MBB: Wisconsin Intercollegiate Athletic Conference

[thrunt01]

Another problem is it takes effort to get familiar with the teams. In high school you walk the halls and have class with many of the players and at big colleges you can get all the info you want or need from the TV and internet so at least you feel like you know the players.  That's hard to do at the D3 level, a student may never have class with an athlete

No, the exact opposite is true at most D3 institutions. Sure, the average student might have little or no classroom or social interaction with a basketball player at a WIAC school, since they're almost all mid-sized institutions -- all of them except for UW-Superior have enrollments between 6,500 and 15,000 students. But relatively few D3 schools have student bodies that big. The vast majority of them are more like UW-Superior's 2,700 in size; a student population somewhere between 500 and 3,000 is pretty typical for D3. In other words, most D3 schools are the same size as your average garden-variety suburban high school in terms of student population ... and it's almost impossible to keep from interacting with a basketball player at a school that small, particularly if it's an all-resident or mostly-resident student body.

This is true, my frame of reference is WIAC so I often make the mistake of overgeneralizing. In my defense I am posting on a WIAC board and was trying to mostly address WIAC schools, because of my background, but you are correct and your point is well made and well taken. I still think the biggest reason for a drop in attendance is the bevy of options for the modern college student, particularly in the form of video games. Even during Badger games and even some Packer games if you walk down the hall of a dorm many TVs will have video games on the screen, mostly Call of Duty, instead of the football or basketball game. I enjoy video games but my generation's infatuation with video games saddens me. Long live d3 sports!

[John Gleich]

Another problem is it takes effort to get familiar with the teams. In high school you walk the halls and have class with many of the players and at big colleges you can get all the info you want or need from the TV and internet so at least you feel like you know the players.  That's hard to do at the D3 level, a student may never have class with an athlete

No, the exact opposite is true at most D3 institutions. Sure, the average student might have little or no classroom or social interaction with a basketball player at a WIAC school, since they're almost all mid-sized institutions -- all of them except for UW-Superior have enrollments between 6,500 and 15,000 students. But relatively few D3 schools have student bodies that big. The vast majority of them are more like UW-Superior's 2,700 in size; a student population somewhere between 500 and 3,000 is pretty typical for D3. In other words, most D3 schools are the same size as your average garden-variety suburban high school in terms of student population ... and it's almost impossible to keep from interacting with a basketball player at a school that small, particularly if it's an all-resident or mostly-resident student body.

This is true, my frame of reference is WIAC so I often make the mistake of overgeneralizing. In my defense I am posting on a WIAC board and was trying to mostly address WIAC schools, because of my background, but you are correct and your point is well made and well taken. I still think the biggest reason for a drop in attendance is the bevy of options for the modern college student, particularly in the form of video games. Even during Badger games and even some Packer games if you walk down the hall of a dorm many TVs will have video games on the screen, mostly Call of Duty, instead of the football or basketball game. I enjoy video games but my generation's infatuation with video games saddens me. Long live d3 sports!

It's interesting to me in this whole discussion how certain schools are able to have a culture built around athletic support, like at Calvin and Hope.  Calvin is at about 4000 and Hope is at about 3000... so these are both more than your average D-III as well, but I think that the cultures there lead to more of a community feel (just anecdotal evidence, from people I've spoken with who have gone there).

So I think those two schools are a good mix of the community feel and ample size to be able to fill the arenas... though the arenas have a big part to do with it too.  Both Hope and Calvin built brand new multi-million dollar complexes within the last 5 years or so they're top of the line.

That isn't to say that other arenas aren't top notch... I think every WIAC school has had modifications to their gym to update them to 21st century facilities within the last decade (I haven't been to Superior in about 7 years, so I don't know if they've made improvements, and, now, as I think of it, River Falls still had the wooden bleachers from video I saw last year or the year before) but I know that, in addition to things done about a decade ago, Point and Platteville have both had campaigns to improve facilities even more involved with the court naming, etc.  It would make sense for Eau Claire to do something similar as well.

On top of the facilities they play in, the quality of team certainly matters too. 

Like I said, Point's attendance has fluctuated a decent amount but they've always had at least an average of 1300. 

There are lots of factors going even into that though... how many late-season home games are there?  How many home games are there over Christmas break, especially in January before the students return?  How many big games occur on Wednesdays instead of Saturdays (biggest crowds usually on the weekend).

But all of that aside, it seems reasonable that at least 200-400 more students could come to the games they're on campus for and really pack the place.

[thrunt01]

Another problem is it takes effort to get familiar with the teams. In high school you walk the halls and have class with many of the players and at big colleges you can get all the info you want or need from the TV and internet so at least you feel like you know the players.  That's hard to do at the D3 level, a student may never have class with an athlete

No, the exact opposite is true at most D3 institutions. Sure, the average student might have little or no classroom or social interaction with a basketball player at a WIAC school, since they're almost all mid-sized institutions -- all of them except for UW-Superior have enrollments between 6,500 and 15,000 students. But relatively few D3 schools have student bodies that big. The vast majority of them are more like UW-Superior's 2,700 in size; a student population somewhere between 500 and 3,000 is pretty typical for D3. In other words, most D3 schools are the same size as your average garden-variety suburban high school in terms of student population ... and it's almost impossible to keep from interacting with a basketball player at a school that small, particularly if it's an all-resident or mostly-resident student body.

This is true, my frame of reference is WIAC so I often make the mistake of overgeneralizing. In my defense I am posting on a WIAC board and was trying to mostly address WIAC schools, because of my background, but you are correct and your point is well made and well taken. I still think the biggest reason for a drop in attendance is the bevy of options for the modern college student, particularly in the form of video games. Even during Badger games and even some Packer games if you walk down the hall of a dorm many TVs will have video games on the screen, mostly Call of Duty, instead of the football or basketball game. I enjoy video games but my generation's infatuation with video games saddens me. Long live d3 sports!

It's interesting to me in this whole discussion how certain schools are able to have a culture built around athletic support, like at Calvin and Hope.  Calvin is at about 4000 and Hope is at about 3000... so these are both more than your average D-III as well, but I think that the cultures there lead to more of a community feel (just anecdotal evidence, from people I've spoken with who have gone there).

So I think those two schools are a good mix of the community feel and ample size to be able to fill the arenas... though the arenas have a big part to do with it too.  Both Hope and Calvin built brand new multi-million dollar complexes within the last 5 years or so they're top of the line.

That isn't to say that other arenas aren't top notch... I think every WIAC school has had modifications to their gym to update them to 21st century facilities within the last decade (I haven't been to Superior in about 7 years, so I don't know if they've made improvements, and, now, as I think of it, River Falls still had the wooden bleachers from video I saw last year or the year before) but I know that, in addition to things done about a decade ago, Point and Platteville have both had campaigns to improve facilities even more involved with the court naming, etc.  It would make sense for Eau Claire to do something similar as well.

On top of the facilities they play in, the quality of team certainly matters too. 

Like I said, Point's attendance has fluctuated a decent amount but they've always had at least an average of 1300. 

There are lots of factors going even into that though... how many late-season home games are there?  How many home games are there over Christmas break, especially in January before the students return?  How many big games occur on Wednesdays instead of Saturdays (biggest crowds usually on the weekend).

But all of that aside, it seems reasonable that at least 200-400 more students could come to the games they're on campus for and really pack the place.

Kolf Sports Center is in need of some pretty serious upgrades.  Even more than the basketball court the indoor track, which hosts one of the best M&W track and field teams in the country, is in more dire need of an upgrade. Most facilities in the conference are great but Kolf is one of a few that needs improvement. I think the wooden bleacher standard is a good one, if a facility still has wood bleachers it probably needs an upgrade.

[bulk19]

Another problem is it takes effort to get familiar with the teams. In high school you walk the halls and have class with many of the players and at big colleges you can get all the info you want or need from the TV and internet so at least you feel like you know the players.  That's hard to do at the D3 level, a student may never have class with an athlete

No, the exact opposite is true at most D3 institutions. Sure, the average student might have little or no classroom or social interaction with a basketball player at a WIAC school, since they're almost all mid-sized institutions -- all of them except for UW-Superior have enrollments between 6,500 and 15,000 students. But relatively few D3 schools have student bodies that big. The vast majority of them are more like UW-Superior's 2,700 in size; a student population somewhere between 500 and 3,000 is pretty typical for D3. In other words, most D3 schools are the same size as your average garden-variety suburban high school in terms of student population ... and it's almost impossible to keep from interacting with a basketball player at a school that small, particularly if it's an all-resident or mostly-resident student body.

This is true, my frame of reference is WIAC so I often make the mistake of overgeneralizing. In my defense I am posting on a WIAC board and was trying to mostly address WIAC schools, because of my background, but you are correct and your point is well made and well taken. I still think the biggest reason for a drop in attendance is the bevy of options for the modern college student, particularly in the form of video games. Even during Badger games and even some Packer games if you walk down the hall of a dorm many TVs will have video games on the screen, mostly Call of Duty, instead of the football or basketball game. I enjoy video games but my generation's infatuation with video games saddens me. Long live d3 sports!

Continued interesting posts on attendance. I'll chime in again, but are others getting bored with this topic?

Yep, Good point by thrun01. I sadly say this, but I agree that video games and technology (cell phones, etc.) do, for better or worse, occupy a lot of time in the modern student's life...

I do admit to being a freshman (able to drink, since it was 18 at the time) who, pre bar time, plugged a few quarters into slots in the video arcade on the main strip... (Donkey Kong, Centipede and Pac Man! Ha. Man, that's old school, eh? And yet, there are some posters here who probably remember and consider the electric typewriter as being a big deal! Ha. )... But my extent and ownership with technology and video games were the classic handheld Mattel Basketball and Colleco Football games. I admit I also bought a Nintendo later in life - When TECMO Bowl first came out...

I do not, however, own a cell phone, BlackBerry, Wii, Kindle or any sort of handheld devices kids and adults have today... But I do admit they are, if not a convenience (and that's debatable  ,
quite addictive and do provide entertainment... So who am I to be critical of how kids in college spend their free time, relaxing and taking study breaks?

I just think they should go see their teams play, too!

And, although this is the men's forum, the UWEC women's team (which has led the country in D3 attendance 6 times in the last 15 or so years) does quite well in trying to bring in the students, with the help of some fine sponsors...

Wednesday night was a good example - a study break opportunity, and labeled as such, with opportunities for the students to win prizes during the game, including a TV... Coach Englund makes it a point, too, to let the fans, of all ages, know how much she and the team appreciate their support, too; she often acknowledges that support in her media interviews. That's a small detail, but one that doesn't go unnoticed, and makes fans realize that someone is saying thanks for spending $ on a ticket to come watch them play.... (But students don't have to pay, so there's no excuse!  )

[frodotwo]

Another problem is it takes effort to get familiar with the teams. In high school you walk the halls and have class with many of the players and at big colleges you can get all the info you want or need from the TV and internet so at least you feel like you know the players.  That's hard to do at the D3 level, a student may never have class with an athlete

No, the exact opposite is true at most D3 institutions. Sure, the average student might have little or no classroom or social interaction with a basketball player at a WIAC school, since they're almost all mid-sized institutions -- all of them except for UW-Superior have enrollments between 6,500 and 15,000 students. But relatively few D3 schools have student bodies that big. The vast majority of them are more like UW-Superior's 2,700 in size; a student population somewhere between 500 and 3,000 is pretty typical for D3. In other words, most D3 schools are the same size as your average garden-variety suburban high school in terms of student population ... and it's almost impossible to keep from interacting with a basketball player at a school that small, particularly if it's an all-resident or mostly-resident student body.

This is true, my frame of reference is WIAC so I often make the mistake of overgeneralizing. In my defense I am posting on a WIAC board and was trying to mostly address WIAC schools, because of my background, but you are correct and your point is well made and well taken. I still think the biggest reason for a drop in attendance is the bevy of options for the modern college student, particularly in the form of video games. Even during Badger games and even some Packer games if you walk down the hall of a dorm many TVs will have video games on the screen, mostly Call of Duty, instead of the football or basketball game. I enjoy video games but my generation's infatuation with video games saddens me. Long live d3 sports!

Continued interesting posts on attendance. I'll chime in again, but are others getting bored with this topic?

Yep, Good point by thrun01. I sadly say this, but I agree that video games and technology (cell phones, etc.) do, for better or worse, occupy a lot of time in the modern student's life...

I do admit to being a freshman (able to drink, since it was 18 at the time) who, pre bar time, plugged a few quarters into slots in the video arcade on the main strip... (Donkey Kong, Centipede and Pac Man! Ha. Man, that's old school, eh? And yet, there are some posters here who probably remember and consider the electric typewriter as being a big deal! Ha. )... But my extent and ownership with technology and video games were the classic handheld Mattel Basketball and Colleco Football games. I admit I also bought a Nintendo later in life - When TECMO Bowl first came out...

I do not, however, own a cell phone, BlackBerry, Wii, Kindle or any sort of handheld devices kids and adults have today... But I do admit they are, if not a convenience (and that's debatable  ,
quite addictive and do provide entertainment... So who am I to be critical of how kids in college spend their free time, relaxing and taking study breaks?

I just think they should go see their teams play, too!

And, although this is the men's forum, the UWEC women's team (which has led the country in D3 attendance 6 times in the last 15 or so years) does quite well in trying to bring in the students, with the help of some fine sponsors...

Wednesday night was a good example - a study break opportunity, and labeled as such, with opportunities for the students to win prizes during the game, including a TV... Coach Englund makes it a point, too, to let the fans, of all ages, know how much she and the team appreciate their support, too; she often acknowledges that support in her media interviews. That's a small detail, but one that doesn't go unnoticed, and makes fans realize that someone is saying thanks for spending $ on a ticket to come watch them play.... (But students don't have to pay, so there's no excuse!  )

They study sometimes too don't they? 

I don't know if there is someone at each school that passes along information to the student body to try and interest them in supporting their school athletic program, but I do remember a couple of year ago (Matt Moses' senior year) Point had a good year with student attendance/participation. The student manager that year was instrumental in getting them to show up and fire up. That's been lacking this year. It seems that those student fans all graduated and left behind little experience.

[fredfalcon]

RF 98, North Central U. 65. Falcons looked sharp first half as they took a 54-33 lead. Then play degenerated into occasional sloppiness. Palmer w/20, Zach Peterson w/15, Shane Manor w/12 led scorers. Palmer may have had enuf rbds. for a double/double, but not sure.

NCU small, quick, but out manned.

[fredfalcon]

Box score reveals a season low 8 t.o.'s. Zach Peterson, reserve center, had a career performance: 9 rbds, 4-5 shooting to add to his 15 pts. Manor and Palmer each had 9 rbds. 11 guys had double figure minutes.

[Falcons04]

A couple other interesting things after looking at the RF vs. North Central box score:

Shane Manor finished with only 12 pts but also 9 rebs 8 assists 4 blocks and only 1 TO.......nice all around line

RF outrebounds NC 54-35 and it actually seemed worse watching the game. 

RF had 27 total assists......probably their highest total in a long time

[emerging1]

Got a chance to watch the UWSP game (between class prep).  Yes, some of us at UWSP do study, at least Master's students.  Nice to see the even scoring attack of the big three!  JB seemed to get a little back on track but still seems to occasionally take himself out of the game when he gets frustrated (5 TOs).  Bench still concerns me - both lack of production and depth.  Bring on St. Thomas!

[OshDude]

Another problem is it takes effort to get familiar with the teams. In high school you walk the halls and have class with many of the players and at big colleges you can get all the info you want or need from the TV and internet so at least you feel like you know the players.  That's hard to do at the D3 level, a student may never have class with an athlete

No, the exact opposite is true at most D3 institutions. Sure, the average student might have little or no classroom or social interaction with a basketball player at a WIAC school, since they're almost all mid-sized institutions -- all of them except for UW-Superior have enrollments between 6,500 and 15,000 students. But relatively few D3 schools have student bodies that big. The vast majority of them are more like UW-Superior's 2,700 in size; a student population somewhere between 500 and 3,000 is pretty typical for D3. In other words, most D3 schools are the same size as your average garden-variety suburban high school in terms of student population ... and it's almost impossible to keep from interacting with a basketball player at a school that small, particularly if it's an all-resident or mostly-resident student body.

This is true, my frame of reference is WIAC so I often make the mistake of overgeneralizing. In my defense I am posting on a WIAC board and was trying to mostly address WIAC schools, because of my background, but you are correct and your point is well made and well taken. I still think the biggest reason for a drop in attendance is the bevy of options for the modern college student, particularly in the form of video games. Even during Badger games and even some Packer games if you walk down the hall of a dorm many TVs will have video games on the screen, mostly Call of Duty, instead of the football or basketball game. I enjoy video games but my generation's infatuation with video games saddens me. Long live d3 sports!

It's interesting to me in this whole discussion how certain schools are able to have a culture built around athletic support, like at Calvin and Hope.  Calvin is at about 4000 and Hope is at about 3000... so these are both more than your average D-III as well, but I think that the cultures there lead to more of a community feel (just anecdotal evidence, from people I've spoken with who have gone there).

So I think those two schools are a good mix of the community feel and ample size to be able to fill the arenas... though the arenas have a big part to do with it too.  Both Hope and Calvin built brand new multi-million dollar complexes within the last 5 years or so they're top of the line.

That isn't to say that other arenas aren't top notch... I think every WIAC school has had modifications to their gym to update them to 21st century facilities within the last decade (I haven't been to Superior in about 7 years, so I don't know if they've made improvements, and, now, as I think of it, River Falls still had the wooden bleachers from video I saw last year or the year before) but I know that, in addition to things done about a decade ago, Point and Platteville have both had campaigns to improve facilities even more involved with the court naming, etc.  It would make sense for Eau Claire to do something similar as well.

On top of the facilities they play in, the quality of team certainly matters too. 

Like I said, Point's attendance has fluctuated a decent amount but they've always had at least an average of 1300. 

There are lots of factors going even into that though... how many late-season home games are there?  How many home games are there over Christmas break, especially in January before the students return?  How many big games occur on Wednesdays instead of Saturdays (biggest crowds usually on the weekend).

But all of that aside, it seems reasonable that at least 200-400 more students could come to the games they're on campus for and really pack the place.

Kolf Sports Center is in need of some pretty serious upgrades.  Even more than the basketball court the indoor track, which hosts one of the best M&W track and field teams in the country, is in more dire need of an upgrade. Most facilities in the conference are great but Kolf is one of a few that needs improvement. I think the wooden bleacher standard is a good one, if a facility still has wood bleachers it probably needs an upgrade.

I was told Kolf is scheduled for an upgrade in the near future. I don't remember the time frame, but the track, bleachers and storage capacity are targets of the upgrade as part of a proposed $3-4 million project.

Kolf renovation was listed as the number one priority in the university's Facilities Master Plan. For various reasons, other projects have been tackled before Kolf. But I know people in the Oshkosh administration and athletic department have been concerned about the bleachers for years.

Depending on the timing and scope of the project, Albee is an option for court space. Albee was resurfaced recently.

[Greek Tragedy]

I like the wood bleachers better than the plastic bleachers at Quandt.

[OshDude]

I like the wood bleachers better than the plastic bleachers at Quandt.

The UW System approved the bleacher replacement at a proposed cost of $1,447,000 plus another $16k or so for a planning committee, so I hope you like the new ones better!

[frodotwo]

I like the wood bleachers better than the plastic bleachers at Quandt.

I've almost fallen into the gaps at your feet a few times in those bleachers. Lost a few sodas too.

[John Gleich]

I like the wood bleachers better than the plastic bleachers at Quandt.

I've almost fallen into the gaps at your feet a few times in those bleachers. Lost a few sodas too.

I remember old high school gyms where this would happen... and relived it a couple years ago when I went to Kolf too!  The plastic bleachers are certainly safer, though they do cut the capacity down quite a bit.

It'll be interesting to see what Kolf looks like with those new bleachers... the old ones go up pretty high.

[chmarx]

Brian Carroll loves everything old fashioned, including wooden bleachers.

I prefer seating with a back, which helps keep MY back healthy.