MBB: Wisconsin Intercollegiate Athletic Conference

[AppletonRocks]

Wow, Pat Miller's court side  behavior is abhorent.  Looks like a jack***.  Wins don't justify that. 

I noticed that during their game in La Crosse too.

It continued even after the game was well in hand.  He must feel he gets the benefit with the refs down the road as he couldn't get two wins last night. 

[AppletonRocks]

Nice win in a gym that isn't particularly friendly to visitors, at least us anyway.   Can anyone who may have been at the game tell me if Drew Bryson was defending Boots?   

No.  Lot of zone or Andre Brown, but lots of switches.  He missed a few threes early and didn't take many after. TO in the paint, 3 I believe.   

Does Brown ever get called for traveling, aka carry?  He appears to do it just about every play. 

Van Schyndel continues to surprise, he is much improved.

[badgerwarhawk]

It was a six point game literally won in the final seconds.  So I'm curious at what point was it "well in hand." 

Any of the Titan game management threaten him? 

 

[AppletonRocks]

It was a six point game literally won in the final seconds.  So I'm curious at what point was it "well in hand." 

Any of the Titan game management threaten him? 

When the Warhawks were shooting FT at the end, it was over, he was working the refs big time.  I felt it was over with 20 seconds to go.  Titans couldn't convert anything.

As for the second question, no.  Is there some history of that?  Serious question. I thought a few of the fans were ready to do so later in the game. 

There was an issue early in the game when a group of students (they usually lead the "KolfPack" cheering section) were relocated as they were apparently infringing on the area the large group of cheerleaders that WW brought along were standing. No big deal.   

[Hoops_n_Golf]

I just was working with one of my students on number-sense. We started talking about basketball and forensic math. So I thought it would be fun to work with him on a pet project. Here's what we he came up with...

Stout's losing streak of 26 losses is the biggest streak dating back to 1990. During this stretch the other WIAC teams have won:

• WW - 21 Regular season WIAC games
• Point - 20
• River - 16
• Platteville - 15
• LaCrosse & Oshkosh - 13
• Eau Claire - 9
• Superior even won 4 Regular season WIAC games

The 26-straight losses is the most. Only Superior (21; 2005-2007) and Oshkosh (20; 2011-2012) are close.

Since 2000 (coincidentally the first year that Andrist was coaching the Devils) the league WIAC regular season records are:

• Point 194-51 (2 Coaches)
• WWater 180-65 (2 Coaches)
• Platteville 138-107 (2 Coaches)
• Oshkosh 137-128 (2 Coaches)
• LaCrosse 113-132 (3 Coaches)
• River 110-135 (2 Coaches)
• Stout 96-151 (1 Coach)
• Eau Claire 82-163 (3 Coaches)
• Superior 68-172 (6? Coaches)

Two things jumped out at me from this data. I didn't realize how much separation there is between Point (79%) Whitewater (73%) and the rest of the league (55% and below). Think of it - those two programs are winning 3/4 of the conference games they're playing.

I must preface the other point by reiterating my lack of fondness for Eddie Andrist. You've heard read my opinion before and there aren't any surprises. I know enough guys that played for him and I've been around him during recruiting and coaches clinics and he just rubs me the wrong way. So there's full disclosure and I understand all of that is subjective. He has plenty of supporters on here and (presumably) in the Stout community. However looking at it objectively - studying the data - I have but one question (albeit rhetorical): why is Andrist still at Stout? Wouldn't the numbers suggest a change has been in order?

I apologize for this if it seems like an attack on an individual. That isn't my intention. Just wondering what I am missing.

I am not in love with the WIAC. I used to enjoy it a lot more than this season. It always seemed like it was THE ELITE LEAGUE and the BEST BASKETBALL you could buy in Wisconsin. It isn't that anymore. The skill level seems to be lower and there isn't as much excitement even on message boards. Is there something wrong with me? (Again - rhetorical!)

[badgerwarhawk]

It was a six point game literally won in the final seconds.  So I'm curious at what point was it "well in hand." 

Any of the Titan game management threaten him? 

When the Warhawks were shooting FT at the end, it was over, he was working the refs big time.  I felt it was over with 20 seconds to go.  Titans couldn't convert anything.

As for the second question, no.  Is there some history of that?  Serious question. I thought a few of the fans were ready to do so later in the game. 

There was an issue early in the game when a group of students (they usually lead the "KolfPack" cheering section) were relocated as they were apparently infringing on the area the large group of cheerleaders that WW brought along were standing. No big deal.   

If you think a coach would think it was well in hand in that circumstance all I can say is that you don't think like a coach thinks.  But now that you don't have VanDellen to bad mouth I guess someone else has to fill the void. 

Yes, there is a history of an individual who was part of game management threatening him. 

[Greek Tragedy]

Yes, there's something wrong with you, HnG! 4 National Championships in 6 years isn't good enough for you?    Sure, Point and Whitewater aren't on their way to 15-1 conference records. But, as a WIAC fan, I'm excited about the prospect of new blood challenging the old guard. Can River Falls continue their nice start? Will Oshkosh rebound from the Whitewater loss? Can La Crosse build on their early success? If you're not a Point or Whitewater fan, you should be excited.

Is the league presumably down?  Sure, their nonconference record was horrible for our standards. Maybe the league as a whole isn't as good as in the past, maybe someone not named Point or Whitewater is running away with the league.  No need to get down on the league! If Point or Whitewater don't win the league and/or don't make the NCAAs, I'm excited to see who will.

As for this board, I am disappointed, but not surprised by the lack of traffic. This never has been mistaken for the CCIW board. There are a lot of lurkers out there, so even though I feel like I'm talking to myself most of the time, I know someone reads this! I've had lurkers come up to me in Salem and tell me they enjoy my posts.

I've cut down on my posts here because I rarely see games anymore. So, I can't really comment on games if I don't see them. I really rely on game stories and boxscores.

So, I'm not getting down on the WIAC even if the league does seem down this year. But who else can be the best conference in the state? The MWC? Nope, not until a MWC team can get out of the 1st weekend, let alone the 1st round. The NACC? The good teams in that league are Benedictine, Aurora and Rockford. I'm not any good at geography, but I don't think any of those teams are in Wisconsin!

Anyway, don't like the board? Head over to the NACC board...and you thought our board was dead! I'm sure Ryan Unstoppable will talk to you.

Don't let the door hit you in the backside on the way out!

Obviously, I'm kidding, but the WIAC will survive this "down" year. Who knows, maybe River Falls can carry the torch, if Whitewater can't rebound form their horrific 3-2 league start or Oshkosh can't bounce back. 

[Hoops_n_Golf]

Yes, there's something wrong with you, HnG! 4 National Championships in 6 years isn't good enough for you?    Sure, Point and Whitewater aren't on their way to 15-1 conference records. But, as a WIAC fan, I'm excited about the prospect of new blood challenging the old guard. Can River Falls continue their nice start? Will Oshkosh rebound from the Whitewater loss? Can La Crosse build on their early success? If you're not a Point or Whitewater fan, you should be excited.

Is the league presumably down?  Sure, their nonconference record was horrible for our standards. Maybe the league as a whole isn't as good as in the past, maybe someone not named Point or Whitewater is running away with the league.  No need to get down on the league! If Point or Whitewater don't win the league and/or don't make the NCAAs, I'm excited to see who will.

As for this board, I am disappointed, but not surprised by the lack of traffic. This never has been mistaken for the CCIW board. There are a lot of lurkers out there, so even though I feel like I'm talking to myself most of the time, I know someone reads this! I've had lurkers come up to me in Salem and tell me they enjoy my posts.

I've cut down on my posts here because I rarely see games anymore. So, I can't really comment on games if I don't see them. I really rely on game stories and boxscores.

So, I'm not getting down on the WIAC even if the league does seem down this year. But who else can be the best conference in the state? The MWC? Nope, not until a MWC team can get out of the 1st weekend, let alone the 1st round. The NACC? The good teams in that league are Benedictine, Aurora and Rockford. I'm not any good at geography, but I don't think any of those teams are in Wisconsin!

Anyway, don't like the board? Head over to the NACC board...and you thought our board was dead! I'm sure Ryan Unstoppable will talk to you.

Don't let the door hit you in the backside on the way out!

Obviously, I'm kidding, but the WIAC will survive this "down" year. Who knows, maybe River Falls can carry the torch, if Whitewater can't rebound form their horrific 3-2 league start or Oshkosh can't bounce back. 

All very good points. We have been spoiled. And the parity does make for some more interesting matchups. My next "assignment" will be to look into attendance and see if there is a trend.

Like you I am not catching as many games anymore either. My other commitments have me otherwise tied up most Wednesdays and Saturdays. And when I do want to catch a game online I have to pony up to do so. Perhaps that's what has me sore.

Thanks for putting me in my place. I needed it!

[cubs]

So, I'm not getting down on the WIAC even if the league does seem down this year. But who else can be the best conference in the state? The MWC? Nope, not until a MWC team can get out of the 1st weekend, let alone the 1st round.

Does LU's Elite 8 appearance in 2004 not count anymore since it has been over 10 years now?   

[Hoops Junkie]

Hey hoops the wiac is still the best thing going, but they do some things to hurt themselves.  Going away from weekend he's in hoops was a mistake.  Creating a hockey league with no aq was a bad idea.  All in all its still a great league with great coaches, above average d3 players and strong tradition.

[tomt4525]

Yes, there's something wrong with you, HnG! 4 National Championships in 6 years isn't good enough for you?    Sure, Point and Whitewater aren't on their way to 15-1 conference records. But, as a WIAC fan, I'm excited about the prospect of new blood challenging the old guard. Can River Falls continue their nice start? Will Oshkosh rebound from the Whitewater loss? Can La Crosse build on their early success? If you're not a Point or Whitewater fan, you should be excited.

Is the league presumably down?  Sure, their nonconference record was horrible for our standards. Maybe the league as a whole isn't as good as in the past, maybe someone not named Point or Whitewater is running away with the league.  No need to get down on the league! If Point or Whitewater don't win the league and/or don't make the NCAAs, I'm excited to see who will.

As for this board, I am disappointed, but not surprised by the lack of traffic. This never has been mistaken for the CCIW board. There are a lot of lurkers out there, so even though I feel like I'm talking to myself most of the time, I know someone reads this! I've had lurkers come up to me in Salem and tell me they enjoy my posts.

I've cut down on my posts here because I rarely see games anymore. So, I can't really comment on games if I don't see them. I really rely on game stories and boxscores.

So, I'm not getting down on the WIAC even if the league does seem down this year. But who else can be the best conference in the state? The MWC? Nope, not until a MWC team can get out of the 1st weekend, let alone the 1st round. The NACC? The good teams in that league are Benedictine, Aurora and Rockford. I'm not any good at geography, but I don't think any of those teams are in Wisconsin!

Anyway, don't like the board? Head over to the NACC board...and you thought our board was dead! I'm sure Ryan Unstoppable will talk to you.

Don't let the door hit you in the backside on the way out!

Obviously, I'm kidding, but the WIAC will survive this "down" year. Who knows, maybe River Falls can carry the torch, if Whitewater can't rebound form their horrific 3-2 league start or Oshkosh can't bounce back. 

I'm obviously a Point fan....so this year isn't how I'd want the WIAC season to go ever...but I'm still happy to follow the WIAC and still think it's one of the premier Division 3 Basketball leagues in the country.  This is a down year as most have said and realized, but I think with the way the WIAC schools are recruiting, I think it will be getting better soon.  Point is very young and will continue to improve, I don't remember a time ever that Point has played 5 freshman in the same game...along with sophomores Geodeke and Zuiker getting minutes.  If they get a couple solid players from this next recruiting class, they will be right back.  Whitewater has some very solid young guards and has Quevyn Winters coming next season, not to mention they always seems to get contributions from transfers.  Oshkosh is starting to get some of the top talent in Wisconsin and has a star in the making in Ben Boots.  River Falls keeps getting talented players from Minnesota away from some of the MIAC.  It is going to be interesting to see how everything unfolds in the next couple seasons. 

[badgerwarhawk]

I am not in love with the WIAC. I used to enjoy it a lot more than this season. It always seemed like it was THE ELITE LEAGUE and the BEST BASKETBALL you could buy in Wisconsin. It isn't that anymore. The skill level seems to be lower and there isn't as much excitement even on message boards. Is there something wrong with me? (Again - rhetorical!)

Aside from St Norbert and the D1 programs name one other program within the state that will consistently compete and beat WIAC programs.  Off the top of my head I can't think of a single program let alone an entire league.  Yes, the league is down but my hunch is that it's not a trend but rather a deviation from the norm.   

[stoutguy]

  Heading South next week for a couple months so thought I would stir everyone up with  a few comments and then let BDB clean up my mess after I leave.  I see not much has changed with Hoops-n-Golf.  Nice job with the "Working with one of my students on number sense" to convince yourself that you don't have an ax to grind regarding Ed and that you hoped you wouldn't offend anyone with an attack on an individual.  To AppletonRocks I suggest that you be very careful commenting on Pat Miller's sideline antics. I got ripped pretty good for doing the same thing so I won't go there either.  To Fredfalcon I would suggest that I like Pat Bauschult too, but would guess that some posters would pull up short calling him the "Best in the league".  I have seen WW, LX, and EC and would say that WW impressed me the most but I liked LX too.  Of course they were playing Stout and as it has been eloquently pointed out, we lose to everyone so my opinion should not count.  Hope you guys all have a good winter and don't get too down on this league.  It may be down a tad but it is still pretty darn fun to watch.  I will continue to lurk from afar this season. 

[Hoops_n_Golf]

I see not much has changed with Hoops-n-Golf.  Nice job with the "Working with one of my students on number sense" to convince yourself that you don't have an ax to grind regarding Ed and that you hoped you wouldn't offend anyone with an attack on an individual.

Stoutguy - enjoy the south. I envy those able to "get away" from the weather for a while. Someday. Someday.

Do me a huge favor and respond once more (understand I'm doing my best to not let this get ugly  ) I know he's your guy and one could argue you have an axe to grind with those that don't see it your way. I know you like him and you know I don't. Done. Settled. But at what point can you say it's time to move on? This is the worst losing streak in 25 years in the WIAC. Oshkosh went 0-16 in '11-'12. The next year a new coach and since then Oshkosh has gone one to 20-33. Not amazing I know. But since Oshkosh made the switch Stout has gone 18-35 in that same stretch. (take out the first season Juckem was in the league using Van Dellen's guys and its Oshkosh 18-19 and Stout 7-30) So my question is how much longer will Stout stick with him or the other way around?

What am I missing? Maybe he is molding young men and impacting the campus and community. If so you (and he) have my respect. But aren't other coaches doing similar - and winning a bit?

I won't grind my axe anymore. I am legitimately wondering what is going on there. This is the WORST WIAC losing streak on record. I know it's not all about wins and losses - I get that. But shouldn't a little of it be about wins and losses?


In response to the others that have commented on my earlier topic of this league being down --> you all make compelling points. I'm not having a banner day and perhaps made that comment without too much thought. I need to get back into the thick of things - make it to a few games and start getting excited about the WIAC again!

[Hoops_n_Golf]

Wow, Pat Miller's court side  behavior is abhorent.  Looks like a jack***.  Wins don't justify that. 

My take on this is that you're right - he does look foolish sometime. But he wants to win - hell he expects to win. He has developed a reputation for that behavior and its almost like "old news" now. The league didn't ever punish it & it is in line with D1 & D2 coaches behavior. What you do not correct you reinforce. So the league has in a sense promoted that behavior.

I don't know him personally AT ALL. But when I coached I was demonstrative - certainly not to that extent. It started with passion and grew because it was unchecked. Then I had my fiancee's parents come to a game. Her mother said I looked silly. I started watching myself on film and realized I wasn't helping my cause and perhaps was losing credibility. Once I calmed down I actually felt like I had an impact on the game. Maybe my wife's folks should head down to Whitewater and critique Coach Miller? 

Honestly though because of his success and how he apparently handles himself off the court I think he gets a pass from lots of people. Look at the support he has from their fans - says a lot.