MBB: Wisconsin Intercollegiate Athletic Conference

[wcbsas]

UWSP and UWW have been generally been the conference measuring stick over the last decade or so, but both are just happening to have down years this season. Thus, it's hard for me to measure how good the teams in front of them, like UWL and UWEC, might be. I think it would be great, and neat, to find out if the Eagles and/or Blugolds could get a shot in the NCAA tourney...

Why do you think that is?  I would assume to most on this board that it is a surprise that both are down.

[bleedpurple]

UWSP and UWW have been generally been the conference measuring stick over the last decade or so, but both are just happening to have down years this season. Thus, it's hard for me to measure how good the teams in front of them, like UWL and UWEC, might be. I think it would be great, and neat, to find out if the Eagles and/or Blugolds could get a shot in the NCAA tourney...

Why do you think that is?  I would assume to most on this board that it is a surprise that both are down.

For UW-W, I believe they sit where they do because of inconsistency. In my opinion, the two biggest factors in their inconsistency has been:
1. An entirely new group of guys needing learn each other and how to play together.
2. Inconsistent performance by some of the players. This is obvious, but I mention it to recognize that ALL the inconsistency can't be explained away because of the "new to each other" deal.

I believe UW-W is better than when the season began. None of their six conference losses have been by more than six points. I believe moving Trinson White to more of a point forward position will continue to add to Whitewater's offensive consistency because he can get to the hole or kick it out to give another player a good look if the defense collapses. He's a pretty explosive player. 

It's understandable why many may not be real high on UW-W's chances in the conference tourney. They haven't proven they can beat LaCrosse, River Falls, or Eau Claire. But I wouldn't write them off completely. They aren't that far away and they have a coach who knows how to have them ready for the big games.

[badgerwarhawk]

White also sees the floor pretty well.  In the two games since the move White has had 13 assists. 

While I suspect Staege will be the conference's player of the year because 1. he's a darn good, deserving player and 2. he's played in the league four years it's hard for me to imagine that White wouldn't at least be in the conversation.  Only playing in the league for a year and the team's maddening inconsistency isn't going to help his cause.



 

[Just the stats]

John Gleich asks:
Anybody have any idea when the last time was a conference team hit 100 pts in a conference game?

Maybe it has happened more often than it seems... but it feels rare.

Here's something to chew on a for a while. Check these WIAC team records, from the WIAC site stats:

HIGHEST SCORING AVERAGE
1) 97.4 -- Platteville, 1990-91
2) 94.3 -- Whitewater, 1988-89
3) 90.3 -- Oshkosh, 1967-68
4) 89.7 -- Whitewater, 1967-68
5) 89.6 -- Stout, 1968-69
6) 89.5 -- Whitewater, 1987-88
7) 87.5 -- Eau Claire, 1971-72
8) 86.0 -- Stevens Point, 1967-68
9) 85.9 -- Whitewater, 1993-94
10) 85.6 -- Eau Claire, 1970-71

When was the three point play adopted? Mid-1980s?

What makes the #1 spot on here remarkable is that it was a Bo Ryan-coached team. Not exactly the methodical approach he was known for.

[John Gleich]

John Gleich asks:
Anybody have any idea when the last time was a conference team hit 100 pts in a conference game?

Maybe it has happened more often than it seems... but it feels rare.

Here's something to chew on a for a while. Check these WIAC team records, from the WIAC site stats:

HIGHEST SCORING AVERAGE
1) 97.4 -- Platteville, 1990-91
2) 94.3 -- Whitewater, 1988-89
3) 90.3 -- Oshkosh, 1967-68
4) 89.7 -- Whitewater, 1967-68
5) 89.6 -- Stout, 1968-69
6) 89.5 -- Whitewater, 1987-88
7) 87.5 -- Eau Claire, 1971-72
8) 86.0 -- Stevens Point, 1967-68
9) 85.9 -- Whitewater, 1993-94
10) 85.6 -- Eau Claire, 1970-71

When was the three point play adopted? Mid-1980s?

What makes the #1 spot on here remarkable is that it was a Bo Ryan-coached team. Not exactly the methodical approach he was known for.

This is a good point... it makes me wonder what it was about this team that caused a shift in method.

Perhaps it was additional capabilities by those on the roster?

[John Gleich]

UWSP and UWW have been generally been the conference measuring stick over the last decade or so, but both are just happening to have down years this season. Thus, it's hard for me to measure how good the teams in front of them, like UWL and UWEC, might be. I think it would be great, and neat, to find out if the Eagles and/or Blugolds could get a shot in the NCAA tourney...

Why do you think that is?  I would assume to most on this board that it is a surprise that both are down.

Both teams had been led by a core group of players for about 3 years... and they've used a lot of the minutes. Thus, younger guys haven't gotten experience like they would have with more balance (though, on the other side of the coin, with more balance, there may have been fewer trophies...).


The same thing happened in 2005-06 with UWSP. They had a down year, in large part because guys were having to step into new roles.

That's honestly what makes last year's run by Point so remarkable... You graduate 2 All-Americans and an all-conference big guy... and then turn around the next year and put together a remarkable second half of the year and win the national title convincingly.

[badgerwarhawk]

John Gleich asks:
Anybody have any idea when the last time was a conference team hit 100 pts in a conference game?

Maybe it has happened more often than it seems... but it feels rare.

Here's something to chew on a for a while. Check these WIAC team records, from the WIAC site stats:

HIGHEST SCORING AVERAGE
1) 97.4 -- Platteville, 1990-91
2) 94.3 -- Whitewater, 1988-89
3) 90.3 -- Oshkosh, 1967-68
4) 89.7 -- Whitewater, 1967-68
5) 89.6 -- Stout, 1968-69
6) 89.5 -- Whitewater, 1987-88
7) 87.5 -- Eau Claire, 1971-72
8) 86.0 -- Stevens Point, 1967-68
9) 85.9 -- Whitewater, 1993-94
10) 85.6 -- Eau Claire, 1970-71

When was the three point play adopted? Mid-1980s?

What makes the #1 spot on here remarkable is that it was a Bo Ryan-coached team. Not exactly the methodical approach he was known for.

This is a good point... it makes me wonder what it was about this team that caused a shift in method.

Perhaps it was additional capabilities by those on the roster?

What's also interesting to me is that it's the most current team on the list.  So we haven't had a team who's average scoring is in the top 10 in the league history fpr about 25 years.  Right now we lead the league with a 77.9 average which is roughly 8 points fewer than the 10th ranked team. 

The league is down and I think one reason is that we aren't getting the same level of player that we've had in the past.  Not that we aren't getting good players, we are, just not as good.   I remember a time when there were legitimate NBA level players in our league.  Now we haven't got a player who could play in the D league and we haven't for some time.   

[AppletonRocks]

What is wrong with defense? 

Oshkosh, as an example,  shut down Eau Claire and LaCrosse (except the last 4-5 possessions) and that got them their wins. 

If you want to see scoring, watch the first quarter of the NBA All Star Game.   

[bulk19]

I preface this remark by saying I have not seen UWW play this year, but I agree with the points made by bleed and badgerwarhawk that it could be consistency, and roster turnover.

I surmise developing a cohesiveness and familiarity among the players has been a factor, although probably to a lesser degree as the season goes on. The Warhawks lost all five starters from last year, and returned only five from last year's team. At the start of the season, there were about a dozen newcomers to the roster, including 7 transfers...

But as we come down the stretch to this crazy conference season, Point and UWW have been around the block a few times the last decade or so. That's why I suggested that whomever wins the conference might not be the team that wins the WIAC tourney to go to the big dance. I would not be surprised if it is the Warhawks or the Pointers, who are lurking...

[havej]

BW - not that it matters but Staege has been on UWL's roster for 3 years.  Believed he transferred from EC where he was playing football.

And regarding your comment regarding the talent level, totally agree but as I have posted before, I don't think there are as many transfers from D2 and D1 schools as in prior years - that makes a huge difference in a D3 league.

[John Gleich]

John Gleich asks:
Anybody have any idea when the last time was a conference team hit 100 pts in a conference game?

Maybe it has happened more often than it seems... but it feels rare.

Here's something to chew on a for a while. Check these WIAC team records, from the WIAC site stats:

HIGHEST SCORING AVERAGE
1) 97.4 -- Platteville, 1990-91
2) 94.3 -- Whitewater, 1988-89
3) 90.3 -- Oshkosh, 1967-68
4) 89.7 -- Whitewater, 1967-68
5) 89.6 -- Stout, 1968-69
6) 89.5 -- Whitewater, 1987-88
7) 87.5 -- Eau Claire, 1971-72
8) 86.0 -- Stevens Point, 1967-68
9) 85.9 -- Whitewater, 1993-94
10) 85.6 -- Eau Claire, 1970-71

When was the three point play adopted? Mid-1980s?

What makes the #1 spot on here remarkable is that it was a Bo Ryan-coached team. Not exactly the methodical approach he was known for.

This is a good point... it makes me wonder what it was about this team that caused a shift in method.

Perhaps it was additional capabilities by those on the roster?

What's also interesting to me is that it's the most current team on the list.  So we haven't had a team who's average scoring is in the top 10 in the league history fpr about 25 years.  Right now we lead the league with a 77.9 average which is roughly 8 points fewer than the 10th ranked team. 

The league is down and I think one reason is that we aren't getting the same level of player that we've had in the past.  Not that we aren't getting good players, we are, just not as good.   I remember a time when there were legitimate NBA level players in our league.  Now we haven't got a player who could play in the D league and we haven't for some time.   

I definitely think there's something to this. Between Wisconsin being over-recruited by mid-level D-I's and D-II's from other states to kids on AAU teams being told that they're superstars... so to go to a Juco and try to hit the big time instead of landing at a school from day 1 of their freshman year, fewer kids are filtering through to the WIAC.

But, interestingly, the conference has had arguably its most successful run of years, at least in terms of championships, ever (that's actually an interesting discussion... which was best? 80's... with Whitewater winning D-III championships and Point going far in the NAIA? Platteville in the 90's? Point/WW over the last 11 years?)

I guess the question is this: Did they do it with home-grown talent or transfers?

Point's success last year was largely with 4-year players (Pelkofer transferred from Northern Michigan after 1 year). The year before, Hass transferred from Augustana (SD) and Heuer from UWGB. Perhaps you could say that Ty Tillema was a result of a transfer (would he have come to Point if Dan hadn't transferred here?)

If you go back to 2010, Dan Tillema was a transfer from Minnesota-Duluth and Ross Forman was in SP for one year from Loyola (Chi). From 03-04 and 04-05, Kyle Grusczynski transferred from Wisconsin and I transferred from Michigan Tech.


What about Whitewater's players? It seems (merely perception... I don't know for certain) that Pat Miller has done very well for himself in giving kids a second chance, whether they've had previous issues at a different place or just wanted to come closer to home (not intentionally trying to make this a negative, on the contrary, actually).

[bulk19]

I'm taking the 1980s as the best decade for WIAC/WSUC hoops, when UWEC was a bigger factor...
WW, Point, EC, Platteville all were near the top, with LAX having a few good seasons early on, too...
(I know the Blugolds were known for bringing in a jucco or two when I was in school in there in the 80s...  )

Here's a take today on scoring, which is down all over:
http://www.chron.com/sports/college-basketball-men/article/Men-s-college-basketball-scoring-hitting-new-lows-4244885.php

Someone refresh my foggy memory. How long were quarters back in the day, before college hoops went to halves? Did they play more or less minutes then?

[John Gleich]

I'm taking the 1980s as the best decade for WIAC/WSUC hoops, when UWEC was a bigger factor...
WW, Point, EC, Platteville all were near the top, with LAX having a few good seasons early on, too...
(I know the Blugolds were known for bringing in a jucco or two when I was in school in there in the 80s...  )

Here's a take today on scoring, which is down all over:
http://www.chron.com/sports/college-basketball-men/article/Men-s-college-basketball-scoring-hitting-new-lows-4244885.php

Someone refresh my foggy memory. How long were quarters back in the day, before college hoops went to halves? Did they play more or less minutes then?

That story isn't recent.... 2/1/13

http://www.chron.com/search/?action=search&channel=sports%2Fcollege-basketball&inlineLink=1&searchindex=gsa&query=%22Mark+Montgomery%22

[bulk19]

Good catch, JG; it was not from today...
MIAC readers who listen to Garage Logic will realize I was "close enough," though... 

[John Gleich]

Good catch, JG; it was not from today...
MIAC readers who listen to Garage Logic will realize I was "close enough," though... 

I just found it strange because they changed the shot clock... And I had heard that scurrying was actually up (as designed).

Things have picked up a bit compared to a few years ago... When B1G games were in the 40's and even the 30's...