MBB: Wisconsin Intercollegiate Athletic Conference

[havej]

Good info John regarding Heuer - what's your take on Royston?

[John Gleich]

Good info John regarding Heuer - what's your take on Royston?

I never got to see Oshkosh in person... I saw Point (x3), Whitewater (x3), Eau Claire and Platteville, though I did watch as many Point games online as I could.

Of course, Oshkosh charges your right arm to watch the games online... so I maybe saw Oshkosh once (at Point?).


Royston was certainly Oshkosh's leader... and they did focus on defense and slowing the pace thie year. They only allowed 64 ppg, which was 4th best in the league (behind some pretty stout defenses... Point, Whitewater, and, well, Stout).

While Royston's stats weren't gaudy, he was the leader and Oshkosh did finish tied for 5th. In fact, each of the All-conference players played for a top 5 (6 with the tie) team.

[basketballman14]

bballfan14 - we do not disagree on Peterson being left off.  In a post on February 23rd I had him on my first team.  There's no way he's not one of the ten best performers in the league.  I was just trying to pose possible reasons for his omission.  We'll never know why some guys didn't include him on their vote.

You commented that you saw Superior play often - they won just four games in league play this year and might have gone 0-16 without him??

I did see Superior play a lot and while they didn't fair well in conference, the roster is full of young guys...mostly freshman and sophomores who didn't have any or much experience prior to this season. Some injuries and bad play on the part of everyone on the team, including him, didn't help. They played Platteville extremely tough at home, could have even won that game. They played La Crosse tough at home on senior night, could have won that game. And if their last game against Oshkosh would have mattered, they could have won that one too. They could have won 7 games in conference this season. But he was a big reason in those games. Plus they had Bryne who could have been All-Defensive. Certainly a better defender than Cross and out-played Cross in the their first meeting and just about even in the second meeting. Cross struggled against him.

[Greek Tragedy]

I did see Superior play a lot and while they didn't fair well in conference, the roster is full of young guys...mostly freshman and sophomores who didn't have any or much experience prior to this season. Some injuries and bad play on the part of everyone on the team, including him, didn't help. They played Platteville extremely tough at home, could have even won that game. They played La Crosse tough at home on senior night, could have won that game. And if their last game against Oshkosh would have mattered, they could have won that one too. They could have won 7 games in conference this season. But he was a big reason in those games. Plus they had Bryne who could have been All-Defensive. Certainly a better defender than Cross and out-played Cross in the their first meeting and just about even in the second meeting. Cross struggled against him.

Wow. Really? Didn't matter it was the last game of the regular season? Didn't matter to the senior(s)? Didn't matter to the fans or coaches?

[badgerwarhawk]

I did see Superior play a lot and while they didn't fair well in conference, the roster is full of young guys...mostly freshman and sophomores who didn't have any or much experience prior to this season. Some injuries and bad play on the part of everyone on the team, including him, didn't help. They played Platteville extremely tough at home, could have even won that game. They played La Crosse tough at home on senior night, could have won that game. And if their last game against Oshkosh would have mattered, they could have won that one too. They could have won 7 games in conference this season. But he was a big reason in those games. Plus they had Bryne who could have been All-Defensive. Certainly a better defender than Cross and out-played Cross in the their first meeting and just about even in the second meeting. Cross struggled against him.

It was a season of could have   

[Hoops Junkie]

Interesting debate on the all-conference so i did a little statistical analysis to look at it more closely.  I took the formula that they use for the fantasy league for the WIAC and tweaked it by dividing the number of games played.  Thus not to penalize someone like Tillema or Skogman for breaking their nose and thus missing a conference game.  I used conference only stats no non conference games played any factor in this.  So for review i took points scored, 3pters made, ft's made, total rebounds, assists, steals, blocks minus turnovers and then divided by games played.  I also took the liberty to go a little deeper to see if anyone in the league may have gotten slighted...

1 Chas Cross 30.25 pg  1st team
2 Tyler Tillema 29.733 pg POY
3. Trevor Hass 29.313 pg 1st team
4 Jarrod Peterson 29.125 pg HM
5 Ollie White 28.938 pg 1st team
6 KJ Evans 28.813 pg 1st team
7 Callahan Skogman 27.133 pg 1st team
8 Adam Hjelter 22.625 pg HM
9 Jade Royston 22.563 pg 1st team
10 Jimmy Whitehead 22.50 pg HM
11 Alex Oman 22.267 pg HM
12 Eric Bryson 21 pg  1st team
12 Aaron Jenny 21 pg 1st team
14 Bronson Byrne 20.563 pg HM
15 Reggie Hearn 20.00 pg HM
16 Lucas Collom 19.625 pg HM
17 Ben Gresmer 19.375 pg     NOT ON ALL-CONFERENCE TEAM
18 Quardell Young 19.25 pg 1st team
19 Jim Stocki 19.125 pg HM
20 Lewis Mau 19.00   NOT ON ALL-CONFERENCE TEAM
21 Boston Johnson 18.938 pg NOT ON ALL-CONFERENCE TEAM
22 Zach Schradle 18.875 NOT ON ALL-CONFERENCE TEAM
23 Alex Olson 18.688 NOT ON ALL-CONFERENCE TEAM
24 Clayton Heuer 18.25 1st team
25 Eric Gerber 18.125 HM
26 Braden Tice 17.375 NOT ON ALL-CONFERENCE TEAM
27 Dylan Wurtz 16.875 NOT ON ALL-CONFERENCE TEAM
28 Luke Tweed 16.20 HM
29 Joe Ritchay 15.938 NOT ON ALL-CONFERENCE TEAM
30 Max Schebel 15.438 NOT ON ALL-CONFERENCE
31  Alex Merg 15.313 NOT ON ALL-CONFERENCE TEAM
32 Grant Erickson 15.063 NOT ON ALL-CONFERENCE TEAM

[Hoops Junkie]

A couple of interesting points in that this is a stats based analysis and does not really take a defensive stance thou it could be say that defensive rebounds, steals and blocks are defensive in nature. 

Also i think its very interesting that if you look at the numbers there is 7 no brainers for the first team all conference and one of those Peterson clearly was slighted. 

There is clear evidence that where you finish in the league determines who gets votes, Heuer is #24th in the stats analysis but because his team wins the league he gets votes, Quardell young is 18th and gets first team, and Luke Tweed is 28th but gets HM. 

History and proving oneself in league play year to year is helpful.  Quardell Young was according to the stats the 4th most important player on his team, Hearn being more valuable but Young who was 1st team as a Soph, Clayton Heuer might get the benefit because he was the year before as well.   

Clearly teams that did not do well in conference play did not get any support across the board from the coaches...  Peterson is #4 but only gets HM, Ben Gresmer gets nothing but is #17 in stat analysis, Mau 20, Schradle 22

[Hoops Junkie]

There was also talk of a Freshman of the year award and thou the league does not do one  here is the stats breakdown

Zach Schradle 18.875
Max Schebel 15.438
Grant Erickson 15.063

[havej]

Junkie - you raise some interesting points.  As a consistent follower of the conference, the only thing I can safely say is that 1) playoff teams get more guys recognized and 2) some of the selections make no sense.

[basketballman14]

Junkie - you raise some interesting points.  As a consistent follower of the conference, the only thing I can safely say is that 1) playoff teams get more guys recognized and 2) some of the selections make no sense.

Agree with your point on playoff teams getting more guys. But last season, Superior made the playoffs, but had no all-conference guys. Peterson was .1 points per game behind Cross in leading the league scoring too and top 5 (?) in rebounding I think? Personally, I don't think the coaches have much respect for him. Having talked to him before and knowing him a little bit, I don't think the other coaches realize how much harder he works than everyone else. He is a pure shooter and scorer. Can he be a hot-head at times? Yes, he can. But I have seen more class-less acts from other teams' players towards him than he has ever displayed towards them. I think he was just frustrated with how the season went.

[cubs]

Shocked to see Royston make the All WIAC team...  A couple years back it looked like the only All Conference team he would ever make would have been able to make was the All WIZZ team...

[badgerwarhawk]

First let me say that I think Peterson is a good player but I also think he got the recognition that his season created.  He's a point guard playing on a team that essentially, aside from him, had no scorers.  Somebody has to score for a team.  For Superior that somebody was Peterson and he did a good job in that role though he took more shots than anyone in the league not named Tyler Tillema.  But that was his role on the team and he was a decent rebounder.  But when you look at the rest of his game his numbers fall off.  He was 15th in the league in assists with 50.  Quardell Young was 2nd with more than twice as many (103).  His assist to turnover ratio was a negative 50 to 90, Young's was 2.64 (103 to 39).  Defensively Young led the league in steals with twice as many as Peterson (52 to 26).  Young played on a team that had three other scorers so they didn't need the points from him yet he still managed to score in double figures (10.5).  Coaches take this kind of stuff into account when they vote.

I'm sure Peterson works hard but saying that he works "harder...than anyone else" is an assumption when you don't have any idea how hard others work.  Nobody in this league who is any good got that way because they didn't work hard

There's a reason that the better teams get more players honored.  Better teams have better players.  That's why they're better.  Maybe Peterson should have been a first team selection.  I only saw him play once so I don't know.  But as I've said before I do think the coaches have a better idea than fans.

All of this is JMO. 

[havej]

Nice post BW but Peterson far from a point guard.  He's a 2 who can shoot it but makes his living by getting to the foul line. 

Reason for Superior's 4 win season is they had no point guard.  Very turnover prone and had a very difficult time getting the ball to Byrne who should have been a much better scorer with his size and touch.

I definitely agree with your better teams getting more players honored - that's how it should be because the most important thing is winning games.  As they say, to the victors go the spoils.

Peterson could have a beef that White made it on a 3 win team (that guy is really good) or that Royston made it shooting 31% over his last 15 WIAC games.

[badgerwarhawk]

Having only seen Peterson play once he looked like a point guard.  Whether he was a 1 or a 2 he scored alot because that was his role and what the team needed him to do.  We didn't need Young to do that. 

Byrne was essentially invisible on the offensive end in both meetings with us.  He rebounded ok and clearly impacted shots in the paint by blocking them or causing the shooter to alter their shot. 

[basketballman14]

Badgerwarhawk - While you do make a lot of vaild points and I'm not arguing with you, here are some other numbers:

Peterson
Field goal %: 48.7
Free-throw %: 83.1 (2nd in conference)
Rebounds: 5.8 per game (8th in conference and 3rd on his own team)
Points: 20.3 (1st in conference)
Free-throws made: 123 (1st in conference)
3-pt %: 42.7 (6th in conference)
3-pt made: 47 (8th in conference)
Minutes per game: 32.6

Young
Field goal %: 54.1
Free-throw %: 68.2
Rebounds: 2.7 per game
Points: 10.5
Free-throws made: 45
3-pt %: 45.5 (didn't qualify to be on the leaderboard I think??)
3-pt made: 15
Minutes per game: 29.6

Also, Peterson played the two-guard last season and was forced into a point guard-type role this season, which he obviously wasn't too comfortable playing. He is not a point guard by any means. Young is a solid player, no question. But we all know that playing on a good team means your numbers will be a little more modest than some other players, however, your shooting percentages and other stats (other than points) will look better. It's a lot easier to hit open shots, which I assume Young was getting as oppose to shooting over players and going against the other team's best defensive player every single game. Not that it means anything, but Peterson had 5 30-point games this season (most in the league) and shot over 60% in those games as well. Like I said earlier, it makes for a fun argument. Hope all is well!