MBB: Wisconsin Intercollegiate Athletic Conference

[Just Bill]

Must be summer re-runs. It's been a while but wcbsas hasn't changed. Show up. Bag on Point (and particularly on Semling). Run away with "I have my reasons" when challenged. I've seen this show before. Ax isn't ground to the handle yet, I guess.

[wcbsas]

Must be summer re-runs. It's been a while but wcbsas hasn't changed. Show up. Bag on Point (and particularly on Semling). Run away with "I have my reasons" when challenged. I've seen this show before. Ax isn't ground to the handle yet, I guess.

Whatever ... I am not bagging on Point.  It is a great program, in fact probably THE premier program in the conference.  Its got a great history, great players past and present and good to great facilities. 

I don't like Semling.  My guess is you don't like me.  That's the way things go sometimes.

My evaluation of Semling is (besides the personal things) that if you put him in Superior or Platteville ... would he be as successful as he is now ... and my opinion is no!  Its is also my opinion that he would not on a consistent basis be as successful as Gard, Combs (yes I know he's now at D2 Wayne State) or Silvering at their respective schools.  If you put Gard, Combs or Silvering at UWSP would they be as successful if not more than Semling?  My opinion is yes.

I'm never going to convince you that I am correct but am I not entitled to an opinion?

Besides this all started with my evaluation that the transfer of Heuer will be a good thing for Point.

[Just Bill]

Of course you're entitled to an opinion. You just don't post often and when you do you are usually banging on Point and then you don't care to share any additional insight. The last post you made was finally the most informative thing you've ever said here. The hit and run business gets tiresome time and time again. I think I'm entitled to my opinion too.

[wcbsas]

Of course you're entitled to an opinion. You just don't post often and when you do you are usually banging on Point and then you don't care to share any additional insight. The last post you made was finally the most informative thing you've ever said here. The hit and run business gets tiresome time and time again. I think I'm entitled to my opinion too.

FWIW I do not consider myself a hit and run poster.  I will respond and participate whenever the moments present themselves.

I do not "bang" on Point.  Point's coach on the other hand ... am not a fan.  I hope you can understand that distinction!

Difference between your posts and mine is you are attacking me.  Never once have I directed anything towards you

[John Gleich]

Of course you're entitled to an opinion. You just don't post often and when you do you are usually banging on Point and then you don't care to share any additional insight. The last post you made was finally the most informative thing you've ever said here. The hit and run business gets tiresome time and time again. I think I'm entitled to my opinion too.

FWIW I do not consider myself a hit and run poster.  I will respond and participate whenever the moments present themselves.

I do not "bang" on Point.  Point's coach on the other hand ... am not a fan.  I hope you can understand that distinction!

Difference between your posts and mine is you are attacking me.  Never once have I directed anything towards you

I don't think that JB was attacking you. I think he was attacking what he perceived to be your method of posting.


I get the point that you're trying to make about Semling having the advantage of the Stevens Point program going for him, but we haven't seen him anywhere else, so there's really nothing to base this comment off of (except for your personal dislike, which you have made clear but which also may cloud your thoughts on the man).


Semling has the second third (165-41, 80%, just behind Ken Anderson) highest winning percentage in WIAC history. He has the highest winning percentage in Stevens Point history. So, if you put him at another school, would he have the third highest winning percentage? Probably not. But it's not hard to imagine that he would still be winning games at at least a 60% or 65% clip.

We would have to be imagining, though... because there't no data to back up the claim.

Heck, I could claim that he'd actually be BETTER somewhere else. It's all conjecture because he's not going anywhere any time soon.

[wcbsas]

Of course you're entitled to an opinion. You just don't post often and when you do you are usually banging on Point and then you don't care to share any additional insight. The last post you made was finally the most informative thing you've ever said here. The hit and run business gets tiresome time and time again. I think I'm entitled to my opinion too.

FWIW I do not consider myself a hit and run poster.  I will respond and participate whenever the moments present themselves.

I do not "bang" on Point.  Point's coach on the other hand ... am not a fan.  I hope you can understand that distinction!

Difference between your posts and mine is you are attacking me.  Never once have I directed anything towards you

I don't think that JB was attacking you. I think he was attacking what he perceived to be your method of posting.


I get the point that you're trying to make about Semling having the advantage of the Stevens Point program going for him, but we haven't seen him anywhere else, so there's really nothing to base this comment off of (except for your personal dislike, which you have made clear but which also may cloud your thoughts on the man).


Semling has the second third (165-41, 80%, just behind Ken Anderson) highest winning percentage in WIAC history. He has the highest winning percentage in Stevens Point history. So, if you put him at another school, would he have the third highest winning percentage? Probably not. But it's not hard to imagine that he would still be winning games at at least a 60% or 65% clip.

We would have to be imagining, though... because there't no data to back up the claim.

Heck, I could claim that he'd actually be BETTER somewhere else. It's all conjecture because he's not going anywhere any time soon.

Bret Bielema (75.9%) has a better winning percentage at UW than Barry Alvarez (61.5%), Paterno (74.9%) and Nick Saban (72.2%).  Does that make him a better coach?

Is Point good because of Semling or is he good because of Point?

Is much of Semling's success to do with the legacy that preceded him?  I understand it is an undefendable argument but it is also an argument that is not difficult to understand either!

[badgerwarhawk]

Is Point good because of Semling or is he good because of Point?

As is often the case I suspect that it's a little of both.  UW-Stevens Point's program has a lot going for it.  The legacy and their facilities amongest others.  Semling definitely knows what he's doing.  He knows his X and Os and he knows how to recruit.  I personally think that if you put him at another school he would still be successful.  Perhaps not to the extent that he has been at Point but successful none the less.   Like I said he definitely knows how to do it.

[John Gleich]

Is Point good because of Semling or is he good because of Point?

Is much of Semling's success to do with the legacy that preceded him?  I understand it is an undefendable argument but it is also an argument that is not difficult to understand either!

I'm just saying that the argument isn't worth the effort because it's undefendable.

You could make the same argument about Coach Miller at Whitewater. Or anyone else. There are a lot more variables that go into success than the name on the front of the uniform.


It just seems like your dislike for Coach Semling is distracting your ability to see his own accomplishments, apart from inheriting an already winning program.


Just remember, Coach Semling won the national title with all of his own players. Nobody who was on the team in 09-10 that was recruited under the Bennett (and you could make a strong argument that even the guys who were recruited during Bennett's last two years were actually recruited at least in part by Semling).

I think that you're putting too much weight into the coaching anyway. Especially in college, you recruit the guys who play for you and they're the ones who earn the accolades. Yes, a coach has a hand in shaping them and making the moves to put them in a position to success, but it's ultimately the players on the court who are doing the work that wins the games and championships. I'm not trying to downplay the coach's overall effect. But I think that there's a lot more that goes into the success of a program in terms of what happens in the off season.  It's recruiting the right players and it's also the players putting in the time, energy, and effort to transform their games.

[wcbsas]

Is Point good because of Semling or is he good because of Point?

Is much of Semling's success to do with the legacy that preceded him?  I understand it is an undefendable argument but it is also an argument that is not difficult to understand either!

I think that you're putting too much weight into the coaching anyway. Especially in college, you recruit the guys who play for you and they're the ones who earn the accolades. Yes, a coach has a hand in shaping them and making the moves to put them in a position to success, but it's ultimately the players on the court who are doing the work that wins the games and championships. I'm not trying to downplay the coach's overall effect. But I think that there's a lot more that goes into the success of a program in terms of what happens in the off season.  It's recruiting the right players and it's also the players putting in the time, energy, and effort to transform their games.

I agree with you 100%.

Do you think it is easier to recruit a player to Stevens Point then say Superior or River Falls?

If you look at Mark Miller's list of top seniors (as one barometer) for example, UWSP consistently gets more players on this list than nearly every other program in the WIAC.  And some of that is due to recruiting efforts but I suspect Gard and Silverling and Miller and all the others put in as much time recruiting as Semling. 

The only WIAC school that comes close to matching UWSP for basketball positives is UWW.  Location, fan support, money, facilities, history ... Every other school has at least one significant "uncontrollable" negative that is hard to combat in recruiting.

[Gregory Sager]

I think that you're putting too much weight into the coaching anyway. Especially in college, you recruit the guys who play for you and they're the ones who earn the accolades. Yes, a coach has a hand in shaping them and making the moves to put them in a position to success, but it's ultimately the players on the court who are doing the work that wins the games and championships. I'm not trying to downplay the coach's overall effect. But I think that there's a lot more that goes into the success of a program in terms of what happens in the off season.  It's recruiting the right players and it's also the players putting in the time, energy, and effort to transform their games.

Yes, but it all starts with recruiting. I've heard it said by coaches that recruiting is anywhere from 70% to 90% of their job in terms of importance. You can be the greatest teacher of the game ever, a great x's-and-o's guy, have a keen grasp of how to scout and how to break down film, and manage a game like you were born to do it ... but if you don't have the horses, you won't win.

Coaches are the ones who go out and get the players. The vast majority of good players don't simply flock of their own accord to UWSP, or to UWW, or to Wash U, or to Amherst, or any other D3 school, based upon the school's tradition, facilities, academics, cost, or anything else. They have to be recruited. And that, if for no other reason, is why the coach is an absolutely indispensible factor in a winning program. If he's not bringing in good players in the first place, it's not gonna be a winning program.

[linde4]

Just remember, Coach Semling won the national title with all of his own players. Nobody who was on the team in 09-10 that was recruited under the Bennett (and you could make a strong argument that even the guys who were recruited during Bennett's last two years were actually recruited at least in part by Semling).

Long time WIAC fan and rare poster, but love reading what you guys have to say... slight question on your post PointSpecial: your referring to the underclassman of Bennett's last two teams, correct?  Semling was definately not around to recruit Jason Kalsow and I doubt much went into getting Nick Bennett other than Jack walking over to admissions on his lunch hour with Nick's paperwork.  Certainly other quality players on those two teams, but you get my point. 

Semling has earned everything since then, though.

[cubs]

It's funny how negative posts can get when you have a son go to a particular school and not get any playing time....  Maybe that is why coaches don't have the longevity that they used to. 

Too many helicopter parents!!!!

[wcbsas]

It's funny how negative posts can get when you have a son go to a particular school and not get any playing time....  Maybe that is why coaches don't have the longevity that they used to. 

Too many helicopter parents!!!!

Not sure if this is directed towards me or not (I suspect it was) ... but if it is ... it totaly doesn't apply.  My perspective comes from that of a high school coach.

[John Gleich]

Just remember, Coach Semling won the national title with all of his own players. Nobody who was on the team in 09-10 that was recruited under the Bennett (and you could make a strong argument that even the guys who were recruited during Bennett's last two years were actually recruited at least in part by Semling).

Long time WIAC fan and rare poster, but love reading what you guys have to say... slight question on your post PointSpecial: your referring to the underclassman of Bennett's last two teams, correct?  Semling was definately not around to recruit Jason Kalsow and I doubt much went into getting Nick Bennett other than Jack walking over to admissions on his lunch hour with Nick's paperwork.  Certainly other quality players on those two teams, but you get my point. 

Semling has earned everything since then, though.

I was referring to the guys that Coach Semling inherited when Jack Bennett retired. The some of the key contributors the next few years were guys like Bauer, Krull, and Hicklin, and they were around before Semling. But El-Amin, Beamish, Jenkins, Moses, Nick Krull, Hurd, etc, those were all Semling guys.

Ken Koelbl helped recruit Bennett, Kalsow, Relerford, Maus, me (well, no, not really me, I transferred).

[Gregory Sager]

Ken Koelbl helped recruit Bennett, Kalsow, Relerford, Maus, me (well, no, not really me, I transferred).

Transfers are sometimes recruited. It all depends upon the transfer's circumstances.