MBB: Wisconsin Intercollegiate Athletic Conference

[titan2000]

It's a good thing the upriver sturgeon spearing season ended so TVD could do some game planning for WW.   

[John Gleich]

hmm...  any LaX fans have any news why Coach Koelbl was suspended tonite?

UW-L, under acting head coach Aaron Bonnett, took a 2-0 lead on Nick Papendieck's layup, but never led the rest of the game. UW-L accepted the recommendation from WIAC Commissioner Gary Karner Wednesday afternoon that head men's basketball coach Ken Koelbl be suspended for Wednesday's contest. The recommendation came after the Eagles' 85-83 overtime loss to UW-River Falls Feb. 11.

This game had controversy... and led to this WIAC release.

So not only does LaX have to keep the loss that likely would have been prevented by the correct call last Wednesday, but Coach K also has to end the season not on the bench?  That does not seem right.

There is a story on the LaX newspaper website, but it does not mention anything in detail...  I think the conference should give reasoning for a decision like this since it was apparently handed down by the commissioner himself.

http://www.lacrossetribune.com/articles/2009/02/19/sports/1sports.txt

[hooper25]

I was a member in the audience at the UWW vs. Oshkosh game up in oshkosh tonight.

So i would love to respond or answer any questions about what exactly happened in Oshkosh tonight because the officiating was the worst Ive seen after a life of basketball and four years of college basketball.

No doubt about it, Oshkosh is a tough place to play and never a good trip for any road team. But how the game unfolded at the end was pretty much unacceptable. I will even say that the officiating was horrible for both teams. To detail on what exacty happened tonight, due to the fact I was sitting right behind the scorer's table, what happened with 7.5 seconds or maybe 7.0 or maybe 6.7 seconds, who knows cause the officials for sure didnt know what was going on.

Marsh made a tough layup to put Oshkosh up by 1 with lets say roughly 8 seconds left. Whitewater came charging down the other way beyond half court when out of nowhere the ref blows the whistle and stops the play. No one in the stands knew what was going on. Supposedly the clock didnt start on time so the official stopped play. Which took away all of Whitewaters momentum they had charging down in the direction of their hoop. Coach Miller and the entire WW side was up in arms. Rightfully so. Even to the point where Miller should hae recieved a Technical Foul. Due to the fact the official had already failed he could not give Miller technical and ruin what he had already started which was his own ultimate failure.

For those who do not understand basketball and post about stuff they have no idea what they are talking about; I'll explain:

When the official blew the whistle he allowed oshkosh to get their defense set and get their matchups right. Whitewater was in  full head of steam in a direction where everyone was scrambling around. Having played, for the most part, thats exactly what you want in a situation like that. I hope that makes sense to those who post about stuff they do know.

After that whole debacle, WW received the ball and were obviously given a chance at a last second shot. In which they missed. Congrats to Oshkosh, always good to beat a tough WW team, at home, on senior night.

Having been sitting behind the scorer's table, and hearing what was going on during the mess, I found it funny to hear the ref say "I shouldnt have blown the whistle." At the same time, watch the other officials also know that he shouldnt have blown the whistle. Not to mention after the game, the fans were completely unacceptable.

A worker at the scorer's table begging and wishing coach Miller was on that side of the table in which he eventually swiped at Miller. I stepped in and had to hold the worker back and kept telling him to relax....Are you serious? Even to the point where I got slapped on the arm by his daughter who ran down from the stands to protect her Dad....?

Even if you flip the situation, and WW won the game, I would have said the exact same things about how bad the officials were during the game, except on Ohskosh's side.

I am not usually one to complain about much but I just hope all the people in the stands saw exactly what went on, on the basketball court. Im not sayin WW should have won, but given the situation, who knows what would have happened....

[stoutguy]

Note to Gary Karner with a CC sent to Tom Fiedler (supervisor of officials). 

1.  The officiating in this league is terrible.
2.  The officials make a major mistake in the La Crosse game so Coach Koelbl is suspended.
3.  The WW/Oshkosh game is filled with controversy.  I assume it will be Coach Miller receiving 
     the next suspension.
4.  What is wrong with this picture?  How much are these guys expected to endure?
5.  Get control of this situation, gentlemen.  It is close to being out of control. 

[Ralph Turner]

Note to Gary Karner with a CC sent to Tom Fiedler (supervisor of officials). 

1.  The officiating in this league is terrible.
2.  The officials make a major mistake in the La Crosse game so Coach Koelbl is suspended.
3.  The WW/Oshkosh game is filled with controversy.  I assume it will be Coach Miller receiving 
     the next suspension.
4.  What is wrong with this picture?  How much are these guys expected to endure?
5.  Get control of this situation, gentlemen.  It is close to being out of control. 

How many basketball fans in Wisconsin want to become officials to officiate in WIAC games?

If the supervisor of WIAC officials were fired, would the officiating in the WIAC immediately improve?

If so, what would make the remaining game officials better?

Thanks for the answers to the problem that seems to be prevalent in many conferences. 

[stoutguy]

Note to Gary Karner with a CC sent to Tom Fiedler (supervisor of officials). 

1.  The officiating in this league is terrible.
2.  The officials make a major mistake in the La Crosse game so Coach Koelbl is suspended.
3.  The WW/Oshkosh game is filled with controversy.  I assume it will be Coach Miller receiving 
     the next suspension.
4.  What is wrong with this picture?  How much are these guys expected to endure?
5.  Get control of this situation, gentlemen.  It is close to being out of control. 

How many basketball fans in Wisconsin want to become officials to officiate in WIAC games?

If the supervisor of WIAC officials were fired, would the officiating in the WIAC immediately improve?

If so, what would make the remaining game officials better?

Thanks for the answers to the problem that seems to be prevalent in many conferences. 

My answer to all of your questions is simple.  Let's not bury our heads in the sand and pretend that every official in the WIAC does a great job.  Not all of them do.  Is it a tough, many times thankless job?  Yes.  Can the supervisor work to make a bad situation better?  I think he can.  I get tired of hearing most conversations about a WIAC game start with the disclaimer, "Well, I know the officials don't win and lose the game, but..."

[footballfan413]

Forgive me if this has already been posted on the BB boards but thought this story was great and you guys would enjoy it. Never too late to live a dream or correct an injustice.


http://msn.foxsports.com/cbk/story/8710842?MSNHPHCP&GT1=39002

[cubs]

...oh, and maybe the biggest play of the game may have been the controversy with the clock with 7.5 seconds remain, just after Marsh scored to put the Titans in the lead.  The warhawks took the ball downcourt immediately after the shot and were beyond mid-court according the the radio broadcast, with the ball in McKay's hands, with WW with the superior numbers in the frontcourt and the Oshkosh defense not set, when the official stopped the action.  After a short delay, it was determined the game clock operator failed to start the clock.  WW was forced to inbound the ball in the backcourt sideout, with 6.5 seconds or so put on the clock.  After a timeout, WW was able to get the ball to Chris Vines under the basket, but his shot, like so many on this night, wouldn't fall and the Titans prevailed.  The question to be asked following this one is why the clock operator didn't start the clock after the Marsh made basket with 7.5 remaining? Was there a malfunction? At this time, it's a mystery, but I suppose we'll find out soon enough.  Congrats to the Titans for the win.

Just to play the devil's advocate.....  I'm sure if WW had gone down and scored, there would be some Titan faithful bringing up the fact that the officials ignored UWO's request for a timeout after the Marsh game-winner.

[badgerwarhawk]

A worker at the scorer's table begging and wishing coach Miller was on that side of the table in which he eventually swiped at Miller. I stepped in and had to hold the worker back and kept telling him to relax....Are you serious? Even to the point where I got slapped on the arm by his daughter who ran down from the stands to protect her Dad....?

I'm a tad confused.  Are you saying you had to restrain a worker at the scorer's table from getting in to it physically with Miller and that worker actually took a "swipe" at Miller?  What is a swipe anyway?  Did he try to punch him?  Miller's children are too young to come down to protect him so I assume you are referring to the worker's daughter.  

Another tough call that went against the WARHAWKS occurred with 16 seconds remaining when Oshkosh was awarded a time out without, according to the radio broadcast, having possession of the ball during a loose ball scramble from which Vines emerged in possession.  The Titan retained possession and Marsh later scored the winning basket.  I was wondering what your perception of that situation was.

We had our chances though and couldn't get it done.   That falls on us.

Congrats to the Pointer on a well deserved conference championship.  

[badgerwarhawk]

Forgive me if this has already been posted on the BB boards but thought this story was great and you guys would enjoy it. Never too late to live a dream or correct an injustice.


http://msn.foxsports.com/cbk/story/8710842?MSNHPHCP&GT1=39002

Thanks for the link.  It's an interesting story.  I went to the team's website to see what his stats were but I was unable to find any. 

[Pioneer Hoops Fan]

Note to Gary Karner with a CC sent to Tom Fiedler (supervisor of officials). 

1.  The officiating in this league is terrible.
2.  The officials make a major mistake in the La Crosse game so Coach Koelbl is suspended.
3.  The WW/Oshkosh game is filled with controversy.  I assume it will be Coach Miller receiving 
     the next suspension.
4.  What is wrong with this picture?  How much are these guys expected to endure?
5.  Get control of this situation, gentlemen.  It is close to being out of control. 

How many basketball fans in Wisconsin want to become officials to officiate in WIAC games?

If the supervisor of WIAC officials were fired, would the officiating in the WIAC immediately improve?

If so, what would make the remaining game officials better?

Thanks for the answers to the problem that seems to be prevalent in many conferences. 

My answer to all of your questions is simple.  Let's not bury our heads in the sand and pretend that every official in the WIAC does a great job.  Not all of them do.  Is it a tough, many times thankless job?  Yes.  Can the supervisor work to make a bad situation better?  I think he can.  I get tired of hearing most conversations about a WIAC game start with the disclaimer, "Well, I know the officials don't win and lose the game, but..."

There is an easy solution.  We get rid of all the stripes at all levels of competition.  Double ticket price for admission.  With each paid ticket, spectators get the official fox 40 whistle...mom and dad get two each.  When play starts, a random fan will be selected out of the hat, and that lucky fan gets to administer the jump ball to start the game.  Ok now, whenever someone sees a travel, foul, or any violation we now have 800 officials, who are probably sketchy at best on the difficult rules.  With it being done this way, we don't have to worry about planning things after the games, because now its an all day affair and there is no better way to spend your day than watching great basketball!!!!   

[wiacsuperfan]

My second question and comment is this. After the game Miller elected not to shake hands with Oshkosh and decided to go the the scorers table. What happened I don't know. But its' hard for me to believe that the score keeper would suddenly be up in arms trying to protect himself for no reason

As someone who was at the game, I'm 100% certain that Miller went through the Oshkosh line and shook hands with all of the Titans.  The incident that occurred with the timekeeper took place as Miller was walking back to the Whitewater bench and off the floor.   My guess is that Miller said something to the timekeeper and the timekeeper responded.  By the time I could get up to the Scorers Table to listen in, the timekeeper challenged Miller to come across to the other side of the table and then took an open hand swipe at Miller.  No contact was made.  The scorekeeper was then being restrained and told to calm down by his two daughters, while Miller then exited the floor.   I've never-ever seen anyone act like the TimeKeeper at a basketball game before.  No excuse for that. 

Again ,the clock issue was not the lone reason why the Warhawks lost on Wednesday night.   They put themselves in a bad position.  But the TimeKeepers mistake certainly had an effect on the game. 

One other note, Congrats to the Titans for the win.   Secker-Anderson and Matt Miller have been fun to watch throughout their careers and it was nice to see them earn a big win during their final home game.   

[badgerwarhawk]

As someone who was at the game, I'm 100% certain that Miller went through the Oshkosh line and shook hands with all of the Titans.  The incident that occurred with the timekeeper took place as Miller was walking back to the Whitewater bench and off the floor.   My guess is that Miller said something to the timekeeper and the timekeeper responded.  By the time I could get up to the Scorers Table to listen in, the timekeeper challenged Miller to come across to the other side of the table and then took an open hand swipe at Miller.  No contact was made.  The scorekeeper was then being restrained and told to calm down by his two daughters, while Miller then exited the floor.   I've never-ever seen anyone act like the TimeKeeper at a basketball game before.  No excuse for that. 

Again ,the clock issue was not the lone reason why the Warhawks lost on Wednesday night.   They put themselves in a bad position.  But the TimeKeepers mistake certainly had an effect on the game.    

Thanks for the input.  It would be unlike Pat not to shake hands after the game.  Even one that we've lost and had a messed up finish. 

As a timer myself I'd be lying to say I've never made a mistake nor been taken to task by a coach.  It's not an easy job and in the heat of the game you have to work really hard to stay focused.  However I've never felt the urge to challenge one nor take a swipe at them.  All I can say about that is that it's highly unprofessional (regardless of what the coach said) and if you're that defensive you should probably find something else that doesn't involve working the table to do. 

I haven't meant to imply that I blame the loss on the timing error.  As I've already said, we had our chances and didn't do it.  That falls on us. 

[voice]

In regards to the TO given to Oshkosh late in the game

According to the radio guy, it was Chris Vines who handed the ball to the official following the three player scrum on the floor.  Also,  Pat Miller DID shake hands with TVD, it occurred in the player/coach line immediately in front of the radio broadcast location.

WIACSUPERFAN's recollection of the postgame scorers table incident is exactly the same recollection that I have....alsothe impact fof WW's poor defensive effort the first 10 minutes of the game.

Hawks not only lost the chance of getting a piece of the regular season conference title, but also put an NCAA playoff berth on much thinner ice. 

If both WW and Platteville win on Saturday, Platteville will get the #2 seed in next week's WIAC tournament due to its road win at Stevens Point.  It would give the Pioneers a win of someone higher in the standings than them.

[stoutguy]

As someone who was at the game, I'm 100% certain that Miller went through the Oshkosh line and shook hands with all of the Titans.  The incident that occurred with the timekeeper took place as Miller was walking back to the Whitewater bench and off the floor.   My guess is that Miller said something to the timekeeper and the timekeeper responded.  By the time I could get up to the Scorers Table to listen in, the timekeeper challenged Miller to come across to the other side of the table and then took an open hand swipe at Miller.  No contact was made.  The scorekeeper was then being restrained and told to calm down by his two daughters, while Miller then exited the floor.   I've never-ever seen anyone act like the TimeKeeper at a basketball game before.  No excuse for that. 

Again ,the clock issue was not the lone reason why the Warhawks lost on Wednesday night.   They put themselves in a bad position.  But the TimeKeepers mistake certainly had an effect on the game.    

Thanks for the input.  It would be unlike Pat not to shake hands after the game.  Even one that we've lost and had a messed up finish. 

As a timer myself I'd be lying to say I've never made a mistake nor been taken to task by a coach.  It's not an easy job and in the heat of the game you have to work really hard to stay focused.  However I've never felt the urge to challenge one nor take a swipe at them.  All I can say about that is that it's highly unprofessional (regardless of what the coach said) and if you're that defensive you should probably find something else that doesn't involve working the table to do. 

I haven't meant to imply that I blame the loss on the timing error.  As I've already said, we had our chances and didn't do it.  That falls on us. 

Well said, BW.  And I would add, that when I ranted about officials this morning, that could include all game officials (on the court and off).  It just seems to me that coaches in the conference are constantly being called out for their decisions and sometimes their behavior and often it is their reactions to other people not acting in the best interests of the game.  Let's make sure that timekeeper gets called upon to explain himself, and not just Coach Miller.