MBB: Wisconsin Intercollegiate Athletic Conference

[The Dino Man]

Miller and Semling are the best coaches in the league, but I would argue that 50% of them being the best coaches is they have the best players.

Not by a long shot. They don't recruit as hard as an 0-16 coach does, nor do they love their players as much. At least, that's what I was told previously.

Both of them recruit similar players to those who have fit and they know who fits. You see the same "types" of players in each one of these programs on a year by year basis. Working hard doesn't mean working smart. Miller and Semling loving their players has nothing to do with it...I bet they were all pretty happy to have won national championships whether or not they liked the coach they play for. I can guarantee that the Badgers players don't all love Bo Ryan, even those who starred for him. I'll use the word guarantee just like you used "not in a long shot".

[Mr. Ypsi]

Depends what your definition of "the best" means, I guess. None of last year's senior group of Lutz, Richard, Ryf and Ritchay made even AC-HM the previous year. Hardly a forecast for being the best. They obviously ended up having the best team though.

Having an eye for who will BECOME the best.  For the most part, those who would obviously be D3 stars, are not gonna go D3.  So being able to foresee those who are too short but play taller, those who are too thin but may gain muscle, those lacking some basic skills but who have a propensity to learn, etc., is the key to being a great D3 coach. 

Duncan Robinson (who has now defected to D1) is an obvious example - he wasn't recruited to D1 because he was a bit 'wispy' even by D3 standards; Michigan obviously decided that with a shot like that, the strength coach could make him a D1 starter, and hopefully (says the UM fan ), a star.

[John Gleich]

We are all really saying the same thing. Although I would like to think that with River Falls and Oshkosh's returning players they should be able to contend for a title, I'm not saying it WILL happen.

I guess I inadvertently made a point I didn't realize I was trying to make. In order for a team to contend for the conference title, they likely need to be a national championship-type contender. Part of why this upcoming season is so hard to peg is because there isn't a team that appears to have the pieces to put together a strong post-season run. At least at this point...

I'm purely saying that if this league is as cyclical as it has shown, this should be the year that another team who does not wear the color purple, should challenge and make a NCAA Tournament run. Those two teams in my estimation would be River Falls and Oshkosh.
Based on returning players ALONE, Stevens Point should not finish better than 4th in the league. That is how pre-season polls work. Who is returning and what was their output the year before. I would argue that River Falls, Oshkosh and Platteville (maybe EC) all have more returning than Whitewater and Stevens Point. If I'm wrong show me the data. If Monanu and Patten have left Whitewater, who on that team that is returning that we know of gives them the right to be in the top half? Again, that is what pre-season polls do.
This isn't D1...we don't have ranked recruiting classes that can help us in these issues.
Semling and Miller obviously have this thing figured out. Platteville had the best player in the league and maybe the country in Cross for two years and couldn't beat those two teams. I would imagine that those two teams will finish higher than I predicted, but judging on past experience, can't we all say that this should be the year one of them doesn't make it or at least a third joins the party?

I think that what especially Point has done in their run of recent success and to a slightly lesser extent Whitewater (though that's what put WW over the top with the two championships in 3 years)  was the TEAM gospel that was preached by Coach Semling and Coach Miller... and that was bought into by their players.

Look at SP last year. They started off the year 3-2 and were 7-3 after 10 games. They had lost 3 non-conference games before the new year. But then they finished the year on a 20-2 tear. And they did it with tremendous defense and unselfish play.

But I think you overstate the case on Chas Cross. He was a 4th team All-American in 2013 and didn't gain All-American honors as a senior. He was the conference POY as a junior, but I think a very strong case can be made that Tyler Tillema would have won it his junior year if he hadn't gotten hurt.

Platteville's claims on "best player" seem to me to be better suited to Jeff Skemp than Chas Cross.

[Greek Tragedy]

Obviously it takes more than one great player to be a great team. Cross out Chas from Platteville  and replace with Rich Melzer from River Falls. 2 time Conference  POY, 2 time All American (1st and 2nd).

I think Whitewater and Point recruit different players.

[Greek Tragedy]

We are all really saying the same thing. Although I would like to think that with River Falls and Oshkosh's returning players they should be able to contend for a title, I'm not saying it WILL happen. I'm purely saying that if this league is as cyclical as it has shown, this should be the year that another team who does not wear the color purple, should challenge and make a NCAA Tournament run. Those two teams in my estimation would be River Falls and Oshkosh.
Based on returning players ALONE, Stevens Point should not finish better than 4th in the league. That is how pre-season polls work. Who is returning and what was their output the year before. I would argue that River Falls, Oshkosh and Platteville (maybe EC) all have more returning than Whitewater and Stevens Point. If I'm wrong show me the data. If Monanu and Patten have left Whitewater, who on that team that is returning that we know of gives them the right to be in the top half? Again, that is what pre-season polls do.
This isn't D1...we don't have ranked recruiting classes that can help us in these issues.
Semling and Miller obviously have this thing figured out. Platteville had the best player in the league and maybe the country in Cross for two years and couldn't beat those two teams. I would imagine that those two teams will finish higher than I predicted, but judging on past experience, can't we all say that this should be the year one of them doesn't make it or at least a third joins the party?

Based on your argument and theory, Whitewater would probably be polled last in the WIAC. They lose 7 of their top 8 players with only Drew Bryson returning...and he's a disposed starter who ended up averaging about 20+ minutes a game. No other returner averaged more than 5 minutes a game except for Brandon Thompson (6.8 minutes a game). At least Point returns ONE starter and another guy who averaged 25+ minutes a game off the bench...and Gjertson averaged 10 minutes a game!

I've always thought preseason polls were nonsense, though fun to look at. The pollster's poll on this site starts at the new year, giving the teams some time to figure out who they are.

[Hoops_n_Golf]

We are all really saying the same thing. Although I would like to think that with River Falls and Oshkosh's returning players they should be able to contend for a title, I'm not saying it WILL happen.

I think that what especially Point has done in their run of recent success and to a slightly lesser extent Whitewater (though that's what put WW over the top with the two championships in 3 years)  was the TEAM gospel that was preached by Coach Semling and Coach Miller... and that was bought into by their players.

Look at SP last year. They started off the year 3-2 and were 7-3 after 10 games. They had lost 3 non-conference games before the new year. But then they finished the year on a 20-2 tear. And they did it with tremendous defense and unselfish play.

A couple of very insightful contributions. Maybe its presentist bias but I have rarely seen this type of seperation between the top two and the rest. I came around about the time of Melzer and RF and saw a really talented Oshkosh team shortly thereafter. But the time since has been DOMINATED by purple. They have developed a dynasty of sorts that has been both equal parts impressive and maddening for the rest of us.

Semling and Miller are winners. No doubt about that. What's interesting is that they appear to do it in different ways. But they are consistent. But the winning has predated them both to a large extent. Hasn't it?

It should be a fun ride. Every year about this time I start thinking "hey - EVERYONE has graduated. I don't know a single player" and then a bunch of guys from Point make a run and Whitewater has an immediate impact kid transfer. Not to mention the Minnesota kids that land on Stout, RF, and ECs rosters. Going to be fun to see who this new bunch is.

[badgerwarhawk]

We are all really saying the same thing. Although I would like to think that with River Falls and Oshkosh's returning players they should be able to contend for a title, I'm not saying it WILL happen. I'm purely saying that if this league is as cyclical as it has shown, this should be the year that another team who does not wear the color purple, should challenge and make a NCAA Tournament run. Those two teams in my estimation would be River Falls and Oshkosh.
Based on returning players ALONE, Stevens Point should not finish better than 4th in the league. That is how pre-season polls work. Who is returning and what was their output the year before. I would argue that River Falls, Oshkosh and Platteville (maybe EC) all have more returning than Whitewater and Stevens Point.] If I'm wrong show me the data. If Monanu and Patten have left Whitewater, who on that team that is returning that we know of gives them the right to be in the top half? Again, that is what pre-season polls do.
This isn't D1...we don't have ranked recruiting classes that can help us in these issues.
Semling and Miller obviously have this thing figured out. Platteville had the best player in the league and maybe the country in Cross for two years and couldn't beat those two teams. I would imagine that those two teams will finish higher than I predicted, but judging on past experience, can't we all say that this should be the year one of them doesn't make it or at least a third joins the party?

Based on your argument and theory, Whitewater would probably be polled last in the WIAC. They lose 7 of their top 8 players with only Drew Bryson returning...and he's a disposed starter who ended up averaging about 20+ minutes a game. No other returner averaged more than 5 minutes a game except for Brandon Thompson (6.8 minutes a game). At least Point returns ONE starter and another guy who averaged 25+ minutes a game off the bench...and Gjertson averaged 10 minutes a game.

Exactly, I doubt we'll be very competitive this year.  Actually if I were a WIAC coach I wouldn't waste any practice time preparing for the WARHAWKS.  I'd use all my time getting ready for the team that follows.  Move along, there's nothing to see here.     

[The Dino Man]

We are all really saying the same thing. Although I would like to think that with River Falls and Oshkosh's returning players they should be able to contend for a title, I'm not saying it WILL happen. I'm purely saying that if this league is as cyclical as it has shown, this should be the year that another team who does not wear the color purple, should challenge and make a NCAA Tournament run. Those two teams in my estimation would be River Falls and Oshkosh.
Based on returning players ALONE, Stevens Point should not finish better than 4th in the league. That is how pre-season polls work. Who is returning and what was their output the year before. I would argue that River Falls, Oshkosh and Platteville (maybe EC) all have more returning than Whitewater and Stevens Point. If I'm wrong show me the data. If Monanu and Patten have left Whitewater, who on that team that is returning that we know of gives them the right to be in the top half? Again, that is what pre-season polls do.
This isn't D1...we don't have ranked recruiting classes that can help us in these issues.
Semling and Miller obviously have this thing figured out. Platteville had the best player in the league and maybe the country in Cross for two years and couldn't beat those two teams. I would imagine that those two teams will finish higher than I predicted, but judging on past experience, can't we all say that this should be the year one of them doesn't make it or at least a third joins the party?

Based on your argument and theory, Whitewater would probably be polled last in the WIAC. They lose 7 of their top 8 players with only Drew Bryson returning...and he's a disposed starter who ended up averaging about 20+ minutes a game. No other returner averaged more than 5 minutes a game except for Brandon Thompson (6.8 minutes a game). At least Point returns ONE starter and another guy who averaged 25+ minutes a game off the bench...and Gjertson averaged 10 minutes a game!

I've always thought preseason polls were nonsense, though fun to look at. The pollster's poll on this site starts at the new year, giving the teams some time to figure out who they are.

My point exactly. Preseason polls, especially at D3 level are based on returning. It doesn't always turn out that way because the coaches/media who watch the leagues will bet on a coach rather than team...but that is what a preseason poll is done for at this level. I agree, pre-season polls aren't a great indicator of where teams will finish. But based on returners...RF and Osh lead the way for me.

[bleedpurple]

We are all really saying the same thing. Although I would like to think that with River Falls and Oshkosh's returning players they should be able to contend for a title, I'm not saying it WILL happen. I'm purely saying that if this league is as cyclical as it has shown, this should be the year that another team who does not wear the color purple, should challenge and make a NCAA Tournament run. Those two teams in my estimation would be River Falls and Oshkosh.
Based on returning players ALONE, Stevens Point should not finish better than 4th in the league. That is how pre-season polls work. Who is returning and what was their output the year before. I would argue that River Falls, Oshkosh and Platteville (maybe EC) all have more returning than Whitewater and Stevens Point. If I'm wrong show me the data. If Monanu and Patten have left Whitewater, who on that team that is returning that we know of gives them the right to be in the top half? Again, that is what pre-season polls do.
This isn't D1...we don't have ranked recruiting classes that can help us in these issues.
Semling and Miller obviously have this thing figured out. Platteville had the best player in the league and maybe the country in Cross for two years and couldn't beat those two teams. I would imagine that those two teams will finish higher than I predicted, but judging on past experience, can't we all say that this should be the year one of them doesn't make it or at least a third joins the party?

Based on your argument and theory, Whitewater would probably be polled last in the WIAC. They lose 7 of their top 8 players with only Drew Bryson returning...and he's a disposed starter who ended up averaging about 20+ minutes a game. No other returner averaged more than 5 minutes a game except for Brandon Thompson (6.8 minutes a game). At least Point returns ONE starter and another guy who averaged 25+ minutes a game off the bench...and Gjertson averaged 10 minutes a game!

I've always thought preseason polls were nonsense, though fun to look at. The pollster's poll on this site starts at the new year, giving the teams some time to figure out who they are.

My point exactly. Preseason polls, especially at D3 level are based on returning. It doesn't always turn out that way because the coaches/media who watch the leagues will bet on a coach rather than team...but that is what a preseason poll is done for at this level. I agree, pre-season polls aren't a great indicator of where teams will finish. But based on returners...RF and Osh lead the way for me.

I don't know about the polls, but I will take Point and Whitewater against the field to be this year's conference champion. In a heartbeat.

[Greek Tragedy]

http://www.smallcollegehoops.com/Home_files/D3NOct15FactSheet.pdf

This poll has Point 9th...and Whitewater isn't even in the "others to watch".

Silly preseason polls!

[The Dino Man]

http://www.smallcollegehoops.com/Home_files/D3NOct15FactSheet.pdf

This poll has Point 9th...and Whitewater isn't even in the "others to watch".

Silly preseason polls!

Greek Tragedy is a cocky one huh?
We'd call that being passive-aggressive.
I'd say when losing that many starters, #9 in the country in a pre-season poll is extremely high. I think it makes 100% sense for Whitewater not to be in the poll at all. Look at who's returning. Being raining National Champs doesn't hurt however. I'd also look at the rest of that poll and say that my bet is 60-75% of the schools listed won't be in the final poll at the end of the year. Just my opinion though...which I think we are able to have on this message board. Central Region is highly under ranked, again.

[Just Bill]

That poll may be dependent on which school actually filled out the online form.

[badgerwarhawk]

http://www.smallcollegehoops.com/Home_files/D3NOct15FactSheet.pdf

This poll has Point 9th...and Whitewater isn't even in the "others to watch".

Silly preseason polls!

Greek Tragedy is a cocky one huh?
We'd call that being passive-aggressive.
I'd say when losing that many starters, #9 in the country in a pre-season poll is extremely high. I think it makes 100% sense for Whitewater not to be in the poll at all. Look at who's returning. Beingraining National Champs doesn't hurt however. I'd also look at the rest of that poll and say that my bet is 60-75% of the schools listed won't be in the final poll at the end of the year. Just my opinion though...which I think we are able to have on this message board. Central Region is highly under ranked, again.

+k, Dino.  That one gave me a good laugh.

Keep your eye on Lancaster Bible.  They could surprise people.  If they can get past Maranatha Baptist they could challenge for a national championship. 

[The Dino Man]

River Falls
-St. Norbert (potential match-up)

Eau Claire
-St. Norbert
-Buena Vista

Whitewater
-Augustana
-Wheaton
-Ripon

Stevens Point
-Hope
-St. Norbert
-Augustana
-North Central

Platteville
-Hope
-Dubuque
-North Central

Stout
-Dubuque

Oshkosh
-St. Norbert
-Carthage College
-Augustana

Lacrosse
-Augustana
-Lakeland
-Hope

Just went through all of the schedules, wondering what they looked like. Tough non-conference schedules from Oshkosh and Point. Should be a great test for the league early. Most disappointed in River Falls and Eau Claire, especially because I think the Falcons should be among the league's elite. Maybe last years early season record kept them away from difficult scheduling.

Better to go .500 in non-conference against good competition or +.750 against bad?
-The Dino Man...needs his sleep

[Greek Tragedy]

I thought it was amusing that Point was ranked 9th. Of course, I thought it was amusing Point was ranked 7th on this site's preseason poll last year...

For the record, this site's Final poll had 13 of 25 teams from it's preseason poll.