MBB: Wisconsin Intercollegiate Athletic Conference

[Greek Tragedy]

I love it!       

I think we are a 1-bid league this year. 

[badgerwarhawk]

Eau Claire: 66
WARHAWKS: 63

Eau Claire scored the first basket but the WARHAWKS answered quickly with a jumper by Jerry Ngobi and Haki Stampley's three pointer.  With the exception of two times the WARHAWKS held a lead which ranged from a single point to a high of six for just over eighteen minutes of the first half.  Eau Claire took a 29-28 lead with just under two minutes remaining but the WARHAWKS answered with Cole Van Schyndel's layup and led 30-29 at the half.  Stampley's 12 points and 7 rebounds led the WARHAWKS who shot 40% from the floor.  Eau Claire shot 48% from the floor and was led by Jack Martinek's 10 points and 4 rebounds. Eau Claire regained the lead 34-32 a couple of minutes into the second half and held it for for about five minutes building it to a high of four points.  A fast break layup by Stampley put the WARHAWKS up 37-36 and a lead which reached three points and lasted about three and half minutes.  With just under nine minutes the two teams were tied 42-42 and over the next minute and half traded the lead twice before the BluGolds scored in the paint and went up 45-45.  The BluGolds would lead the rest of the way.  During the remaing time the WARHAWKS would trail by as many as eight and get to within one before the final horn.  The game saw a combined 12 ties and lead changes. 

Stampley: 17 points, 13 rebounds, 2 blocks
Ngobi: 14 points
Andre Brown: 11 points, 6:1 a:to, steal
VanSchyndel: 8 points, 8 rebounds, block

Eau Claire:
Jared Schniedermann: 20 points, 7 rebounds, 2 assists, 2 blocks, steal
Tyson Kailen: 14 points, 2 assists
Jack Martinek: 12 points
George Diekelman: 11 points, 2 assists, steal


Time to lower my expectations of this group. 

[Dave 'd-mac' McHugh]

I just was working with one of my students on number-sense. We started talking about basketball and forensic math. So I thought it would be fun to work with him on a pet project. Here's what we he came up with...

Stout's losing streak of 26 losses is the biggest streak dating back to 1990. During this stretch the other WIAC teams have won:

• WW - 21 Regular season WIAC games
• Point - 20
• River - 16
• Platteville - 15
• LaCrosse & Oshkosh - 13
• Eau Claire - 9
• Superior even won 4 Regular season WIAC games

The 26-straight losses is the most. Only Superior (21; 2005-2007) and Oshkosh (20; 2011-2012) are close.

Since 2000 (coincidentally the first year that Andrist was coaching the Devils) the league WIAC regular season records are:

• Point 194-51 (2 Coaches)
• WWater 180-65 (2 Coaches)
• Platteville 138-107 (2 Coaches)
• Oshkosh 137-128 (2 Coaches)
• LaCrosse 113-132 (3 Coaches)
• River 110-135 (2 Coaches)
• Stout 96-151 (1 Coach)
• Eau Claire 82-163 (3 Coaches)
• Superior 68-172 (6? Coaches)

Two things jumped out at me from this data. I didn't realize how much separation there is between Point (79%) Whitewater (73%) and the rest of the league (55% and below). Think of it - those two programs are winning 3/4 of the conference games they're playing.

I must preface the other point by reiterating my lack of fondness for Eddie Andrist. You've heard read my opinion before and there aren't any surprises. I know enough guys that played for him and I've been around him during recruiting and coaches clinics and he just rubs me the wrong way. So there's full disclosure and I understand all of that is subjective. He has plenty of supporters on here and (presumably) in the Stout community. However looking at it objectively - studying the data - I have but one question (albeit rhetorical): why is Andrist still at Stout? Wouldn't the numbers suggest a change has been in order?

I apologize for this if it seems like an attack on an individual. That isn't my intention. Just wondering what I am missing.

I don't have an answer for you, but Pat interviewed Andrist at the D3hoops Classic in Vegas in December and they touched on this a bit. Give it a listen: https://youtu.be/urdLyoiimUo

I am not in love with the WIAC. I used to enjoy it a lot more than this season. It always seemed like it was THE ELITE LEAGUE and the BEST BASKETBALL you could buy in Wisconsin. It isn't that anymore. The skill level seems to be lower and there isn't as much excitement even on message boards. Is there something wrong with me? (Again - rhetorical!)

I think you are taking one year and thinking differently about that year... and extrapolating it into something completely different. I am not in Wisconsin, but I don't see another better brand of basketball. Your point about Stout is from the point of view of where you are. I have seen Stout in person and they aren't a bad team... which speaks to just how good the league really is if they struggle to win in it. Furthermore, the top of the league has been some of the best in the country for a number of years, but it can't be expected to be at the top every single year. There are ebbs and flows and right now the top is a bit down while the middle has gotten more competitive.

It is all about optics and being as close to it as you are alters your optics. Take it from someone who sees the entire country... the WIAC is still one of the top five conferences in the country even if they only get one bid this year. Heck, there are two, maybe three, of the top five conferences who might only get single bids this season due to the enormous amounts of parity across the country: ODAC, WIAC, and maybe UAA.

[Hoops_n_Golf]

I don't have an answer for you, but Pat interviewed Andrist at the D3hoops Classic in Vegas in December and they touched on this a bit. Give it a listen: https://youtu.be/urdLyoiimUo

I have seen Stout in person and they aren't a bad team... which speaks to just how good the league really is if they struggle to win in it. Furthermore, the top of the league has been some of the best in the country for a number of years, but it can't be expected to be at the top every single year.

Very good points. And thanks for sharing the interview. It was good. (New question that arose at 12:03 of the interview Eddie mentions "Dark" over at UW-GB - who is that? Does Darner have a knickname?)

I guess this answers the Stout quandary for me - everyone over there must be content with not being BAD. You don't have to be good at Stout as long as you aren't bad. Oshkosh (Men and Women) and Eau Claire must've rather wanted to be good than not just being bad. And I'll look forward to those non-conference wins over Emmaus Bible College (not D3) Bethany Lutheran (378th) and Skidmore (164th) until they decide that not-bad isn't a replacement for good.

Sorry. That all sounded extremely cynical and like I had an axe to grind. Who knows. I just might. I will enjoy the WIAC from afar and keep my comments to myself from here on out. Rather I will go back to being a reader of these instead of a poster. I'm sure you'll all be heartbroken. 

[badgerwarhawk]

If everyone became a reader simply because others did not agree with their position this forum would die. 

[stoutguy]

BW-I wish you would use the word "Reader" rather than "Lurker".  Sounds less harsh.  Also, I want to go on record as  saying I am not at all offended by Hoops/Golf's comments, I think he has made some very legit points about what's going on here and as BW says, the message board would die if everyone quit talking because their feelings were hurt.  Keep talking guys. 

[badgerwarhawk]

Ok, for you I'll change it SG.  For the record I don't have a problem with H&G expressing his opinion of Eddie, who I actually really like, either. 

Of all the visiting coaches Eddie is unquestionably the friendliest.  He actually comes to the table and shakes hands and greets all of us before the game.  None of the other coaches currently or in the past decade plus that I've worked the table have done that.  Say what you will about Eddie but he treats us with respect and patience.  That's good enough for me. 

[Gregory Sager]

I don't have an answer for you, but Pat interviewed Andrist at the D3hoops Classic in Vegas in December and they touched on this a bit. Give it a listen: https://youtu.be/urdLyoiimUo

For a decade and a half now I've read dozens and dozens of WIAC room comments about Eddie Andrist, both good and bad. But I had never had the chance to hear him speak until I watched this clip.

He comes across as articulate, forthright, and likeable. Granted, it's only fourteen minutes in front of a camera with a mic stuck in his face out of a lifetime spent coaching basketball, but he made a good impression on me.

[Dave 'd-mac' McHugh]

I don't have an answer for you, but Pat interviewed Andrist at the D3hoops Classic in Vegas in December and they touched on this a bit. Give it a listen: https://youtu.be/urdLyoiimUo

I have seen Stout in person and they aren't a bad team... which speaks to just how good the league really is if they struggle to win in it. Furthermore, the top of the league has been some of the best in the country for a number of years, but it can't be expected to be at the top every single year.

Very good points. And thanks for sharing the interview. It was good. (New question that arose at 12:03 of the interview Eddie mentions "Dark" over at UW-GB - who is that? Does Darner have a knickname?)

I guess this answers the Stout quandary for me - everyone over there must be content with not being BAD. You don't have to be good at Stout as long as you aren't bad. Oshkosh (Men and Women) and Eau Claire must've rather wanted to be good than not just being bad. And I'll look forward to those non-conference wins over Emmaus Bible College (not D3) Bethany Lutheran (378th) and Skidmore (164th) until they decide that not-bad isn't a replacement for good.

Sorry. That all sounded extremely cynical and like I had an axe to grind. Who knows. I just might. I will enjoy the WIAC from afar and keep my comments to myself from here on out. Rather I will go back to being a reader of these instead of a poster. I'm sure you'll all be heartbroken. 

I find it interesting you picked out Skidmore which many who have more of a national scope will tell you isn't a bad team. They are dealing with injuries this year especially to their top player(s) from a squad that was picked to win their conference after being a shot away from being in the Sweet 16 last season (nearly upsetting Johns Hopkins in the process). Skidmore is a very good team who just is struggling right now. They also were a team that was scheduled FOR Stout when they came to the D3hoops.com Classic. Interestingly, the other game was against Pacific Lutheran Heading into the season, many would have considered the Skidmore game a tougher and better opponent than PLU.

What am I getting at? You can't judge teams just looking at their record(s). You spotted Skidmore because they don't have a great record, but did you look at the previous record?

It does sound like you have an axe to grind when you pull teams up with bad records and not the whole story to make your case while also ignoring the good games (based on good records) on the schedule you may be looking at at face value.

[AppletonRocks]

That darn axe to grind can be downright scary. 

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=946PptzWiHU

[Gregory Sager]

I don't have an answer for you, but Pat interviewed Andrist at the D3hoops Classic in Vegas in December and they touched on this a bit. Give it a listen: https://youtu.be/urdLyoiimUo

I have seen Stout in person and they aren't a bad team... which speaks to just how good the league really is if they struggle to win in it. Furthermore, the top of the league has been some of the best in the country for a number of years, but it can't be expected to be at the top every single year.

Very good points. And thanks for sharing the interview. It was good. (New question that arose at 12:03 of the interview Eddie mentions "Dark" over at UW-GB - who is that? Does Darner have a knickname?)

I guess this answers the Stout quandary for me - everyone over there must be content with not being BAD. You don't have to be good at Stout as long as you aren't bad. Oshkosh (Men and Women) and Eau Claire must've rather wanted to be good than not just being bad. And I'll look forward to those non-conference wins over Emmaus Bible College (not D3) Bethany Lutheran (378th) and Skidmore (164th) until they decide that not-bad isn't a replacement for good.

Sorry. That all sounded extremely cynical and like I had an axe to grind. Who knows. I just might. I will enjoy the WIAC from afar and keep my comments to myself from here on out. Rather I will go back to being a reader of these instead of a poster. I'm sure you'll all be heartbroken. 

I find it interesting you picked out Skidmore which many who have more of a national scope will tell you isn't a bad team. They are dealing with injuries this year especially to their top player(s) from a squad that was picked to win their conference after being a shot away from being in the Sweet 16 last season (nearly upsetting Johns Hopkins in the process). Skidmore is a very good team who just is struggling right now. They also were a team that was scheduled FOR Stout when they came to the D3hoops.com Classic. Interestingly, the other game was against Pacific Lutheran Heading into the season, many would have considered the Skidmore game a tougher and better opponent than PLU.

What am I getting at? You can't judge teams just looking at their record(s). You spotted Skidmore because they don't have a great record, but did you look at the previous record?

It does sound like you have an axe to grind when you pull teams up with bad records and not the whole story to make your case while also ignoring the good games (based on good records) on the schedule you may be looking at at face value.

I thought that it was interesting that H&G cited Skidmore's #164 Massey rating as an indictment of UW-Stout. H&G, I'm not sure if you realize this, but there are 419 teams in D3 men's basketball. That puts Skidmore inside the division's top 40 percent. No, the Skiddies aren't the be-all and end-all of opponents on anybody's sked, but you're not helping your case by lumping them together with the Emmaus Bibles and Bethany Lutherans of the world.

[Mr. Ypsi]

I don't have an answer for you, but Pat interviewed Andrist at the D3hoops Classic in Vegas in December and they touched on this a bit. Give it a listen: https://youtu.be/urdLyoiimUo

I have seen Stout in person and they aren't a bad team... which speaks to just how good the league really is if they struggle to win in it. Furthermore, the top of the league has been some of the best in the country for a number of years, but it can't be expected to be at the top every single year.

Very good points. And thanks for sharing the interview. It was good. (New question that arose at 12:03 of the interview Eddie mentions "Dark" over at UW-GB - who is that? Does Darner have a knickname?)

I guess this answers the Stout quandary for me - everyone over there must be content with not being BAD. You don't have to be good at Stout as long as you aren't bad. Oshkosh (Men and Women) and Eau Claire must've rather wanted to be good than not just being bad. And I'll look forward to those non-conference wins over Emmaus Bible College (not D3) Bethany Lutheran (378th) and Skidmore (164th) until they decide that not-bad isn't a replacement for good.

Sorry. That all sounded extremely cynical and like I had an axe to grind. Who knows. I just might. I will enjoy the WIAC from afar and keep my comments to myself from here on out. Rather I will go back to being a reader of these instead of a poster. I'm sure you'll all be heartbroken. 

I find it interesting you picked out Skidmore which many who have more of a national scope will tell you isn't a bad team. They are dealing with injuries this year especially to their top player(s) from a squad that was picked to win their conference after being a shot away from being in the Sweet 16 last season (nearly upsetting Johns Hopkins in the process). Skidmore is a very good team who just is struggling right now. They also were a team that was scheduled FOR Stout when they came to the D3hoops.com Classic. Interestingly, the other game was against Pacific Lutheran Heading into the season, many would have considered the Skidmore game a tougher and better opponent than PLU.

What am I getting at? You can't judge teams just looking at their record(s). You spotted Skidmore because they don't have a great record, but did you look at the previous record?

It does sound like you have an axe to grind when you pull teams up with bad records and not the whole story to make your case while also ignoring the good games (based on good records) on the schedule you may be looking at at face value.

I thought that it was interesting that H&G cited Skidmore's #164 Massey rating as an indictment of UW-Stout. H&G, I'm not sure if you realize this, but there are 419 teams in D3 men's basketball. That puts Skidmore inside the division's top 40 percent. No, the Skiddies aren't the be-all and end-all of opponents on anybody's sked, but you're not helping your case by lumping them together with the Emmaus Bibles and Bethany Lutherans of the world.

Note also that Skidmore defeated Wooster.  (Granted, that is not as big a deal this season as it usually is, but still ...)

[BanditUWSP]

Frank O'Brien, who was Athletic Director at UWSP for 20 years is back on the job in an interim basis.  He is truly a good guy and those of us who know him are glad to have him back, if only for a short time.

[Greek Tragedy]

Frank O'Brien, who was Athletic Director at UWSP for 20 years is back on the job in an interim basis.  He is truly a good guy and those of us who know him are glad to have him back, if only for a short time.

Wow! Hope he stays awhile! Say hi to him for me next time you see him.

[John Gleich]

Frank is such a great guy. UWSP is in good hands (if only in the interim!)

Craziness in the WIAC...

Team	Overall	WIAC	+/-
River Falls	11-6	5-1	+2
Oshkosh	11-6	4-2	+1
La Crosse	10-7	4-2	+1
Whitewater	12-5	3-3	0
Eau Claire	10-7	3-3	0
Platteville	9-8	3-3	0
Stevens Point	9-8	2-4	-1
Stout	4-12	0-6	-3

For the +/-, you get +1 for a road win and -1 for a home loss.