MBB: Wisconsin Intercollegiate Athletic Conference

[Gregory Sager]

There still seems to be plenty of tradional tournaments out there where 3 schools travel to one location, so I don't see them going away any time soon.

I don't think that they're going away anytime soon, either, given the sheer number of tournaments that there were in their heyday. But they are a dwindling species, and, unless circumstances change, the invitational tournament (be it traditional or classic) will eventually go the way of the dodo and the passenger pigeon at some point, perhaps a decade or two from now. It will simply become too difficult to draw committed D3 opponents in a timely matter to make it an efficient and effective way to schedule and/or budget.

[Pat Coleman]

My observations on the proliferation of tournaments are  different than yours, I think. As I've watched the open dates message board and our Division III basketball schedules over the years, I think we reached maximum saturation about 2009 or so. This grew, in my opinion, in part because schools with conference tournaments were permitted to add a game to get up to 25 as the entire conference tournament was made exempt.

The 2009 time frame was about when we started seeing more posts on our board go unfilled or linger into the summer. That's when we started seeing three-team "tournaments" where the host would play a team on the first night, two neutral teams would play on a second night and the host would play the second team on a third day.

This state persisted for several years. Perhaps in the past two (?) years, it's settled down?

I also think that the fact that games against non-Division III opponents became significantly devalued was a factor in this. I think we had a significant ramp-up in the number of schools wanting to host tournaments, then found their tournament opponents limited, and schools were slow to react and give up tournaments.

I actually don't think we've had much of a pullback here. Remember, we essentially have an extra week to the season now, as the season start was pushed back to Nov. 15, then as early as Nov. 13 if the weekend breaks correctly. There's more weekend opportunities for tournaments and the same number of tournaments can be spread a little better before conference play starts/resumes in the new year.

[Greek Tragedy]

Stevens Point's schedule isn't out yet, but I'm a bored, smart, obsessed fan.

Nov 14 at Superior
Nov 18 vs St. Olaf
Nov 21 vs Hope
Nov 24 vs St. Norbert
Dec 5 at Augustana
Dec 12 vs Lawrence
Dec 15 vs St. Thomas
Dec 22 at Edgewood

That's 8 of 11 non conference games.

AndOne posted that Point plays North Central in Illinois on Dec. 9.

Two games to guess!

[tomt4525]

This board is as dead as I've ever seen it.  Season is closing in everyone.

[Just Bill]

[John Gleich]

The calm before the storm?

Any prognostications about the upcoming season? Point and Whitewater both lost a lot.

Is this a season where someone else can jump up and catch one or both of them?

#3 in conference last year at 10-6 was River Falls, who went 10-2 against the rest of the league (not Point/WW)... but they were 2-7 against non-conference foes (and 0-1 in the WIAC tournament). They ended the year at 12-14.

Platteville was 7-2 in the Non-con and 16-10 overall... which means they were 9-3 against the non-purple WIAC teams. Not tremendous, but better than everybody else... well, except for RF. They couldn't turn it into post season success though... lost in the first round of the tournament to Oshkosh.

Oshkosh ended the season above .500 at 16-12 and they knocked off Point and went 7-3 in non-con action but they 8-8 in the WIAC... which means were 4-8 against WIAC foes not named Stevens Point or Whitewater during the conference season. Ouch.

And when did we start measuring "greatness" by winning more games than ya lose? That's not greatness. That's mediocreness, if I can invent a word.


Will be interesting to see how the dynamics change with Superior jumping ship to the UMAC. No conference games before the New Year will make the conference schedule much more compact. I haven't looked at the schedules... each "round" of the round robin included a bye week for a conference team. That isn't going to happen anymore with 8 conference teams. Will there still be a "bye" built into the schedules? As much as not having to travel to Superior (in the winter) will be a nice change of pace, missing that potential game-slot off in the conference schedule could hurt the thinner teams/teams with injuries.

Thoughts?

[John Gleich]

I bothered to check... and there is no bye week (at least there wasn't for Whitewater... I assume everyone else is the same!)

[Just Bill]

Guess no longer....

http://athletics.uwsp.edu/news/2015/9/15/MBB_0915154847.aspx

[Greek Tragedy]

Stevens Point's schedule isn't out yet, but I'm a bored, smart, obsessed fan.

Nov 14 at Superior
Nov 18 vs St. Olaf
Nov 21 vs Hope
Nov 24 vs St. Norbert
Dec 5 at Augustana
Dec 12 vs Lawrence
Dec 15 vs St. Thomas
Dec 22 at Edgewood

That's 8 of 11 non conference games.

AndOne posted that Point plays North Central in Illinois on Dec. 9.

Two games to guess!

I never would have guessed Hamilton and Keene State!

[Greek Tragedy]

Ummm. Planning on visiting the in-laws over Thanksgiving. They live in Utah, about 8 hours from Phoenix. Wonder if I can convince the wife to postpone to Christmas and make a trip to Phoenix for the Packer game and Pointer games! Hey, a guy can dream!

[John Gleich]

Stevens Point's schedule isn't out yet, but I'm a bored, smart, obsessed fan.

Nov 14 at Superior
Nov 18 vs St. Olaf
Nov 21 vs Hope
Nov 24 vs St. Norbert
Dec 5 at Augustana
Dec 12 vs Lawrence
Dec 15 vs St. Thomas
Dec 22 at Edgewood

That's 8 of 11 non conference games.

AndOne posted that Point plays North Central in Illinois on Dec. 9.

Two games to guess!

I never would have guessed Hamilton and Keene State!

That's a pretty tough slate...

Nov 14 at Superior
Nov 18 vs St. Olaf - NCAA (23-6)
Nov 21 vs Hope
Nov 24 vs St. Norbert - NCAA (24-2)
Dec 5 at Augustana - NCAA (27-5)
Dec 9 at North Central
Dec 12 vs Lawrence
Dec 15 vs St. Thomas - NCAA (24-4)
Dec 22 at Edgewood
Dec 29 vs Hamilton (Phoenix, AZ)
Dec 30 vs Keene St (Phoenix, AZ) - NCAA (20-9)

And match-ups at Whitewater 1/9 and vs Whitewater 2/3 (24-4)

Interestingly, Whitewater, Keene St., St Thomas, and St. Norbert all lost in the first round of the tournament. All but Keene St. were upsets. St. Olaf made it to the Sweet 16 and Augie was, of course, the National Runner-up.

[frodotwo]

Stevens Point's schedule isn't out yet, but I'm a bored, smart, obsessed fan.

Nov 14 at Superior
Nov 18 vs St. Olaf
Nov 21 vs Hope
Nov 24 vs St. Norbert
Dec 5 at Augustana
Dec 12 vs Lawrence
Dec 15 vs St. Thomas
Dec 22 at Edgewood

That's 8 of 11 non conference games.

AndOne posted that Point plays North Central in Illinois on Dec. 9.

Two games to guess!

I never would have guessed Hamilton and Keene State!

That's a pretty tough slate...

Nov 14 at Superior (9-16)
Nov 18 vs St. Olaf - NCAA (23-6)
Nov 21 vs Hope (18-9)
Nov 24 vs St. Norbert - NCAA (24-2)
Dec 5 at Augustana - NCAA (27-5)
Dec 9 at North Central (18-8)
Dec 12 vs Lawrence (10-13)
Dec 15 vs St. Thomas - NCAA (24-4)
Dec 22 at Edgewood (14-13)
Dec 29 vs Hamilton (Phoenix, AZ) (14-10)
Dec 30 vs Keene St (Phoenix, AZ) - NCAA (20-9)

And match-ups at Whitewater 1/9 and vs Whitewater 2/3 (24-4)

Interestingly, Whitewater, Keene St., St Thomas, and St. Norbert all lost in the first round of the tournament. All but Keene St. were upsets. St. Olaf made it to the Sweet 16 and Augie was, of course, the National Runner-up.

2015-16 Non conference opponents were 201-95 last year for a .679 winning percentage.

[badgerwarhawk]

Ummm. Planning on visiting the in-laws over Thanksgiving. They live in Utah, about 8 hours from Phoenix. Wonder if I can convince the wife to postpone to Christmas and make a trip to Phoenix for the Packer game and Pointer games! Hey, a guy can dream!

A guy can be delusional too. 

[Greek Tragedy]

So what tourney is Point attending in Arizona? Is it a big 8 team tourney, a tourney like the d3hoops ones? Is a neutral  party hosting it?

[John Gleich]

So what tourney is Point attending in Arizona? Is it a big 8 team tourney, a tourney like the d3hoops ones? Is a neutral  party hosting it?

Dec 29 vs Hamilton (Phoenix, AZ) (14-10)
Dec 30 vs Keene St (Phoenix, AZ) - NCAA (20-9)

According to the Hamilton website, it's at the Phoenix Convention Center. But several searches on that website didn't turn anything up. Keene St. doesn't have their schedule published on their website yet.

Hamilton's other opponent in the.... tournament? classic? gathering of disparate basketball teams in a convention hall? is Southern Maine... who also doesn't have their schedule posted.

So, keep looking for Keene St or Southern Maine's schedules for more potential info?


EDIT: I used my sneaky internet ninja skills to find a portion of Southern Maine's schedule: http://www.southernmainehuskies.com/sports/mbkb/2015-16/schedule
and Keene St's schedule: http://www.keeneowls.com/sports/mbkb/2015-16/schedule

No second (or first) opponent for S. Maine... but Keene St. is playing Loras on the 30th. To the internet I go to investigate further!


Edit2: Drat, the trail runs cold in Dubuque: http://www.duhawks.com/schedule.aspx?path=mbball The Duhawks are playing the popular opponent TBA.

Edit3: Interestingly, Keene St. thinks they're playing UWSP on the 29th, while the Pointers think they're playing the game on the 30th. The Owls may be right, though... Hamilton has their game vs. SP on the 30th and Southern Maine on the 29th, which USM's schedule corroborates (or copied from Hamilton's website...)