MBB: Wisconsin Intercollegiate Athletic Conference

[wcbsas]

...oh, and maybe the biggest play of the game may have been the controversy with the clock with 7.5 seconds remain, just after Marsh scored to put the Titans in the lead.  The warhawks took the ball downcourt immediately after the shot and were beyond mid-court according the the radio broadcast, with the ball in McKay's hands, with WW with the superior numbers in the frontcourt and the Oshkosh defense not set, when the official stopped the action.  After a short delay, it was determined the game clock operator failed to start the clock.  WW was forced to inbound the ball in the backcourt sideout, with 6.5 seconds or so put on the clock.  After a timeout, WW was able to get the ball to Chris Vines under the basket, but his shot, like so many on this night, wouldn't fall and the Titans prevailed.  The question to be asked following this one is why the clock operator didn't start the clock after the Marsh made basket with 7.5 remaining? Was there a malfunction? At this time, it's a mystery, but I suppose we'll find out soon enough.  Congrats to the Titans for the win.

Just to play the devil's advocate.....  I'm sure if WW had gone down and scored, there would be some Titan faithful bringing up the fact that the officials ignored UWO's request for a timeout after the Marsh game-winner.

Its funny you say that, youre probably right, but at the same time, how fast did WW get the ball in bounds? I mean they were already beyond half court...

and yes Miller went through and shook every persons hand, Im pretty sure he did say something to the scorer's table...I absolutely would have. The way the worker reacted was outrageous...(for the worker) A. do your job, do your job right... and B. If youre going to fail that bad, get a new job.

And yes, I as referring to the workers daughter, I did get slapped by her.

As far as the officiating, its dumb to listen to people say blah blah blah lets pull names out of a hat...grow up. (wouldnt be surprised if that was an official)

I agee lets watch great basketball and let the players athleticism determine the outcome of the game. What I saw last night was the worst Ive ever seen and was out of the players hands...

As far as officiating in general...

I feel as if no official who does WIAC games should be able to do both high school and college at the same time...its a completely different game, expecialy in the WIAC. Also, refs who attended colleges in the WIAC should also not be allowed to officiate the games today in the WIAC...and they for sure hopefully should have played basketball at the college level so they understand what truly goes on in the game today...

2nd hand from Miller's mouth ... he shook hands with UWO's players and coaches, he walked back past the scorer's table and said sarcastically "Good Job" ... the scorer responded by greeting Miller with the "FU" response and took up a fighting posture ... someone intervened from the sidelines and that's when the score keepers daughter interevened between those two.

The score keeper should be banned and not be allowed to ever participate in another WIAC game ... not because of his mistake but because his reponse and reaction afterwards.

[badgerwarhawk]

OS, using the critera of teams in descending order will come before road records.  Unfortunately the loss in Oshkosh kind of goofs that up for us unless Eau Claire finishes ahead of Oshkosh.  In that event Platteville's loss to the BluGold would slot them in the 3 seed.  I'm not sure who wins the tie breaker if Eau Claire and Oshkosh tie. 

At any rate I've gone from pulling for Platteville to beat Point to pulling for Point to beat Platteville in the last 24 hours.


The WIAC tiebreaking critera:

1. Head-to-head competition between tied teams.

2. Cumulative Won/Loss record vs. teams placed higher in the conference standings.

3. Record vs. teams in conference standings in descending order (i.e., #1 seed, #2 seed).

4. Team with the best road record in conference games.

5. Coin toss conducted by the WIAC commissioner.

[Note:  If two teams remain tied after a third or other teams are eliminated, the tiebreaker reverts to criteria No. 1.  For example, if four teams are tied with 4-2, 3-3, 3-3, 2-4 head -to-head records, the 4-2 receives highest seed and the 2-4 team the lowest seed in the grouping.  Since two teams remain tied at 3-3, we revert back to criteria #1 (head-to-head) between those two teams and then (if necessary) utilize the remaining criteria in order.]

[Mr. Downtown]

So as of right now, the first round would look like:

3 Platteville
6 River Falls

4 Eau Claire
5 Oshkosh

1 Point             bye
2 Whitewater   bye

Right?

[UWBadgers]

So as of right now, the first round would look like:

3 Platteville
6 River Falls

4 Eau Claire
5 Oshkosh

1 Point             bye
2 Whitewater   bye

Right?

I don't think that is right becuase if Whitewater was the #2 seed, then Oshkosh would be the #4 seed. Oshkosh and Eau Claire have the same record and split the head to head. They are both 0-2 against #1 Stevens Point. IF Whitewater is #2, then Osh would be the #4 seed based on going 1-1 against Whitewater and Eau Claire going 0-2. IF Platteville is the #2 then Eau Claire would be the #4 seed based on the 1-1 record against Platteville.

[bgbacker]

UWBadgers .. you have it exactly right. The odds are that Oshkosh will be the #4 seed and EC the #5. Both are playing very well right now, so it should be interesting. The regular season game at Kolf was an OT thriller, with the Titans winning.

[UWBadgers]

UWBadgers .. you have it exactly right. The odds are that Oshkosh will be the #4 seed and EC the #5. Both are playing very well right now, so it should be interesting. The regular season game at Kolf was an OT thriller, with the Titans winning.

Oshkosh still has a big game at Superior tomorrow and I can't imagine Superior rolling over for them. It will be a hard fought game by both sides, and probably will come down to the end.

[titan2000]

And we alll know what happens when Superior plays Oshkosh when something important is on the line........

[Greek Tragedy]

Milwaukee Journal Sentinel article on tie breakers.

Things get interesting because the #4 and #5 and #2 and #3 spots are up for grabs.

Stevens Point* 14-1
Platteville 12-3 
Whitewater 12-3
Eau Claire 8-7 
Oshkosh 8-7

The article says it can't figure out one without the other.  That's why I believe they could just skip to road record, making PL #2 and then WW #3, thus being able to figure out EC and OSH.

The problem will arise if Platteville and Whitewater finish tied for second and Eau Claire and Oshkosh finish tied for fourth.

The league's first two tie-breakers - head-to-head record between the tied teams and cumulative won-loss record vs. teams higher in the conference standings - would not resolve either tie.

The third tie-breaker is record vs. teams in the conference standings in descending order, beginning with the top-seeded team.

That tie-breaker cannot be applied in the aforementioned scenario.

It wouldn't be possible to determine the higher-seeded team between Platteville and Whitewater without first determining the higher-seeded team between Eau Claire and Oshkosh.

Likewise, it wouldn't be possible to determine the higher-seeded team between Eau Claire and Oshkosh without first determining the higher-seeded team between Platteville and Whitewater.

Asked Thursday whether the league would proceed to the fourth tie-breaker, the best road record in league games, or come up with another solution, Karner said:

"I'm going to give you a perfectly honest answer. I don't know."

The hard copy article is a little longer I think.

SPEAKING OF ARTICLES, CHECK OUT THE FRONT PAGE OF THE SITE AND READ THE "AROUND THE NATION" LINK...TALKS ABOUT THE LAST DAY IN THE WIAC CONFERENCE SCHEDULE...GOOD STUFF!

[Just Bill]

It wouldn't be possible to determine the higher-seeded team between Platteville and Whitewater without first determining the higher-seeded team between Eau Claire and Oshkosh.

Likewise, it wouldn't be possible to determine the higher-seeded team between Eau Claire and Oshkosh without first determining the higher-seeded team between Platteville and Whitewater.

I'm not getting the problem here.  The WIAC has had situations like this before.  You always work from the top down and you treat tied teams as a combined unit.  So to solve the WW/PLT tie when you get down to the fourth spot you compare records against BOTH EC and OSH (be it 4-0, 3-1, 2-2, 1-3 or 0-4)Then there's no need to break one tie before the other.  In this case, that still doesn't resolve the WW/PLT tie so you would continue on to the 6th place team and eventually (I think) you'd end up going to road records.

If it hasn't happened in men's basketball before, I'm sure it's happened in another sport.

[phoenix_rising]

Spent a long time ruminating over the disappointment of the Superior men's season. I don't know what happened. I suppose that's because I don't have access to coaches. Another story, another day. I would have to say that Jake Smith lived up to expectations; Dwight Hill was injured. After that, what do you say? Was the offense too one-dimensional and the defense non-existent? Wow. All that talent kind of wandering aimlessly too much of the time.

I choose to think of the season as a bad hair day. Next year, the team will be a year older, the coaches a little more familiar with particular challenges of the WIAC, and perhaps the team will untangle the snarls of this season. Hope so. While it's generally fun to watch them play, it's more fun to watch them win.

In other news, UWS men's hockey edges Lake Forest, a team that went winless in the conference. Wake up call...

[Mr. Downtown]

And we alll know what happens when Superior plays Oshkosh when something important is on the line........

Ugh. Don't remind me. Seriously...how the #$%^ did we lose to Superior last year at home? Still boggles my mind.

So if both Oshkosh and Eau Claire both win, then they head to Kolf. That should work out better for Oshkosh, seeing as how they don't play particularly well at Zorn.

[UWP SID]

There's an interesting NCAA Division I bracket-buster game going on tonight in Milwaukee, especially if you are a Pioneer fan. North Dakota State, coached by Saul Phillips, faces UW-Milwaukee, coached by Rob Jeter. Both are former UW-Platteville players and both went on to become Bo Ryan assistants. Will Ryan, Bo's oldest son, is also on Saul's staff, and the former voice of the Pioneers, Kevin O'Connor, is UW-Milwaukee's sports information director.

[Greek Tragedy]

I'm not getting the problem here.  The WIAC has had situations like this before.  You always work from the top down and you treat tied teams as a combined unit.  So to solve the WW/PLT tie when you get down to the fourth spot you compare records against BOTH EC and OSH (be it 4-0, 3-1, 2-2, 1-3 or 0-4)Then there's no need to break one tie before the other.  In this case, that still doesn't resolve the WW/PLT tie so you would continue on to the 6th place team and eventually (I think) you'd end up going to road records.

If it hasn't happened in men's basketball before, I'm sure it's happened in another sport.

1. Head-to-head competition between tied teams.

Whitewater and Platteville split.  Oshkosh and Eau Claire split.

2. Cumulative Won/Loss record vs. teams placed higher in the conference standings.

Whitewater is 1-1 vs. Point (the only team placed higher than them).  Platteville would be 1-1 if they beat Point today.  Eau Claire would be 1-5 vs. WW, PL and SP (win vs PL)  against teams placed higher than them.  Oshkosh would be 1-5 against WW, PL and SP (win vs. WW)

3. Record vs. teams in conference standings in descending order (i.e., #1 seed, #2 seed).

Here is the problem.  WW and PL are 1-1 vs. teams in conference standings in descending order (#1 SP)...but, we can't determine who's #4 and who's #5 (Oshkkosh or Eau Claire).  Likewise, we can't can determine the #4 or #5 spot using record vs. teams in conference standings in descending order because we can't determine if WW or PL are #2 and #3...got that.  That's where the problem comes in. 

4. Team with the best road record in conference games.

5. Coin toss conducted by the WIAC commissioner.

[Note:  If two teams remain tied after a third or other teams are eliminated, the tiebreaker reverts to criteria No. 1.  For example, if four teams are tied with 4-2, 3-3, 3-3, 2-4 head -to-head records, the 4-2 receives highest seed and the 2-4 team the lowest seed in the grouping.  Since two teams remain tied at 3-3, we revert back to criteria #1 (head-to-head) between those two teams and then (if necessary) utilize the remaining criteria in order.]

[Greek Tragedy]

West Region
1. St. Thomas 22-0 22-0
2. Puget Sound 21-2 18-0
3. UW-Whitewater 20-3 19-3
4. UW-Stevens Point 20-3 19-3
5. UW-Platteville 20-3 15-3
6. Buena Vista 22-2 19-2
7. Claremont-Mudd-Scripps 16-6 14-4
8. Whitworth 18-5 16-5

Things might get a little dicey for Platteville.  If they lose today and then an added loss in the tourney, that gives them 6 losses in-region (they already lost to EC)

If they win the first round game they'd be 16-6 and if they fall in the championship game they'd be 17-6 (assuming they get 3rd)...not great by any stretch of the imagination.

They gotta hope that conference leaders St. Thomas, Puget Sound, Buena Vista and Claremont-Mudd-Scripps don't get upset.

[Greek Tragedy]

WW won 72-68.

RF had a 68-67 lead with 1:25 to go.