

How do you like them apples! 

And your boy Chris Martin is 2nd team preseason all-american, while Keelan Amelianovich is 1st team.

keep talking like a sausage.

[Mr. Downtown]

Ok, first of all I wasn't complaining about bad officiating. I never comment on that because its a part of the game at times. And to be honest, I was seeing a lot of it at Kolf that night for the womens side.

Now, TVD's quote is EXACTLY what everybody thinks right now this team. I believe I had a little snip it on my last post about lack of leadership, and its apparent. There is no fire right now, except in the belly of the fans who right now are 2nd guessing this team in the third game of the year.

Stevens Point DOMINATED Oshkosh, not just beat them soundly. Now, yes BadgerWarhawk, Turnovers were a big difference (17-6), and Point had 9 steals. I was just pointing out that if Oshkosh didn't foul as often, and both teams shot the same amount of free throws, then suddenly it becomes a close game.

Another thing, Doedens should never foul out of a game. I mean, what is he doing on the court? Is hacking right away if someone steals the ball away?

Its just fustrating right now, and TVD is only trying to step up and challenge this team. Where will the leadership come from? I dunno know, not Jahnke, not Capelle, probably no one on the starting 5 actually.

One guy to look at...Pete Warning. Yeah, I know he is a center, but at his size, he can easily play 4. So, TVD has to make some adjustments, but right now, if you he can't adjust his teams passion and attitude, then I guess as a coach all you can do is adjust personal. Next game against Superior, I would have Warning at 4, move Capelle at 3 with Jahnke at 2 and Doedens at 1 and see how that works out. I mean, this team NEEDS a spark from someone, and the way Warning played on Wednesday (5-5 FG, 10 points), why the hell not? I've lost track how many times he has played the hero role coming off the bench and saving Oshkosh (one conference tourney game still rests in my mind...i think it was in whitewater, wasn't BW  )

Superior WILL NOT be a test to this team, it will be until Dec. 10th on their home court against Stout to see where this team will be, and how they will react. Its about someone lit a fire under this team butt.

[Greek Tragedy]

Not a problem Mr. Downtown.

I don't think anyone was thinking you were complaining about the officiating.  I think we just wanted you to make clear of your points.  Sometimes when fans mention the free throw desparity, a guy fouling out and and stuff like that, readers can take that as a complaint against the officiating.  So, I think we just wanted you to clarify your statements, which you did.  The only reasons Superior might be a test is because I think the players feel the pressure is mounting on them and going up to Superior is always a joy (sense the sarcasm there).

[Pioneerbacker]

Mr. Downtown,

It's awful (I mean it, no sarcasm) that Oshy can't find a leader amongst Jahnke and Capelle.  I guess talent can only take you so far.  Point and Platteville were so good last year because they had good leadership (from more than one player on each team).  Normally the leader of the team is one scoring the most points (or grabbing the most rebounds, etc), and it's typically not someone coming off the bench.  If that's the case, they should be starting for their leadership on the floor, and I'm willing to bet they will do the little things to make the team better. 

It's one thing to blast your team in the locker room, but it's a different story saying these things to the media.  I can see it in professional sports, but Div III basketball?  I'm not bashing TVD or his team, but aren't "heart" and "leadership" reflections on/from recruiting and coaching?  Don't they kind of go along with character?     

[cubs]

It's one thing to blast your team in the locker room, but it's a different story saying these things to the media.  I can see it in professional sports, but Div III basketball?  I'm not bashing TVD or his team, but aren't "heart" and "leadership" reflections on/from recruiting and coaching?  Don't they kind of go along with character?     

You know who those quotes sound very similar to??

Another coach at UWO, baseball coach Tom Lechnir.  I can remember reading things like that in the past (10+ years ago) and it usually had a positive effect on his teams.  Maybe TVD is hoping for the same result.

[titan2000]

Superior has their Super Bowl tonight 

[frodotwo]

I was at the SP/Osh game and saw no real fire on the Titans. I didn't see anyone other than Jahnke with any fire in their face. Gibson was like the Sphinx and Capelle his twin. The bench was quiet nearly the whole game and no one stepped up to lead the team. I thought Warning was the most dangerous player on the court for the Titans, as no Pointer could stop his inside strength, unlike all the rest of the top players, who where kept in check. Unless they develop some fire and leadership this will be a long up-and-down year for the team. Even when the Pointers lost games in the past few years, there was never a question of fire and leadership, it was always there on the court and on the bench. Talent will get you only so far........teamwork, chemistry and leadership are also required ingredients when mixing that formula for success.

[cardinalpride]

Platteville,  you wouldn't see the next Michael Jordan in any Div III player ever!  Chris Martin is better than any player the WIAC has to offer this year!  Period!!  You can't argue that!!

Maybe this year dude.  We lost about 10 senior all-conference players last year.  But, last time I checked, the WIAC had the last two NATIONAL PLAYER OF THE YEAR players in Jason Kalsow and Rich Melzer.

How do you like them apples! 

And your boy Chris Martin is 2nd team preseason all-american, while Keelan Amelianovich is 1st team.

keep talking like a sausage.

OS, I see why your name is old school because you live in the past!  I said "THIS YEAR" for a reason.  No one questions the teams or the talent the WIAC have had in recent years.  Hell, a team from your league has won the title 5 out of 8 years.  However, Platteville was speaking as if Martin is overrated.  That's No good!  Furthermore, preseason AA status means nothing.  You can ask anyone in our league that knows anything about basketball, and they'll tell you Martin is a better player than Amelianovich. 

Not only is Chris Martin a better player than anyone in the WIAC THIS YEAR, the CCIW can produce 2 to 3 other players that are better than any player your conference has to offer THIS YEAR!!! 

Apples right back at cha!! 

Cardinal Pride starts with me!!  Go Cards!!!

CP

[BanditUWSP]

I must say that several of us Pointer fans at last Wednesday's game were glad that Pete Warning did not get a lot of minutes.  I felt that he was a presence most of the time he was on the court.  Don't know why he only got 11 minutes unless that's his role.   As for Gibson, I don't think he had a  bad game but if I remember correctly, he had much better games against Point during the regular season in 2004-05.  I, too, also didn't notice any Titan that really stood out as a leader, but I don't know who had that role last year for them either.  Fernholz? 

It's early in the season and I wouldn't write the Titans off just yet.  But I also think you have to include the Pointers in the mix as well.  Not just because the beat Oshkosh rather convincingly, but because of how quickly they have jelled as a team with 7-8 new players and how they play unselfish team basketball.     

[Mr. Ypsi]

Platteville,  you wouldn't see the next Michael Jordan in any Div III player ever!  Chris Martin is better than any player the WIAC has to offer this year!  Period!!  You can't argue that!!

Maybe this year dude.  We lost about 10 senior all-conference players last year.  But, last time I checked, the WIAC had the last two NATIONAL PLAYER OF THE YEAR players in Jason Kalsow and Rich Melzer.

How do you like them apples! 

And your boy Chris Martin is 2nd team preseason all-american, while Keelan Amelianovich is 1st team.

keep talking like a sausage.

OS, I see why your name is old school because you live in the past!  I said "THIS YEAR" for a reason.  No one questions the teams or the talent the WIAC have had in recent years.  Hell, a team from your league has won the title 5 out of 8 years.  However, Platteville was speaking as if Martin is overrated.  That's No good!  Furthermore, preseason AA status means nothing.  You can ask anyone in our league that knows anything about basketball, and they'll tell you Martin is a better player than Amelianovich. 

Not only is Chris Martin a better player than anyone in the WIAC THIS YEAR, the CCIW can produce 2 to 3 other players that are better than any player your conference has to offer THIS YEAR!!! 

Apples right back at cha!! 

Cardinal Pride starts with me!!  Go Cards!!!

CP

OK, guys, settle down!!

First of all, you've both failed to notice that Adam Dauksas is ALSO first team all-american.

OS, unless someone from the WIAC emerges (which I would NOT doubt may happen), cp MAY be right that the CCIW has 2-4 players better than your individual best THIS year.

cp, NO ONE in the CCIW who knows anything would disagree that Chris Martin is the best player (or at least better than 2004 POY Amelianovich)??  These are the sorts of statements that can destroy one's credibility.  I admire Chris Martin's skills  tremendously, but I can think of FOUR Titans that I personally would want on MY team before I got to him (not all are necessarily 'better', but I'd prefer them on my team).  CM will almost certainly be first team all-conference (PERHAPS even first team all-american), but lets not go TOO far over the top!

OK, "Miss Manners" has left the building - you may resume!

[Gregory Sager]

cp, NO ONE in the CCIW who knows anything would disagree that Chris Martin is the best player (or at least better than 2004 POY Amelianovich)??  These are the sorts of statements that can destroy one's credibility.  I admire Chris Martin's skills  tremendously, but I can think of FOUR Titans that I personally would want on MY team before I got to him (not all are necessarily 'better', but I'd prefer them on my team).  CM will almost certainly be first team all-conference (PERHAPS even first team all-american), but lets not go TOO far over the top!

Personally, Chuck, I think that you went over the top in saying that there are four Wesleyan players you'd pick ahead of Chris Martin for your team.

I think Cardinal Pride is going a little over the top, too, just as I think Platteville1985 went a little over the top in dissing Chris Martin in the first place. And Old School's talking-sausage comment was not only over the top, it was halfway back down the other side of the hill.

What you do say we all go over the top and back to CCIW Chat with this who's-the-best-in-the-CCIW argument and leave these nice people alone to their own league? 

[cardinalpride]

Platteville,  you wouldn't see the next Michael Jordan in any Div III player ever!  Chris Martin is better than any player the WIAC has to offer this year!  Period!!  You can't argue that!!

Maybe this year dude.  We lost about 10 senior all-conference players last year.  But, last time I checked, the WIAC had the last two NATIONAL PLAYER OF THE YEAR players in Jason Kalsow and Rich Melzer.

How do you like them apples! 

And your boy Chris Martin is 2nd team preseason all-american, while Keelan Amelianovich is 1st team.

keep talking like a sausage.

OS, I see why your name is old school because you live in the past!  I said "THIS YEAR" for a reason.  No one questions the teams or the talent the WIAC have had in recent years.  Hell, a team from your league has won the title 5 out of 8 years.  However, Platteville was speaking as if Martin is overrated.  That's No good!  Furthermore, preseason AA status means nothing.  You can ask anyone in our league that knows anything about basketball, and they'll tell you Martin is a better player than Amelianovich. 

Not only is Chris Martin a better player than anyone in the WIAC THIS YEAR, the CCIW can produce 2 to 3 other players that are better than any player your conference has to offer THIS YEAR!!! 

Apples right back at cha!! 

Cardinal Pride starts with me!!  Go Cards!!!

CP

OK, guys, settle down!!

First of all, you've both failed to notice that Adam Dauksas is ALSO first team all-american.

OS, unless someone from the WIAC emerges (which I would NOT doubt may happen), cp MAY be right that the CCIW has 2-4 players better than your individual best THIS year.

cp, NO ONE in the CCIW who knows anything would disagree that Chris Martin is the best player (or at least better than 2004 POY Amelianovich)??  These are the sorts of statements that can destroy one's credibility.  I admire Chris Martin's skills  tremendously, but I can think of FOUR Titans that I personally would want on MY team before I got to him (not all are necessarily 'better', but I'd prefer them on my team).  CM will almost certainly be first team all-conference (PERHAPS even first team all-american), but lets not go TOO far over the top!

OK, "Miss Manners" has left the building - you may resume!

YPSI, My comments were just a rebut to OS.  That's the reason I didn't mention Adam.  

As far as you taking 4 guys on IW team before you take CM, well, that's your opinion.  However, when I say "better player" I'm speaking of talent, skill, and competitiveness.  No one on Wesleyan exhibits all three moreso than Martin.  He rebounds, he defends, and he scores, and his versatility is unmatched in our league.  Now don't get me wrong IW may have 4 guys better than martin in certain areas; suchas Dauksas(playmaking ability), Amelianovich (shooting), and Freeman & Cory Jones (Rebounding), but none of those players have better all around game than Martin.  You would have to agree with that.  I don't believe my statements were too far over the top.  

Besides, I never said he was the best player in the CCIW, just better than anyone in the WIAC this year!!!

Cardinal Pride starts with Me!!  Go Cards!!!

[cardinalpride]

cp, NO ONE in the CCIW who knows anything would disagree that Chris Martin is the best player (or at least better than 2004 POY Amelianovich)??  These are the sorts of statements that can destroy one's credibility.  I admire Chris Martin's skills  tremendously, but I can think of FOUR Titans that I personally would want on MY team before I got to him (not all are necessarily 'better', but I'd prefer them on my team).  CM will almost certainly be first team all-conference (PERHAPS even first team all-american), but lets not go TOO far over the top!

Personally, Chuck, I think that you went over the top in saying that there are four Wesleyan players you'd pick ahead of Chris Martin for your team.

I think Cardinal Pride is going a little over the top, too, just as I think Platteville1985 went a little over the top in dissing Chris Martin in the first place. And Old School's talking-sausage comment was not only over the top, it was halfway back down the other side of the hill.

What you do say we all go over the top and back to CCIW Chat with this who's-the-best-in-the-CCIW argument and leave these nice people alone to their own league? 

Greg,  You're right!  I still don't think I was over the top!!  I have to take up for the players in our league.  Especially, when I've personally seen the best the WIAC has to offer.