MBB: Wisconsin Intercollegiate Athletic Conference

[John Gleich]

Interesting article in the SP Journal about Coach Semling and Coach Egner's recruiting styles.  LINK

According to the story, Egner gets the best players available and modifies what they're doing to match the players and Coach Semling only recruits players that would fit well in the previously defined system.

What do you guys think of that?  It seems to me like you'd want to get the absolute best players possible and mold the program around them... If there's an outstanding player, then it seems like a no-brainer to try to get him and utilize him in the best way possible.

Then again, if you look at the Point system, it relies on lots of parts, not just on one guy.  That's how they've been successful... if you shut down option A, B, and C, options D and E kill you.  That's what Oshkosh will run into this year... when Marsh is hampered, they're going to lose.

[wcbsas]

Interesting article in the SP Journal about Coach Semling and Coach Egner's recruiting styles.  LINK

According to the story, Egner gets the best players available and modifies what they're doing to match the players and Coach Semling only recruits players that would fit well in the previously defined system.

What do you guys think of that?  It seems to me like you'd want to get the absolute best players possible and mold the program around them... If there's an outstanding player, then it seems like a no-brainer to try to get him and utilize him in the best way possible.

Then again, if you look at the Point system, it relies on lots of parts, not just on one guy.  That's how they've been successful... if you shut down option A, B, and C, options D and E kill you.  That's what Oshkosh will run into this year... when Marsh is hampered, they're going to lose.

Because of fan support along with SP's history and legacy they are in the cat-bird seat for the most part in Wisconsin D3 recruiting.

They arguably get the best athletes who do not take a scholarship elsewhere.  Typically that means you are going to win your fair share of battles for the Matt Moses and Jerrell Harris's.  But UWSP as gotten away (IMO) with not having to have a dominate big guy.  Their last truly good post player was Kaslow ... and guess what they won a national championship with him.

Semling does not seem to have a history of recruiting and developing post players and IMO that has cost them national championships.  You can get through the WIAC and win conference championships playing the Hurd's and Hoezel's of the world but once you get into playoffs the game slows down, a dominate 6'8" to 6'10" player is the difference between a conference championship and a national championship. 

[cubs]

Then again, if you look at the Point system, it relies on lots of parts, not just on one guy.  That's how they've been successful... if you shut down option A, B, and C, options D and E kill you.  That's what Oshkosh will run into this year... when Marsh is hampered, they're going to lose.

While you may end up being right in regards to the fact that if Marsh is hampered it will result in a Titan loss, I am going to go out on a limb and disagree.  UWO's style of play this season may help them overcome an "off" night from Marsh.  This year's UWO team doesn't seem to look very similar to their teams of the past.  There is more movement/screening, and more importantly they seem to be MUCH better on the defensive end.

Last year they won a grand total of three games when they scored under 70 points (they were 3-10 overall.)  This year they have already won one of those games.  I think you would agree with the fact that UWO will likely score less points on average than they did last season.  They are going to have to win the 65-60 type games, because they don't have the offensive firepower to win 85-80 on a regular basis.

Again, I expect a middle of the road WIAC finish for UWO this year (4th-6th place) mostly because of their improved play on the defensive end.  That finish could improve depending on how often Marsh is able to "go-off" but I would suspect most WIAC coaches aren't going to allow that to happen.

I will be curious to see how they do this weekend against Puget Sound and St. John's.  That should give us a better idea of where they stand going into WIAC play.

[badgerwarhawk]

Interesting article in the SP Journal about Coach Semling and Coach Egner's recruiting styles.  LINK

According to the story, Egner gets the best players available and modifies what they're doing to match the players and Coach Semling only recruits players that would fit well in the previously defined system.

What do you guys think of that?  It seems to me like you'd want to get the absolute best players possible and mold the program around them... If there's an outstanding player, then it seems like a no-brainer to try to get him and utilize him in the best way possible.

Then again, if you look at the Point system, it relies on lots of parts, not just on one guy.  That's how they've been successful... if you shut down option A, B, and C, options D and E kill you.  That's what Oshkosh will run into this year... when Marsh is hampered, they're going to lose.

Considering the success of both programs it would seem that there is more than one way to recruit and be successfull on the floor. 

[John Gleich]

Then again, if you look at the Point system, it relies on lots of parts, not just on one guy.  That's how they've been successful... if you shut down option A, B, and C, options D and E kill you.  That's what Oshkosh will run into this year... when Marsh is hampered, they're going to lose.

While you may end up being right in regards to the fact that if Marsh is hampered it will result in a Titan loss, I am going to go out on a limb and disagree.  UWO's style of play this season may help them overcome an "off" night from Marsh.  This year's UWO team doesn't seem to look very similar to their teams of the past.  There is more movement/screening, and more importantly they seem to be MUCH better on the defensive end.

Last year they won a grand total of three games when they scored under 70 points (they were 3-10 overall.)  This year they have already won one of those games.  I think you would agree with the fact that UWO will likely score less points on average than they did last season.  They are going to have to win the 65-60 type games, because they don't have the offensive firepower to win 85-80 on a regular basis.

Again, I expect a middle of the road WIAC finish for UWO this year (4th-6th place) mostly because of their improved play on the defensive end.  That finish could improve depending on how often Marsh is able to "go-off" but I would suspect most WIAC coaches aren't going to allow that to happen.

I will be curious to see how they do this weekend against Puget Sound and St. John's.  That should give us a better idea of where they stand going into WIAC play.

That's great insight.  I haven't seen them play in over two years and I've just gone off of indirect game reports (mostly from last year) and prognostication from people who, as well, haven't necessarily seen them.  The idea of slowing down the game and playing grind-it-out games (brought on by improved defense) does certainly bode well for them.  If they can minimize the possessions, that can maximize the number of those possessions that are controlled by the guys they want to be in charge (namely Marsh, I would imagine). 

The movement/screening aspect is, at least in my opinion, just better basketball.  It allows for teams to get the best possible shot, not to try to create it themselves.  The defense will break down at some point, and even if it doesn't, you can always fall back on beating your guy 1 on 1 if you have to.  The success is not contingent upon the offensive guy always being that much better than his personal defender... in fact, it can negate deficiencies in an individual's quickness or athleticism and allow the group (i.e. the team) to have success whereas the individuals on the other team that AREN'T playing well together won't have as much success. 

And playing improved defense is the next step.  If you're going against a 1 on 1 type team, then you will have multiple defenders who are able to stop the ball if you're playing good team defense.  And if you're playing against another great team, then they won't have the easy baskets from defensive breakdowns and it will force them to make something happen, which they may not be that comfortable or able to do.  In the end, though, playing unselfish offense that spreads the ball around and tries to get the best shot AND playing improved defense will drive the score down by decreasing possessions.

It will be interesting to see what happens this weekend, I agree.  Both Puget Sound and St. Johns were pegged as the #2 teams in their leagues, though they play differently (well, I should say UPS plays differently).  I think these games will help to show where each of these leagues are comparatively.  I'll be interested to see how Eau Claire does this weekend too.  They've already knotched a win against IIAC favorite Wartburg.

I wasn't really high on the WIAC teams coming into this year... they graduated a ton (more all-conference players graduated last year than any year in the last decade) and there are 2 new coaches, but it seems to me that the league, as a whole, may be better, even if they don't have the same quality of teams at the top (though that is to be determined, last year Point, WW, and Platteville were in the upper echelon and everyone else a little farther below.  This year it isn't so clear).

[John Gleich]

Interesting article in the SP Journal about Coach Semling and Coach Egner's recruiting styles.  LINK

According to the story, Egner gets the best players available and modifies what they're doing to match the players and Coach Semling only recruits players that would fit well in the previously defined system.

What do you guys think of that?  It seems to me like you'd want to get the absolute best players possible and mold the program around them... If there's an outstanding player, then it seems like a no-brainer to try to get him and utilize him in the best way possible.

Then again, if you look at the Point system, it relies on lots of parts, not just on one guy.  That's how they've been successful... if you shut down option A, B, and C, options D and E kill you.  That's what Oshkosh will run into this year... when Marsh is hampered, they're going to lose.

Because of fan support along with SP's history and legacy they are in the cat-bird seat for the most part in Wisconsin D3 recruiting.

They arguably get the best athletes who do not take a scholarship elsewhere.  Typically that means you are going to win your fair share of battles for the Matt Moses and Jerrell Harris's.  But UWSP as gotten away (IMO) with not having to have a dominate big guy.  Their last truly good post player was Kaslow ... and guess what they won a national championship with him.

Semling does not seem to have a history of recruiting and developing post players and IMO that has cost them national championships.  You can get through the WIAC and win conference championships playing the Hurd's and Hoezel's of the world but once you get into playoffs the game slows down, a dominate 6'8" to 6'10" player is the difference between a conference championship and a national championship. 

I these are all valid points.  What's interesting is that Kalsow, while he was able to play in the post, was much, much more versatile to the point that it was not out of the ordinary for him to bring the ball up the floor.  And I think the unsung hero was Maus.  He wasn't flashy and didn't produce the numbers Kalsow did, but he was as good a post defender as you'll find and he was a great suppliment to Kalsow.  And, of course, having both those guys on the floor meant you had 6'9" and 6'7" on the floor... Add Bennett (6'5") and maybe Grusczynski (6'7") and there was definitely some considerable height on the floor. (note: Jon Krull was 6'4" and started... but this lineup would definitely be out there together and was on the floor as part of the "Pterydactyl Zone" that decimated Rochester in the second national championship game).  The odd man out (or would that be short man out?) Relerford (listed at 5'8", though that was a stretch) didn't need height guarding the point guard.  Contrast that now with Moses (6'2"),  Krull (6'7"), Hoelzl (6'6"), and Hurd (6'5") with a 5th starter that's been different in the first 3 games, and they're giving up a good two inches across the board. 

But even at 6'6" and 6'7", Krull and Hoelzl aren't your typical big guys.  Neither are back-to-the-basket type guys and would rather drive than post up.  What's interesting to me is that Point has already outrebounded all three opponents thus far this year.  It helps that they've shot over 50% in each game, but they've cleaned up the boards on the other end.  They're averaging almost 10 reb per game more than their opponents, which is better than the ratio in the past (hovering between .5 and 1.5 more per game).  If they can keep this up, it will add another dynamic to this team that hasn't been there in recent memory. 

[John Gleich]

Interesting article in the SP Journal about Coach Semling and Coach Egner's recruiting styles.  LINK

According to the story, Egner gets the best players available and modifies what they're doing to match the players and Coach Semling only recruits players that would fit well in the previously defined system.

What do you guys think of that?  It seems to me like you'd want to get the absolute best players possible and mold the program around them... If there's an outstanding player, then it seems like a no-brainer to try to get him and utilize him in the best way possible.

Then again, if you look at the Point system, it relies on lots of parts, not just on one guy.  That's how they've been successful... if you shut down option A, B, and C, options D and E kill you.  That's what Oshkosh will run into this year... when Marsh is hampered, they're going to lose.

Considering the success of both programs it would seem that there is more than one way to recruit and be successfull on the floor. 

That's true, but the success has been limited to the conference, or at the very least, regional scale.  Now, to be true, Point's been slotted in the toughest brackets in the NCAA tournament (as have the other WIAC reps in recent memory), but I wonder about other successful programs (namely Platteville in the 90's).  Which way did they go?  Did they recruit the best and mold what the team did, or just recruit the guys that would fit well inside the already established system?


Here's an interesting (unrelated) tidbit I just noticed.  EC is playing Puget Sound and SJU at Oshkosh this weekend... and they turn around and come right back to Kolf next Wednesday to open the conference season. 

[badgerwarhawk]

The WARHAWKS defeat Wisconsin Lutheran 96-66 to go to 3-0 on the season.  The teams traded the lead for the first five minutes when WW went up by three points 10-7 and never trailed.  Behind 63.6% shooting and a 18-10 rebound advantage WHITEWATER built the lead to twenty-one points, 50-29, by halftime.  WLC never was closer than eighteen points in the second half and WHITEWATER led by a high of thirty-one points before the game ended.

Dustin Mitchell led all scorers with 22 points.  Mike Bendall added 14 points, Nolan Free 12 points and Alex Edmunds 10 points to round out double figure scorers for the WARHAWKS.  WHITEWATER finished 59% from the floor and dominated the boards with a 44-24 advantage.  Mitchell led with 8 rebounds and Phil Negri added 7 in addition to 10 assists and a pair of three-point baskets.

WHITEWATER will play Loras this Friday and Grinnell on Saturday.    

[buf]

RF loses to UST, 72-71.  RF had 3 shots in the last 10 seconds to win it.

[buf]

UWP drops a home game to Anderson, IN, 65-62.

Superior leading UMD 44-33 at the half

[fredfalcon]

The last 15 minutes, all I saw of the game, was encouraging. Altho Koonkaew and Anderson were held to 1/9 and 2/9 shooting respectively, Hannigan, Voeltz, and Guerin scored 18, 17, 10 pts. respectively, if memory serves. Hannigan and Voeltz had outstanding games, from what I saw.

Tommies are good, but could not hit their throws, missing 5 straight in the final minutes. I don't think they are over rated necessarily, though the  crowd jeered them to that effect after they lost a 13 point lead with less than ten minutes to go.

Nicolai had  19 to lead their scoring, in what was probably not their best outing. But the Falcons had a good deal to do with that.

[John Gleich]

Hmm...  How good was Anderson?  I know their conference, the HCAC can be pretty tough (a bunch of Indiana boys, after all) but they've been down the last few years.  Looks like Anderson was selected #3 in their league this year but got more first place votes (3) than the second place team Defiance (2).  Transylvania (4 first place votes) was picked to repeat again this year.

I thought that Platteville wouldn't drop off too much this year, even though they didn't have Skemp.  I'm not going to say they've completely dropped off... but they've struggled more than I thought they would.

[phoenix_rising]

UWS gets a much-needed boost with a win over UM, Duluth. They were up by as much as 23, and by 21 with fewer than five minutes left. At that point, they simply started eating the clock. Dwight Hill goes down with some kind of ankle/knee/leg thing at one point but returns to the game. Jake Smith was the all-around star of the game; Greg Roeder played another good game. Greg has been less than spectacular the past two years, hampered by injuries, just seemed kind of weak. He's looking bigger and better this year, although he has occasional lapses of attention. I think the best part of the game was that the team seemed more cohesive, and they worked the whole game. UMD was pretty lackluster and I couldn't tell if it was because they are lackluster or because they didn't expect a game. They should have; I think UWS took them to overtime last year.

[badgerwarhawk]

Interesting article in the SP Journal about Coach Semling and Coach Egner's recruiting styles.  LINK

According to the story, Egner gets the best players available and modifies what they're doing to match the players and Coach Semling only recruits players that would fit well in the previously defined system.

What do you guys think of that?  It seems to me like you'd want to get the absolute best players possible and mold the program around them... If there's an outstanding player, then it seems like a no-brainer to try to get him and utilize him in the best way possible.

Then again, if you look at the Point system, it relies on lots of parts, not just on one guy.  That's how they've been successful... if you shut down option A, B, and C, options D and E kill you.  That's what Oshkosh will run into this year... when Marsh is hampered, they're going to lose.

Considering the success of both programs it would seem that there is more than one way to recruit and be successfull on the floor.  

That's true, but the success has been limited to the conference, or at the very least, regional scale.  Now, to be true, Point's been slotted in the toughest brackets in the NCAA tournament (as have the other WIAC reps in recent memory), but I wonder about other successful programs (namely Platteville in the 90's).  Which way did they go?  Did they recruit the best and mold what the team did, or just recruit the guys that would fit well inside the already established system?

Whether it's been Platteville, UW-M or Wisconsin whenever you hear anyone talk about Ryan's recruiting habits they always talk about how he recruits players that he feels will fit into his system.  Not that he avoids talent or athleticism, Devon Harris and more recently VanderBlue for instance,  but he focuses on his perception of how they fit into the system and he runs the pretty much the same system year in and year out.  

[Titan Q]

Hmm...  How good was Anderson?  I know their conference, the HCAC can be pretty tough (a bunch of Indiana boys, after all) but they've been down the last few years.  Looks like Anderson was selected #3 in their league this year but got more first place votes (3) than the second place team Defiance (2).  Transylvania (4 first place votes) was picked to repeat again this year.

I thought that Platteville wouldn't drop off too much this year, even though they didn't have Skemp.  I'm not going to say they've completely dropped off... but they've struggled more than I thought they would.

Anderson only beat Kalamazoo (9-16, 5-9 MIAA last year) by 2 at home.  Yesterday, Manchester (same league as Anderson) beat Kalamazoo by 35.