MBB: Wisconsin Intercollegiate Athletic Conference

[Gregory Sager]

Correct me if I'm wrong, but none of these are actually new allegations from last Springs report (was it spring?).  The NCAA has simply determined these collectively rise to "major violations" vs "minor violations".  Thus immediate action.

Was the length of time that the violations took place known prior to today? It seems to me that the fact that they took place over a five-year period might be what upped the ante in the eyes of the NCAA.

The d3hoops.com piece raises an important point. Given the recent D3 precedent set by the NCAA's vacating the 2013-14 Thomas More national title in women's basketball, this might be an attempt by UWSP to forestall the NCAA from doing the same thing to the Pointers' 2014-15 men's basketball title, since the same "major violations" wording was used. (I'm only a layman who is not well versed in NCAA legalese, but it appears to me that giving Sydney Moss a place to stay for a couple of months is not up to par with those four UWSP allegations in terms of severity.) I know that Pat & Co. are only speculating, but, given that the 2015 UWSP national championship took place during the period in question, that speculation that the fourth Walnut & Bronze that the Pointers own could be endangered seems like a reasonable inference.

[Dave 'd-mac' McHugh]

The Division III basketball season is back from the holiday "break" - though not much of a break for many of the teams - and with the start of the 2017 part of the schedule comes plenty to talk about. Upsets in the men's Top 25 and the shocking news at out UW-Stevens Point.

Thursday night on Hoopsville, Dave McHugh tries to get everything wrapped up in the discarded Christmas wrapping left behind. Bob Semling suspended, Geneseo women deal with another tragedy, Top 25 teams sputtering as conference season heats up, and teams trying to make an impact from under the radar.\

Hoopsville hits the air at 7:00 PM ET. You can tune in live, watch it on Facebook Live, or catch-up on Demand here: http://www.d3hoops.com/hoopsville/archives/2016-17/jan5

Tonight's guest list (in order of appearance):
- Daley Ryman, Sports Director, NewsChannel 7 (WSAW) - UWSP Suspensions
- Cheri Harrer, Baldwin Wallace women's coach
- Scott Hemer, SUNY Geneseo women's coach
- Chad Dickman, Hood men's coach
- Eric Bridgeland, No. 2 Whitman men's coach

You can also tune into the podcast(s) after the show has aired:
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iTunes: https://itunes.apple.com/us/podcast/hoopsville/id1059517087

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[Mr. Ypsi]

It will be interesting to see how the UWSP team responds to the sanctions.  With no postseason to look forward to, will they go into the toilet, or will they take an "us vs. the world" attitude and be even more dangerous, trying to wreck OTHER teams' postseason hopes?

[badgerwarhawk]

I'll bet that even the implication that this Warhawks squad is going to be the greatest UW-Whitewater D3 team of all time is enough to make BW do a facepalm.

It did.  Plus I knew it would cause all kinds of comments here and as soon as we lost, which honestly I knew would happen sooner or later, the forum's horse's ass would be sure to rub it our face.  Even though not one single WARHAWKS fan had bought into it. 

My all time greatest WARHAWKS team is the 1989 National Championship team.  Elbert Gordon, Ricky Spicer, Jeff Seifriz, Pat Miller, Duane Vance and I've forgotten some others that made significant contributions.  The team holds the single season wins record with 29.  They only lost twice and averaged 94 points a game.  They were just so much fun to watch.  I've got the national championship DVD and I watch it two or three times a year.  Ya, I know I need to get a real life.  But at my age I doubt that will happen.

[stoutguy]

I'll bet that even the implication that this Warhawks squad is going to be the greatest UW-Whitewater D3 team of all time is enough to make BW do a facepalm.

It did.  Plus I knew it would cause all kinds of comments here and as soon as we lost, which honestly I knew would happen sooner or later, the forum's horse's ass would be sure to rub it our face.  Even though not one single WARHAWKS fan had bought into it. 

My all time greatest WARHAWKS team is the 1989 National Championship team.  Elbert Gordon, Ricky Spicer, Jeff Seifriz, Pat Miller, Duane Vance and I've forgotten some others that made significant contributions.  The team holds the single season wins record with 29.  They only lost twice and averaged 94 points a game.  They were just so much fun to watch.  I've got the national championship DVD and I watch it two or three times a year.  Ya, I know I need to get a real life. But at my age I doubt that will happen.

[/b]

But you still bowl, don't you, BW?

[Just the stats]

My all time greatest WARHAWKS team is the 1989 National Championship team.  Elbert Gordon, Ricky Spicer, Jeff Seifriz, Pat Miller, Duane Vance and I've forgotten some others that made significant contributions.  The team holds the single season wins record with 29.  They only lost twice and averaged 94 points a game.  They were just so much fun to watch.  I've got the national championship DVD and I watch it two or three times a year.  Ya, I know I need to get a real life.  But at my age I doubt that will happen.

What makes the 29 wins even more impressive is the league also had a 29-win team in UW-Eau Claire and a 25-win team in UW-Platteville. Eau Claire made it to the semifinals of the NAIA tournament that year, too.

[iwumichigander]

Correct me if I'm wrong, but none of these are actually new allegations from last Springs report (was it spring?).  The NCAA has simply determined these collectively rise to "major violations" vs "minor violations".  Thus immediate action.

#2 regarding having recruits play illegal open gyms alongside current players was new news to me, but maybe I just missed it before.

It seems to me like Darron Montgomery, the Athletics Director at the time, should face some kind of sanction as well, but that's not how the NCAA works.

JB - these are just univeristy self imposed sanctions not NCAA as yet.  IMHO? The fourth charge likely has the AD, UWSP compliance officer and president in some degree of hot water.  The self-imposed sanctions are usually an attempt to lessen forthcoming NCAA sanctions ( these will be harsher than the self-imposed).

[AppletonRocks]

Do violations like this allow players to transfer freely, to someplace like say, Whitewater? 

[Dave 'd-mac' McHugh]

Correct me if I'm wrong, but none of these are actually new allegations from last Springs report (was it spring?).  The NCAA has simply determined these collectively rise to "major violations" vs "minor violations".  Thus immediate action.

#2 regarding having recruits play illegal open gyms alongside current players was new news to me, but maybe I just missed it before.

It seems to me like Darron Montgomery, the Athletics Director at the time, should face some kind of sanction as well, but that's not how the NCAA works.

JB - these are just univeristy self imposed sanctions not NCAA as yet.  IMHO? The fourth charge likely has the AD, UWSP compliance officer and president in some degree of hot water.  The self-imposed sanctions are usually an attempt to lessen forthcoming NCAA sanctions ( these will be harsher than the self-imposed).

Yeah - nothing in today's news is from the NCAA... that is coming... and we still may have to wait awhile for that. We shall see what the NCAA does. UWSP has now come out with two different sets of self-imposed punishments... one minor; second major. The NCAA could be fine with those and maybe add some usual, minor, stuff like a fine, extra compliance seminars, etc. They also could say they want further punishments added and people like Montgomery could easily be sanctioned. But we simply don't know right now.

Do violations like this allow players to transfer freely, to someplace like say, Whitewater? 

Very, very common in this cases, though for most Division III it doesn't matter since the division as a free-release system - students can release themselves. I can't remember if the WIAC has a system in place where to play at another WIAC school, the coach has to sign off... but if they do, in a lot of these cases those are usually waived. The students have a certain amount of time to make that decision.

[Greek Tragedy]

I thought you had to sit out a year to transfer to another WIAC school. Not sure if there are exceptions.

[Dave 'd-mac' McHugh]

I thought you had to sit out a year to transfer to another WIAC school. Not sure if there are exceptions.

There might be. I just can't remember those rules off the top of my head. Most places, not the case. If it does exist (as it does at D1), usually when a school has been significantly punished to affect the student-athletes, they are allowed to go elsewhere without any further punishment or delay (at least at D1). I could see the conference doing that IF it was warranted (we have no idea if it is warranted right now).

[houdini]

Have to give a shout out to Stout.  They're tied for first place after breaking their modest 34 game conference losing streak.

[Pat Coleman]

I know that Pat & Co. are only speculating, but, given that the 2015 UWSP national championship took place during the period in question, that speculation that the fourth Walnut & Bronze that the Pointers own could be endangered seems like a reasonable inference.

Reasonable inference -- exactly what I was hoping I was making. Thanks for the backup.

[John Gleich]

UW-Stevens Point

As a former UWSP player who played under Jack Bennett (with Bob Semling as the top assistant for two years) and who was a member of two of Stevens Point's four national titles, I'm very familiar with the program and how it is run. I also know the men who have run and are currently running the program.

However, I didn't play on a Bob Semling-led team. I do know dozens of other alums who did and they say that these allegations have no merit. I believe them because they were there. The current AD was not. The school administration was not. The NCAA was not. That's all that I really can say about it.

I do, however, have an issue with a word that was used repeatedly used in the interviews. Please know, though, Dave, that I'm trying my best to be fair and level headed under what has become an unfortunate situation.

But I believe that you did, at the very least, misspeak. (Note: I wrote this post before hearing Alex Richard's comments on Hoopsville. That they are nearly identical should only reiterate the level to which former players know what did and did not happen with how the program was run and what activities took place both in and out of season).

In the interviews, you talked about out-of-season practices. Practices is the word that I have an issue with. The implication of "practices" is that Bob Semling had his whistle in his mouth and was running team drills in September and in April. Actively coaching. Stopping play mid-stream to teach our instruct.

But the four violations don't mention practice.

If practices had occurred, it would have been a major NCAA violation. But it didn't happen.

Further, no practices were conducted with recruits. That allegation makes no sense. UWSP practices are held in the mid-afternoon, while prospective student athletes would be in school (at the very least) or at their own practices. And, as stated, practices only occur during the season...

The whole thing began with a gutless, anonymous letter that unfortunately wasn't addressed by the administration. This (unsigned) letter accused the basketball team of practicing prior to Oct 15th. The only things that occur prior to OCT 15th when I played was university conditioning class that did not include any balls whatsoever that is open to all students (and a few non-basketball players tried to do it but I don't remember then being able to finish it), and player-led open gyms.

Based upon all the conversations that I've had with former players who played after me, that's all that had continued to happen.

But, like I said, the Chancellor didn't respond to the October 2015 letter that accused the program of practicing early.. And because of this, the administration ultimately has over-reached to compensate for it.

As an alum, I had thought highly of the administration up until now. Based on their actions (or inaction), I think that they may need to be replaced. Had Chancellor Patterson addressed the issue when it initially came across his desk, then this likely wouldn't be the issue that it is today. It was only after that letter was forwarded to the NCAA that Patterson responded and the investigation dug into. If UWSP had self-reported violations, then it's entirely likely that this may have stopped at the initial practice relinquishment.

NCAA letter
http://www.wisinfo.com/stevens-point/pdf/index.php?x=11

Patterson's reprimand:
http://www.wisinfo.com/stevens-point/pdf/index.php?x=19

UWSP investigation report:
http://www.wisinfo.com/stevens-point/pdf/index.php?x=18


And, finally, you mentioned that Jack Bennett had issues with practices. This also is, at best, inaccurate.

http://www.stevenspointjournal.com/story/sports/2016/06/23/ex-coach-uwsps-violations-akin-littering/86210262/

I'm trying to give the benefit of the doubt for an incident that happened a dozen years ago.

Coach Bennett observed a preseason, player-led, open gym. This was a violation and, as I recall, we had two player-led practices after Oct 15th as a result, with the suspension being handed down by AD Frank O'Brien.

[badgerwarhawk]

I thought you had to sit out a year to transfer to another WIAC school. Not sure if there are exceptions.

My understanding is that if you've been in a program for one year you can transfer without sitting out.  But if you've been in that program two years or longer you may have to sit out.  I say "may" because I believe that can be waived if your coach agrees to it.  That's under normal circumstances which certainly aren't the case here. 

John, just so I understand.  You're problem is with Dave's use of the word "practice."  You're not denying that the allegations, whatever you choose to call it, did in fact happen.  I respect Bob Semling and from my brief interactions with he seems to be a decent guy but he had to aware that these things were going on when they went on for such a long time and he had to realize he had an obligation to put a stop to it.  Had he chose to do that there never would have been a complaint to begin with.  You can deflect the blame to the AD and administration but the bottom line is that this is on him.