MBB: Wisconsin Intercollegiate Athletic Conference

[John Gleich]

The rest of us are simply giving up. 

I imagine being a non-Stevens Point fan on the men's basketball board feels a lot like being a non-Whitewater fan on the football board.

Lord knows both are these are true but as mentioned by badger warhawk it takes two to tango so while I sometimes get worn down on both boards with the talk being dominated by the top programs in each sport but I totally get it and hey any talk about this conference is good talk in my opinion.

Part of the difficulty here, though, is that it's lots easier talking about whatcha know about. And since there are lots of Point fans here (and WW fans on the football board), then there are more posts with more information about those particular programs. So, because others know at least a bit about Point or WW, then they react to the statements, and the conversation starts.

It's been difficult with Oshkosh, especially last year, because there wasn't much positive to say. They had some pretty good games like the 2OT loss to RF and the OT loss to Point, but Oshy just wasn't able to seal the deal.

And even now, they're still without a coach... so it's hard to say where the direction of the program for this upcoming program will be.


This is going to be an interesting year, across the league, I think. I can't remember a year where there were 3 new coaches in the league in the same season. What will that mean for the non-conference success in the league? If Oshkosh, Eau Claire, and Superior sputter early as they're learning how to play with each other and under the new coach, that could come back to hurt potential pool C teams out of the league. We've had 2 teams in the tournament the last 5 years and 3 teams in two of those years (last season and 2009).

Part of the criteria for selection is the Opponent's winning percentage and the Opponent's Opponent's winning percentage... and if your league takes care of business in the non-conference, then both of those numbers will improve, as the bulk of your games are in-conference. The parity in the league has improved the last few seasons, I think... about a decade ago, anyone could truly beat anyone else on a given night... but for a few years there, there was a clear division between the top teams and the bottom teams. The separation was less last year than it had been in the recent past.

[bulk19]

The rest of us are simply giving up. 

I imagine being a non-Stevens Point fan on the men's basketball board feels a lot like being a non-Whitewater fan on the football board.

Lord knows both are these are true but as mentioned by badger warhawk it takes two to tango so while I sometimes get worn down on both boards with the talk being dominated by the top programs in each sport but I totally get it and hey any talk about this conference is good talk in my opinion.

Part of the difficulty here, though, is that it's lots easier talking about whatcha know about. And since there are lots of Point fans here (and WW fans on the football board), then there are more posts with more information about those particular programs. So, because others know at least a bit about Point or WW, then they react to the statements, and the conversation starts.

It's been difficult with Oshkosh, especially last year, because there wasn't much positive to say. They had some pretty good games like the 2OT loss to RF and the OT loss to Point, but Oshy just wasn't able to seal the deal.

And even now, they're still without a coach... so it's hard to say where the direction of the program for this upcoming program will be.


This is going to be an interesting year, across the league, I think. I can't remember a year where there were 3 new coaches in the league in the same season. What will that mean for the non-conference success in the league? If Oshkosh, Eau Claire, and Superior sputter early as they're learning how to play with each other and under the new coach, that could come back to hurt potential pool C teams out of the league. We've had 2 teams in the tournament the last 5 years and 3 teams in two of those years (last season and 2009).

Part of the criteria for selection is the Opponent's winning percentage and the Opponent's Opponent's winning percentage... and if your league takes care of business in the non-conference, then both of those numbers will improve, as the bulk of your games are in-conference. The parity in the league has improved the last few seasons, I think... about a decade ago, anyone could truly beat anyone else on a given night... but for a few years there, there was a clear division between the top teams and the bottom teams. The separation was less last year than it had been in the recent past.

Anybody who uses bulk in a post, be it Whitewater football or Pointer hoops, gets a +k for the day! 

[wcbsas]

The rest of us are simply giving up. 

I imagine being a non-Stevens Point fan on the men's basketball board feels a lot like being a non-Whitewater fan on the football board.

Lord knows both are these are true but as mentioned by badger warhawk it takes two to tango so while I sometimes get worn down on both boards with the talk being dominated by the top programs in each sport but I totally get it and hey any talk about this conference is good talk in my opinion.

Part of the difficulty here, though, is that it's lots easier talking about whatcha know about. And since there are lots of Point fans here (and WW fans on the football board), then there are more posts with more information about those particular programs. So, because others know at least a bit about Point or WW, then they react to the statements, and the conversation starts.

It's been difficult with Oshkosh, especially last year, because there wasn't much positive to say. They had some pretty good games like the 2OT loss to RF and the OT loss to Point, but Oshy just wasn't able to seal the deal.

And even now, they're still without a coach... so it's hard to say where the direction of the program for this upcoming program will be.


This is going to be an interesting year, across the league, I think. I can't remember a year where there were 3 new coaches in the league in the same season. What will that mean for the non-conference success in the league? If Oshkosh, Eau Claire, and Superior sputter early as they're learning how to play with each other and under the new coach, that could come back to hurt potential pool C teams out of the league. We've had 2 teams in the tournament the last 5 years and 3 teams in two of those years (last season and 2009).

Part of the criteria for selection is the Opponent's winning percentage and the Opponent's Opponent's winning percentage... and if your league takes care of business in the non-conference, then both of those numbers will improve, as the bulk of your games are in-conference. The parity in the league has improved the last few seasons, I think... about a decade ago, anyone could truly beat anyone else on a given night... but for a few years there, there was a clear division between the top teams and the bottom teams. The separation was less last year than it had been in the recent past.

The other part of the equation though is WIAC teams tend to put on average more talent on the court than the majority of its non-conference opponents.

Are there exceptions such as Carroll, St. Norbert's, St. Thomas ... sure ... but Wisconsin's lack of D2 school nearby, the fact that the WIAC schools are public institutions (meaning bigger rosters) versus the plethora of private institutions in D3 and the fact that all three of these programs have a decent core returning would presume that their performance in non-conference should be OK.  Not great but OK.

[wcbsas]

On a related note - I know the kid Josh Drinkall who is a candidate for the UW-Superior position.  Referring to him as a kid probably dates myself as an crusty old fart nevertheless I think Drinkall is a good candidate for the position, a lot like Dave Buchanon, high energy, aggressive recruiter - really good experience with Gustavus and Winona State.

[badgerwarhawk]

Admittedly I haven't researched this but I'd be surprised if the WIAC basketball rosters are any larger than most D3 programs.   

[wcbsas]

Admittedly I haven't researched this but I'd be surprised if the WIAC basketball rosters are any larger than most D3 programs.

While it doesn't commonly happen in the WIAC you never hear about grey-shirts at schools like St. Norbert's because of the cost of tuition at that school as compared to a WIAC school.  Didn't Dan Tillema get an extra year of eligibility thru this?

I also think you have a greater roster turnover at WIAC schools because they can afford to take more risks and chances with kids.

[John Gleich]

Admittedly I haven't researched this but I'd be surprised if the WIAC basketball rosters are any larger than most D3 programs.

While it doesn't commonly happen in the WIAC you never hear about grey-shirts at schools like St. Norbert's because of the cost of tuition at that school as compared to a WIAC school.  Didn't Dan Tillema get an extra year of eligibility thru this?

I also think you have a greater roster turnover at WIAC schools because they can afford to take more risks and chances with kids.

No, Dan Tillema didn't get an extra year of eligibility. He was at UMD in 08-09 and played for Point in 09-10, 10-11, and 11-12.


And I understand the logic behind the argument about roster size and tuition and stuff... but I just don't think that it's true.


I think you'd be surprised at the roster size of other D-III schools.

IWU - 18 (though they've got 20 guys in their team picture... for example, #4 is in the picture but not on the roester)
http://iwusports.com/roster.aspx?path=mbball&

Hope - 16 on the varsity roster, 11 on the JV roster (2 guys listed on both) for a total of 25
http://www.hope.edu/athletics/mbb/mbbrost.html

Wheaton - 19
http://athletics.wheaton.edu/roster.aspx?path=mbball&

Calvin - 15 on the varisty roster, 12 on the JV roster (3 guys listed on both) for a total of 24
http://www.calvin.edu/sports/mens/basketball/roster.htm

Wooster - 17
http://www.woosterathletics.com/sports/mbkb/2011-12/roster

Wittenberg - 23
http://www4.wittenberg.edu/news/athletics/mbasketball/roster11-12off.html

St. Norbert - 16
http://www.snc.edu/athletics/basketballm/roster.html?s=2011-12

St. Thomas - 31
http://www.tommiesports.com/mbb/roster/

St. John - 31
http://www.gojohnnies.com/roster.aspx?path=mbball&

Williams - 15
http://athletics.williams.edu/sports/mbkb/2011-12/Roster

Amherst - 20
https://www.amherst.edu/athletics/teams/winter/basketball-m/roster

Virginia Wesleyan - 22
http://vwcathletics.com/sports/mbkb/2011-12/roster

Carthage - 25
http://athletics.carthage.edu/roster.aspx?path=mbball

Beloit - 18
http://www.beloit.edu/bucs/mbasketball/roster/

Puget Sound - 18
http://www.loggerathletics.com/sports/mbkb/2011-12/roster

Rockford - 23
http://www.rockford.edu/?Athletics_mbbroster

Wash U - 22
http://bearsports.wustl.edu/Sports/BasketballMen/Pages/roster.aspx

Ripon - 13
http://ripon.edu/athletics/mbasketball/2012-13/2012-13_roster.html

Lawrence - 16
http://lawrence.edu/athletics/mbasketball/roster.shtml

Benedictine - 14
http://www.benueagles.com/roster.aspx?path=mbb&

Concordia-Mequon - 22
http://cuwfalcons.com/sports/mbkb/2011-12/roster

Marian - 15
http://www.sabreathletics.com/roster.aspx?path=mbball

Coe - 25
http://www.coeathletics.com/roster/0/1.php

Buena Vista - 26
http://www.bvu.edu/athletics/sports/mbasketball/roster.dot

Linfield - 16
http://www.linfield.edu/sports/roster.php?sport=mbkb

Whitworth - 17
http://www.whitworthpirates.com/sports/mbkb/2011-12/roster


So, this is 26 programs. I didn't pick any of the deliberately, if I thought of a school, I looked up the roster. (all of these 11-12 rosters).  The average is 20.4 and the median is 19.5. standard deviation is 4.93.

Here's the WIAC:

Whitewater - 14
Stevens Point - 14
La Crosse - 17
Stout - 13
Oshkosh - 11
Superior - 17
Platteville - 18
Eau Claire - 16
River Falls - 14

The mean for the WIAC is 14.89. The median is 14 and the standard deviation is 2.26.

If anything, it looks like the WIAC is running at a disadvantage in terms of roster size. I don't think that tuition amount has anything to do with it... I think that the level of funding for the programs does and it could very wel be that the budget woes of the U of Wisconsin system are filtering down to the athletic programs.

I talked about roster size and practices... and how much easier it is to run team-based activities such as situations and scrimmages when you have 15 or more guys.

I honestly don't know how programs like UST or St Johns do it... if they hold separate practices with the JV and the Varsity... but I can't really imagine a college team with THAT many guys. It would be almost like a summer camp with so many guys running around.

[John Gleich]

I wonder if we'll be hearing on the Oshkosh job soon.

Per the Van Dellen retirement notice, it said that they hoped to have a new coach announced by July 1:

http://www.wiacsports.com/news/2012/3/29/MBB_0329124756.aspx

Oshkosh named the new womens coach on Wednesday:

http://www.wiacsports.com/news/2012/6/27/WBB_0627121525.aspx

and Schumacher stepped down the day after Van Dellen retired, so the search period has been essentially the same.

[badgerwarhawk]

The 2012 National Champion WARHAWKS were recognized Saturday night by the Milwaukee Brewers prior to their game with the D'backs.  Head coach Pat Miller threw out the ceremonial first pitch.

It was reported to be a strike.

[RTF]

Does anyone else have a theory as to why the search at UWO has dragged on this long?  Someone I spoke with at a high school tournament recently put the blame not on the AD, but on the Vice Chancellor for Student Affairs.  Says she is responsible for this long and tedious process. 

Same person said this wouldn't happen at a place like UWW because their AD answers directly to the Chancellor?  Is this true BW?

[RTF]

BW - I've heard that Coach Miller has an affinity for golf.  Perhaps he should have also been invited to play in the Wisconsin Celebrity/Player Shootout (an event connected to the US Women's Open) in Kohler today. 

Busy Day at US Women's Open - http://www.jsonline.com/blogs/sports/161057435.html#!page=0&pageSize=10&sort=newestfirst

[badgerwarhawk]

One thing that we have been blessed with at WHITEWATER is administrative support.  Our last three chancellors in particular have all been extremely supportive of the athletic programs.  Chancellor Telfer and his wife attend many athletic events.  They realize the role the athletic programs can play in promoting the university and see them as a window to the institution.  The fact that this support exists and our athletic programs are prospering is not a coincidence.   

Coach Miller is a pretty good golfer.

WARHAWK athletic facilities featured on ESPN commercial
  http://uww.scoutware.net/mkg/cgi/viewMail.pl?i=M0211430401_39312

[stargazejerry]

Heard Oshkosh was calling the finalists today and offering it to one of them.

[Gregory Sager]

It looks like UW-Platteville has lost a transfer recruit.

[stargazejerry]

Also the Kolf Fieldhouse at Oshkosh is currently being gutted and will get new bleachers and a new floor.